Pick 3 of 4

[Crow]

If you had a sorcerer with 3 7th-level spells, which of the following would you select to have (or rather, which one would you not select), and why? This is assuming that all of your other spell choices are already fixed.

Greater Scrying

Greater Teleport

Magnificent Mansion

Spell Turning

I'm trying to make the call on this one. Thanks in advance for any help.

[rollfrenzy]

Get rid of the mansion, because with the others you can find and get to a safe place without it.

[AKA_Bait]

Well, do you have regular Scrying? Do you have Rope Trick? If you have either one, I forgoe the higher version since you could still do the effect, although not as well. If you have both, I'd skip the MMM for mechanical purposes but the scrying for character purposes probably (who doesn't want a mansion on demand?). If you have neither I guess I'd take the MMM, but it's close.

[Balkash]

I dont know, if you have all the tools for scrying, it might be helpful, but if you are just going into a dungeon and exploring, the mansion might be a nice resting place. otherwise, i agree with the rope trick instead of the mansion and the scrying instead of greater scrying.

[triforcel]

If you're really only choosing between those, I'd forgo Greater Scrying. It's handy and all, but the focus for it is costly and awkward to carry around.

[Crow]

Well, do you have regular Scrying? Do you have Rope Trick? If you have either one, I forgoe the higher version since you could still do the effect, although not as well. If you have both, I'd skip the MMM for mechanical purposes but the scrying for character purposes probably (who doesn't want a mansion on demand?). If you have neither I guess I'd take the MMM, but it's close.

I wouldn't elect to choose them if other options weren't out. So it has to be these spells or nothing.

I have so far ranked them thus;

Greater Teleport (for ease of use, and for life-saving/tactical uses)

Greater Scrying (because I think a strong divination spell can come in handy for many things, and also because it doesn't require the annoying focus that the basic version does)

Spell Turning (because my defenses could use a boost, especially against some of the save or die/sucks that I am not optimized to resist...unfortunately it isn't 100% 1d4+6, so maybe as few as 7 levels of protection)

Magnificent Mansion (While not directly applicable to my survival, gives me a place to rest in pretty close to perfect safety, with food and such and servants which is just cool)

Are my rankings not quite informed? Does anybody have reasons why I should change them?

[AKA_Bait]

I wouldn't elect to choose them if other options weren't out. So it has to be these spells or nothing.

Um, I wasn't suggesting other options... I was asking what lower level spells this sorcerer has as that would inform the decision of what to take... or does this character only have 3 7th level spells and no other spells known?

[Guildorn Tanaleth]

If you're really only choosing between those, I'd forgo Greater Scrying. It's handy and all, but the focus for it is costly and awkward to carry around.

Greater Scrying doesn't have a focus....

[triforcel]

Ah. I missed that. Strikes me as kind of odd though.

[Emperor Tippy]

Greater Teleport is a must have. So it's really a choice between the other 3.

Oh, is there a reason that you can only choose between those 4 spells? Because if you can I would pick up Limited Wish.

Out of the 4 spells you listed though I would drop Greater Scrying.
Spell Turning is quite nice.
MMM gives you a nice place to rest that is pretty much immune to attack.

It's much easier to just grab a few scrolls of Greater Scrying for when you need it.

[Crow]

Um, I wasn't suggesting other options... I was asking what lower level spells this sorcerer has as that would inform the decision of what to take... or does this character only have 3 7th level spells and no other spells known?

Sorry, what I was saying was that I would not be choosing between these specific spells if my other spell choices weren't already set. So no, he doesn't have rope trick or basic scrying. He also doesn't have basic teleport, though in the case of that spell, greater teleport is a signifigant improvement.

What mechanical reasons would you cite for dropping MMM?

[Kurald Galain]

I'd say Greater Scrying isn't worth it, as it doesn't do anything important that regular Scrying doesn't. Also, I'd avoid the Mansion on grounds of it being a cliche (a highly stylish cliche, nonetheless).

[Yami]

I think mechanically, they were mentioning that rope trick should suffice in place of MMM. I personally would drop Greater Scrying, because I cannot see why you couldn't just get someone else to scry for you.

That and I tend to specialize and ban divination at whim.

[daggaz]

I think mechanically, they were mentioning that rope trick should suffice in place of MMM. I personally would drop Greater Scrying, because I cannot see why you couldn't just get someone else to scry for you.

That and I tend to specialize and ban divination at whim.

Heh, read the SRD much? You arent allowed to ban divination. But houserules are houserules..

[Mr. Friendly]

Eh, honestly I'd pitch Spell Turning or MMM.

MMM over Spell Turning, since you could just as easily buy scrolls of it or a wand of rope trick.

[Illiterate Scribe]

Ban spell-turning. Properly applied, the other two should obviate your need for it.

[Draz74]

I'd drop the other three before I'd drop spell turning. Unless your DM never throws NPC spellcasters at you (even though they're about the toughest things he can throw at you for their CR).

[Crow]

Ban spell-turning. Properly applied, the other two should obviate your need for it.

Could you elaborate more on this. I'm quite interested.

[Thrawn183]

I think he means not being surprised, because you scry on EVERYTHING, and figuring out ways around stuff that either doesn't involve combat or basically doesn't involve anybody getting a spell off on you.

Personally... I've never had a DM who was very lenient with scrying, so I'd drop that one, and spell turning is just devilishly fun anyway: its about the best combination of offense and defense in a single spell that I can think of.

[Crow]

I think he means not being surprised, because you scry on EVERYTHING, and figuring out ways around stuff that either doesn't involve combat or basically doesn't involve anybody getting a spell off on you.

Personally... I've never had a DM who was very lenient with scrying, so I'd drop that one, and spell turning is just devilishly fun anyway: its about the best combination of offense and defense in a single spell that I can think of.

I think I agree with you. Scrying seems to be something that I couldn't get to work in-game. There is no way I can scry on everything, so there is always a chance that I might be caught unaware anyways.

So for my lvl 7 spells, I think I'm going to go with;

Greater Teleport
Magnificent Mansion
Spell Turning

[AKA_Bait]

What mechanical reasons would you cite for dropping MMM?

Honestly it's a tough choice and it really depends upon your DM. If you have the kind of DM that throws night time encounters at you to mess up your rest then MMM is a good idea. Most DM's I've played with aren't of this type, in which case having access to scry and die tactics is really really useful.

[Crow]

Most DM's I've played with aren't of this type, in which case having access to scry and die tactics is really really useful.

We do get the more than occasional night encounter. I am sorry, but can you please explain "Scry and Die Tactics" to me?

[AKA_Bait]

Basically, the idea is that you have met some BBEG or other person/creature you intend send to the outer planes by means other than gate or planeshift. You scry on them. You see what they are doing and gain familarity with their location. If it's a good moment to strike, you teleport in, after buffing (which really you do before the scrying) and then kill them bypassing whatever other defenses they might have.

Scry and then they die.

[Crow]

Basically, the idea is that you have met some BBEG or other person/creature you intend send to the outer planes by means other than gate or planeshift. You scry on them. You see what they are doing and gain familarity with their location. If it's a good moment to strike, you teleport in, after buffing (which really you do before the scrying) and then kill them bypassing whatever other defenses they might have.

Scry and then they die.

Ah, so you must have met the threat first then. I guess I better go with Spell Turning instead.

[AKA_Bait]

Ah, so you must have met the threat first then. I guess I better go with Spell Turning instead.

or have a hair... or a working description... or a name. The check is just harder.