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    Default The Shadow Lord (3.5 base class, PEACH)

    The Shadow lord

    Few forces hold such a fascination for mortals as the powers of shadow and darkness. No matter the dangers of corruption or worse, those seeking power continually find excuses to try calling upon the power of darkness. Most such individuals eventually pay a high price for this recklessness, for only a rare few possess the knowledge and skill to wield the shadow without succumbing to its dangers. Once such group of individuals are those who call themselves the shadow lords, mystic spies and assassins who’ve achieved singular mastery over the darkness.

    Adventures: Solitary shadow lords often view adventuring as simply one more avenue towards wealth, power, or whatever other personal desires they wish to achieve. Those shadow lords who serve organizations may use adventuring as a cover to for their actions, as adventurers can show up in the most unexpected places.

    Characteristics: Shadow lords are lethal warriors, able to form a variety of uniquely lethal weapons from the material of the plane of shadow on a moment’s notice, though they lack the endurance of more conventional combatants. Furthermore, shadow lords wield a variety of mystical powers and possess significant training in conventional forms of stealth and espionage.

    Alignment: The sinister nature of the powers shadow lords wield ensures that no members of the class have a good alignment. While not all shadow lords are necessarily evil, their connection to darkness leaves an indelible taint on their very being.

    Religion:Some evil shadow lords will devote themselves to deities of darkness and others will follow more traditional roguish deities, but by and large, shadow lords are not an especially religious group.

    Background: The majority of shadow lords are trained by either individuals or small groups of experienced shadow lords who seek to pass on their unique skills. Such teachers will often seek out orphans or runaways who show potential and take them under their wings, initially providing lessons in more mundane roguish skills. Eventually, either the teachers will decide that their students are ready to learn their more arcane secrets, or they will set them out into the world as commonplace rogues.

    Races: The majority of shadow lords are human, with gnomes and half-orcs making up most of the remainder. Humans possess an oft-lamented fascination with darkness, and thus are often drawn to the path of the shadow lord should they learn of it. Most gnomes have at least a passing familiarity with the Plane of Shadow thanks to their innate talent for illusion magic, and those who give in to their darker instincts can find the shadow lord’s methods to be a natural fit. While few half-orcs possess the intellect necessary to be considered worthy of training, the occasional exceptions make for some of the most lethal members of the class.
    Shadow lords tend to be rare among savage humanoids, mostly owing to a lack of shadow lords willing to train them. There are, however, a number shadow lords that have emerged amongst the drow.

    Other Classes: Like rogues, shadow lords are able to appreciate many other classes, valuing martial classes’ ability to handle direct fights and the magical support of arcane and divine spellcasters. This appreciation isn’t always reciprocated, however; paladins in particular are likely to view shadow lords with distrust at best.

    Role: Shadow lords are far more straightforward in combat than most stealthy classes, able to conjure a variety of weapons from pure darkness to deal with whatever situation they find themselves in. Outside of combat, shadow lords excel at stealth and infiltration, both thanks to their skills and mystical abilities.

    GAME RULE INFORMATION
    Shadow lords have the following game statistics
    Abilities: Intelligence is generally the most important ability for shadow lords, as it determines the potency of many of their powers as well as how many skill points they receive. As shadow lords don’t wear armor, Dexterity is quite useful as well, as is Constitution as it dictates a shadow lord’s hit points.
    Alignment: Any nongood
    Hit Die: D6
    Starting Age: As bard
    Starting Gold: As barbarian

    Class Skills:
    Appraise, Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Disable Device, Disguise, Escape Artist, Forgery, Gather Information, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (local), Knowledge (the planes), Listen, Move Silently, Open Lock, Profession, Search, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft, Spot, Swim, Tumble, Use Rope
    Skill Points at 1st level: (6 + Intelligence Modifier) x4
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Intelligence Modifier

    Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Invocations Known
    1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Killing Darkness Strike, Shadow Arsenal (1 dice), Trapfinding 1
    2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Evasion, Skill Mastery 2
    3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 Shadow Arsenal (2 dice) 2
    4th +3 +1 +4 +4 Shadow Form 3
    5th +3 +1 +4 +4 Shadow Arsenal (3 dice) 3
    6th +4 +2 +5 +5 Lesser Invocations, Skill Mastery 4
    7th +5 +2 +5 +5 Shadow Arsenal (4 dice) 4
    8th +6 +2 +6 +6 Shadow Stride 5
    9th +6 +3 +6 +6 Shadow Arsenal (5 dice) 5
    10th +7 +3 +7 +7 Skill Mastery 6
    11th +8 +3 +7 +7 Greater Invocations, Shadow Arsenal (6 dice) 7
    12th +9 +4 +8 +8 Improved Evasion 7
    13th +9 +4 +8 +8 Shadow Arsenal (7 dice) 8
    14th +10 +4 +9 +9 Skill Mastery 8
    15th +11 +5 +9 +9 Shadow Arsenal (8 dice) 9
    16th +12 +5 +10 +10 Dark Invocations, Improved Shadow Stride 10
    17th +12 +5 +10 +10 Shadow Arsenal (9 dice) 10
    18th +13 +6 +11 +11 Skill Mastery 11
    19th +14 +6 +11 +11 Shadow Arsenal (10 dice) 11
    20th +15 +6 +12 +12 One with the Darkness 12


    Class Features

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A shadow lord is proficient with all simple weapons, as well as any weapon they create with their shadow arsenal ability (see below). They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Like arcane spellcasters, a shadow lord wearing armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure (all invocations have somatic components).

    Invocations: A shadow lord has a repertoire of attacks, defenses, and other abilities known as umbral invocations, which allow them to focus their mastery of darkness to a specific end. A shadow lord can use any invocation they know at will.
    A shadow lord’s invocations are spell-like abilities; using an invocation is therefore a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity. To avoid provoking such attacks, a shadow lord can use an invocation defensively by making a successful Concentration check. An invocation can be disrupted, just as a spell can be ruined during casting. If a shadow lord is hit by an attack while invoking, they are entitled to a Concentration check to successfully use the invocation, just as a spellcaster would be. Their invocations are subject to spell resistance unless an invocation’s description specifically states otherwise. A shadow lord’s caster level with their invocations is equal to his class level. They can dismiss any invocation as a standard action, just as a wizard can dismiss a spell.
    If an invocation allows a saving throw, its DC is 10 + the equivalent spell level + the shadow lord’s Int modifier. Since spell-like abilities are not spells, a shadow lord cannot benefit from the Spell Focus feat or from feats that let them convert or spend an arcane spell slot to produce some other effect. They can, however, benefit from the Ability Focus feat (MM 303), as well as from feats that emulate metamagic effects for spell-like abilities.
    The four grades of elemental invocations, in order of their relative power, are least, lesser, greater, and dark. A 1st-level shadow lord begins with knowledge of one least invocation, gaining access to more invocations as they attain levels. At any level when a shadow lord learns a new invocation, they can also replace an invocation he already knows with another invocation of the same or lower grade.
    Unlike other spell-like abilities, umbral invocations are subject to arcane spell failure chance as described under Weapon and Armor Proficiency above.
    Finally, just like warlocks (see Complete Arcane), shadow lords can qualify for some prestige classes usually intended for spellcasters.

    Killing Darkness Strike (Su): One of the most fundamental abilities shadow lords possess is the ability to use umbral energy to directly harm the lifeforce (or equivalent) of opponents who are unable to effectively defend themselves.
    As a standard action, the shadow lord can make a melee touch attack against an opponent who is either denied their Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not) or flanked by the shadow lord. If this attack hits, the opponent takes an amount of damage equal to 1d12 per the shadow lord’s caster level. As this attack directly targets the animating energy of its target, it is able to harm creatures that would be immune to precision damage, such as undead or constructs, though it cannot be used to harm inanimate objects.

    Shadow Arsenal (Su): A shadow lord has the ability to mold shadowstuff into a weapon, granting them a lethal arsenal that they can call upon at a moment’s notice. A shadow lord can form a shadow weapon or change its form as a swift action once per round on their turn. Regardless of the form the weapons of a shadow lord’s arsenal take, they deal a base damage of one die of damage at 1st level, and deal an additional die for every two class levels beyond that, with the exact size of the die depending on the form their weapon is taking. Furthermore, any shadow arsenal weapon is treated as a magic weapon for purposes of overcoming damage reduction, as well as for determining their ability to harm incorporeal opponents. All shadow lords are able to form four distinct varieties of weapons:

    Bow: By forming shadowstuff into a form resembling a longbow, a shadow lord is able to launch attacks at a significant distance. Attacks with the bow form are treated as projectile ranged attacks with a range increment of 200 feet, and deal damage with d8s.

    Chain: The shadow lord can form shadowstuff into a chain-like creation, allowing for precise attacks in melee. The chain form is considered to be a melee weapon with reach that can also be used against adjacent foes. The chain form can be used to make trip attacks, and if the shadow lord is tripped during their trip attempt, they can discorporate the chain to avoid being tripped. Attacks made with the chair form are treated as melee attacks with a one-handed finesse weapon, and deal damage with d6s.

    Dagger: By forming shadowstuff into daggers, the shadow lord is able to make attacks at melee or range that can bypass most defenses. Attacks made with the dagger form may be treated as either melee touch attacks or ranged touch attacks with a light, thrown weapon with a range increment of 15 feet, and deal damage with d4s.

    Sword: The shadow lord can mold shadowstuff into a curved sword, allowing for powerful melee strikes. The sword form is considered to be a two-handed melee weapon that deals damage with d10s.

    Trapfinding (Ex): A shadow lord can use the Search skill to locate traps with a DC higher than 20, and he can use Disable Device to bypass a trap or disarm magic traps.

    Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level and higher, a shadow lord can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can only be used if the shadow lord is wearing light or no armor. A helpless shadow lord (such as one who is unconscious or paralyzed) does not gain the benefit of evasion.

    Skill Mastery (Ex): Through constant training, a shadow lord becomes absolute certain in their ability to use some of their skills, even under the most adverse conditions. At 2nd level, a shadow lord may select two skills that they have at least one skill point in. From that point forward, whenever the shadow lord makes a skill check with one of those skills they may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent them from doing so. For every four shadow lord levels they gain beyond 2nd (6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th) the shadow lord may select and additional two skills to apply the ability to.

    Shadow Form (Su): Beginning at 4th level, a shadow lord develops the ability to temporarily infuse their body with elemental darkness, causing their body to become hazy and indistinct, resembling a living shadow, which provides several benefits. While under the effects of this ability, the shadow lord is treated as having concealment (20% miss chance) against all melee and ranged attacks. If the shadow lord is in an area of shadowy illumination or total darkness, this miss chance increases to 50%, as though they had total concealment, though the shadow lord does not receive any of the other benefits of total concealment. Effects that bypass illusions, such as true seeing, do not counter this concealment, however effects that allow creature to target an opponent without visual senses, such as blindsight, do.
    Additionally, when the shadow lord uses this ability they receive a bonus to their AC equal to their Intelligence modifier, if positive, as attacks are repelled away from their body.
    Activating this ability is a swift action. A shadow lord can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + their Intelligence modifier (if positive) and each use lasts for a number of rounds equal to the shadow lord’s class level + their Intelligence modifier (if positive).

    Shadow Stride (Su): A shadow lord of 8th level or higher develops the ability to use the shadows to teleport short distances, entering and exiting through the Plane of Shadow. When a shadow lord uses this ability, they can teleport a distance up to their base speed as a move action, or they can teleport a distance up to four times their base speed as a full round action. The shadow lord cannot use this ability if they are standing in an area of particularly bright light, such as direct sunlight or the area of a daylight spell, nor can they exit in such an area.
    The shadow lord can use this ability a number of times per day equal to one-half their class level + their Intelligence modifier (if positive).

    Improved Evasion (Ex): At 12th level, a shadow lord’s evasion ability improves. He still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks such as a dragon’s breath weapon or a fireball, but henceforth he takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless shadow lord (such as one who is unconscious or paralyzed) does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

    Improved Shadow Stride (Su): Beginning at 16th level, a shadow lord’s shadow stride ability improves, allowing for faster movement and travel across longer distances. The shadow lord can now travel up to their base speed as a swift action or up to four times their base speed as a standard action. Furthermore, as a full round action, the shadow lord can teleport a distance of up to 100 feet per class level.

    One with the Darkness (Su): A shadow lord of 20th level partially merges with the Plane of Shadow, become a creature of living darkness as a result. The shadow lord may now receive of the benefits of their shadow form ability at all times, though they can suppress or resume the ability as an immediate action. Furthermore, the shadow lord is now considered an outsider with the native subtype, and gains damage reduction 10/magic.

    Spoiler: Shadow lord Invocations
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    Least Invocations:
    Aquatic Adaptation: Breath and move freely underwater, gain swim speed.
    Beguiling Influence: As in Complete Arcane, page 133.
    Breath of the Night: As in Dragon Magic, page 79
    Darkness: As in Complete Arcane, page 134.
    Devil’s Sight: As in Complete Arcane, page 134.
    Entropic Warding: As in Complete Arcane, page 135.
    Leaps and Bounds: As in Complete Arcane, page 135
    Magic Insight: As in Dragon Magic, page 81.
    See the Unseen: As in Complete Arcane, page 136.
    Miasmic Cloud: As in Complete Arcane, page 134
    Shadowed Steps: Gain bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks, move quicker while hiding.
    Silence: Use silence as the spell.
    Spiderwalk: As in Complete Arcane, page 136.
    Thousand Faces: Use disguise self as the spell.
    Tools of Darkness: Create thieves’ tools out of shadow that can be used at a distance

    Lesser Invocations:
    Charm: As in Complete Arcane, page 133.
    Clinging Shadows: Create an area of darkness that damages and slows those inside.
    Curse of Despair: As in Complete Arcane, page 133.
    Dread Seizure: As in Dragon Magic, page 82.
    Enthralling Voice: As in Dragon Magic, page 80.
    Fell Flight: As in Complete Arcane, page 135.
    Flee the Scene: As in Complete Arcane, page 135.
    Humanoid Shape: As in Dragon Magic, page 80.
    Hungry Darkness: As in Complete Arcane, page 135.
    Tenebrous Body: Use gaseous form (self only) as the spell.
    Voidsense: As in Complete Arcane, page 137.
    Voracious Dispelling: As in Complete Arcane, page 137.
    Walk Unseen: As in Complete Arcane, page 137.

    Greater Invocations:
    Chilling Tentacles: As in Complete Arcane, page 133.
    Compelling Vision: Use dream as the spell, plus suggestion.
    Devour Magic: As in Complete Arcane, page 134.
    Earth Glide: Glide through dirt and metal.
    Enervating Shadow: As in Complete Arcane, page 134.
    Field of Spines: Create in area take 4d6 damage, may be exhausted.
    Fog of Darkness: Create a black cloud that grants concealment and dazes those who enter.
    Piercing Interrogation: Use probe thoughts as the spell, but risk damage from recipient.
    Shadow Scouts: 1d4 +1/level shadows scout for you, can see in darkness.
    Tenacious Plague: As in Complete Arcane, page 136.

    Dark Invocations:
    Dark Discorporation: As in Complete Arcane, page 133.
    Dark Foresight: As in Complete Arcane, page 134.
    Path of Shadow: As in Complete Arcane, page 136.
    Perilous Veil: As in Dragon Magic, page 81.
    Retributive Invisibility: As in Complete Arcane, page 136.
    Starlight Body: Use ghostform as the spell.


    Spoiler: New Invocation Descriptions
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    Aquatic Adaptation
    Least; 2nd

    When you use this invocation, you gain the ability to breathe underwater. You also gain a swim speed equal to your base land speed. Furthermore, you may make melee attacks with the weapons created by your shadow arsenal ability underwater at no penalty. The invocation’s effect lasts 24 hours.

    Clinging Shadows
    Lesser; 4th

    This invocation creates a 30-foot radius area of total darkness within 200 feet. All creatures inside the area are considered to have total concealment, except from creatures that have the ability to see through magical darkness. Furthermore, any creature that begins their turn inside the area takes 1d6 points of damage and must make a Fortitude save. On a failed save, the creature is slowed for as long as they remain in the area and for 1d4 rounds afterwards.
    This area of darkness remains for 1/round per caster level before dissipating. If you use this invocation again during that time, the previous area of darkness dissipates immediately.

    Compelling Vision
    Greater; 6th

    You can use dream as the spell with this invocation, except that at any point during the message you may implant a suggestion in your message. A successful Will save negates the suggestion effect and immediately breaks contact between you and the target.

    Earth Glide
    Greater; 6th

    This invocation allows you to glide through earth and stone at your land speed as an earth elemental. Your burrowing leaves behind no tunnel or hole, nor do you create any ripple or other signs of your presence. These effects last for 24 hours.

    Field of Spines
    Greater; 6th

    This invocation causes razor sharp metal spikes to erupt from the ground in an area of up to 1 20-foot square per caster level. Any creature walking through this area must move at half speed and takes 4d6 points of half piercing, half slashing damage for every 5 feet of movement through the invocation’s area, taking half damage on a successful Reflex save.
    Furthermore, toxins on the spines force any creature who takes damage from this invocation to make a Fortitude save or become exhausted for 8 hours. Creatures who are immune to poison are not subject to this effect.
    This invocation normally persists for 10/minutes per caster level before dissipating. If you use this invocation again during that time, the previous area of effect dissipates immediately.

    Fog of Darkness
    Greater; 5th

    When you use this invocation you create a cloud of pitch black fog with a 40 foot radius within 1000 feet that lasts for one round per caster level. Creatures within the area must make Will saves or be dazed for 1 round. Any creature moving into the fog, or a creature that begins its turn in the fog, must succeed on a Will save or also be dazed for 1 round.
    The fog filling the area obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature within 5 feet has concealment. Creatures farther away have total concealment.

    Piercing Interrogation
    Greater; 6th

    You can use this invocation to telepathically interrogate a creature as the probe thoughts spell. However, if the target succeeds on their saving throw they become aware of your probing and can turn the telepathically connection against you, dealing you 1d10 points of damage.

    Shadow Scouts
    Greater; 6th

    This invocation allows you to create a number of small, shadowy creatures equal to 1d4+your caster level. These creatures act as spies, as per the spell prying eyes, except as noted here. The creatures are able to see in regular and magical darkness up to the limit of their sight, and have a Spot modifier equal to the greater of your caster level or your own Spot modifier.

    Shadowed Steps
    Least; 2nd

    Activating this invocation causes you to become surrounded with concealing shadows that obscure your appearance and muffle any sounds they make. You receive a +6 bonus to Hide and Move Silently checks. Furthermore, you are able to move much faster while remaining stealthy. You take no penalty on Hide or Move Silently checks while moving up to their full speed, and take a -10 penalty on Hide and Move Silently checks while running or charging.

    Silence
    Least; 2nd

    You can use silence (PHB, pg 279) as the spell.

    Starlight Body
    Dark; 8th

    When you use this evocation you become incorporeal, as the ghostform spell, except that you take on the appearance of a dark silhouette filled with twinkling lights, like a slice of the night sky, and the duration of this ability is 24 hours.

    Tenebrous Body
    Lesser; 3rd

    You can use gaseous form (self only) (PHB, pg 234) as the spell.

    Thousand Faces
    Least; 1st

    You can use disguise self (PHB, pg 222) as the spell.

    Tools of Darkness
    Least; 2nd

    When you use this invocation, you form a set of thieves’ tools out of shadowstuff. These can be used as a normal set of thieves’ tools that provide a +6 bonus to Disable Device and Open Lock checks. Furthermore, these tools can be used to perform either of those checks at a distance of up to 5 feet per caster level.
    Last edited by Alabenson; 2022-10-27 at 03:17 PM.
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    Default Re: The Shadow Lord (3.5 base class, PEACH)

    This class looks quite nice. I'm always in favour for more Shadow, and the spontanous creation of weapons from shadow is flavourful. I'm just wondering why you chose to make it an invocation class, instead of a mystery user. I mean, if the shadowmagic option exists, why not use it?

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    Default Re: The Shadow Lord (3.5 base class, PEACH)

    He's right not to, it's an awkward subsystem. Its biggest problem is it has nothing to do with shadow. It's called shadow magic, but the mechanics have no connection to the theme. Why not imagine what a genuinely thematic shadow subsystem would look like.

    One idea is a spellthief-esque class that mimics shadow versions of spells cast around him (by enemies and allies alike) a la shadow evocation and shadow conjuration. If you use this idea ping me.

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    Default Re: The Shadow Lord (3.5 base class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzardok View Post
    This class looks quite nice. I'm always in favour for more Shadow, and the spontanous creation of weapons from shadow is flavourful. I'm just wondering why you chose to make it an invocation class, instead of a mystery user. I mean, if the shadowmagic option exists, why not use it?
    The shadow lord essentially started as "what if skillmonkey class that used invocations", and the rest of the class' design decisions, both fluff and crunch, sprang up from there.
    While making a mystery-user class focused on filling the skillmonkey role could be interesting (and might be a project I could take a crack at at a later date), the system isn't particular well suited to the role and would require a great deal of retooling to work, essentially needing an entirely bespoke set of paths/mysteries.
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    Default Re: The Shadow Lord (3.5 base class, PEACH)

    Thank you for the answer.

    More paths are always a good a thing. I like shadowmagic a lot (and disagree with Elves said), but the system lacks in support. Incidentally, if you ever feel like doing that, maybe some of the mysteries and feats added in Descent of Shadows could be helpful.

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    Default Re: The Shadow Lord (3.5 base class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzardok View Post
    I like shadowmagic a lot (and disagree with Elves said)
    How do the mechanics of the subsystem connect to the theme of shadow?

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    Default Re: The Shadow Lord (3.5 base class, PEACH)

    Well, I think for one the way mysteries evolve from spell to spell-like to supernatural pretty well fits the idea of shadow being a creeping force, absorbing and transforming you the more you take of it into you. For another the way mysteries are ordered in paths with a common theme, requiring you to learn them one after another, feels to me very evocative of such a dark and obscure art, while also fitting shadow as a mounting, a growing force.

    Also, the term mystery itself sounds wonderfully mysterious and obscure-shadowy. You don't cast ordinary spells, you plunge the Shadow of Reality for its mysteries.

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    Default Re: The Shadow Lord (3.5 base class, PEACH)

    Can one make iterrative attacks using Shadow Arsenal?

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    Default Re: The Shadow Lord (3.5 base class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Can one make iterrative attacks using Shadow Arsenal?
    Yes, the weapons created by Shadow Arsenal are treated as regular weapons, including making iterative attacks. This is meant to make for the fact that the Shadow Arsenal (except for the less-damaging dagger form) target regular AC instead of touch AC.
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    Default Re: The Shadow Lord (3.5 base class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson View Post
    Yes, the weapons created by Shadow Arsenal are treated as regular weapons, including making iterative attacks. This is meant to make for the fact that the Shadow Arsenal (except for the less-damaging dagger form) target regular AC instead of touch AC.
    Except for the dagger form. But yes, I see what you mean.
    Basically, this makes this class significantly better than the Warlock - as should be

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    Default Re: The Shadow Lord (3.5 base class, PEACH)

    Suggestion to consider: a feat for creating an offhand Shadow Arsenal dagger (separate from the TWF feat tree, of course)

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    Default Re: The Shadow Lord (3.5 base class, PEACH)

    Suggestions:
    - invocation for creating Shadow Armor
    - invocation for creating Shadow Mask (disguise / hiding one's identity)
    - invocation for Shadow Concealment (bonuses to Hide checks / invisibility in shadows)
    - invocation for conjuring Instant Shadows (to counter brightly-lit areas)
    Last edited by nonsi; 2022-10-25 at 10:06 PM.

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    Default Re: The Shadow Lord (3.5 base class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Suggestions:
    - invocation for creating Shadow Armor
    - invocation for creating Shadow Mask (disguise / hiding one's identity)
    - invocation for Shadow Concealment (bonuses to Hide checks / invisibility in shadows)
    - invocation for conjuring Instant Shadows (to counter brightly-lit areas)
    I looked back at my notes after seeing this, and I found I had sketched out a few other new invocations for the shadow lord originally but hadn't completed. They have now been completed and added to the shadow lord's list.

    Least
    Shadowed Steps: Gain bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks, move quicker while hiding.
    Thousand Faces: Use disguise self as the spell.

    Lesser
    Clinging Shadows: Create an area of darkness that damages and slows those inside.
    Tenebrous Body: Use gaseous form (self only) as the spell.

    Greater
    Field of Spines: Create in area take 4d6 damage, may be exhausted.
    Shadow Scouts: 1d4 +1/level shadows scout for you, can see in darkness.
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    Default Re: The Shadow Lord (3.5 base class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson View Post
    Killing Darkness Strike (Su): One of the most fundamental abilities shadow lords possess is the ability to use umbral energy to directly harm the lifeforce (or equivalent) of opponents who are unable to effectively defend themselves.
    I'm not sure I see the benefit of having this not just be Sneak Attack or Sudden Strike. In particular, I would expect the way that this and all the various Shadow Arsenal modes use differently-sized dice to be really annoying in play. IMO, it would be cleaner to make this a precision damage ability, and have the various Shadow Arsenal weapons grant qualitative bonuses to your attack routine. You could even make one of them "you ignore precision damage immunities" (maybe the dagger?).

    Furthermore, any shadow arsenal weapon is treated as a magic weapon for purposes of overcoming damage reduction.
    This should say "is a magic weapon with an enhancement bonus of <whatever progression you're comfortable with>" for two reasons. First, that lets them reliably hit the expected attack bonus targets and removes the awkward tension of potentially not wanting to use your cool shadow weapon. Second, the way the rules for incorporeality work mean that "for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction" is not technically sufficient to hit a ghost. But mostly the first one, because the second is kinda dumb rules minutia.

    Skill Mastery (Ex): Through constant training, a shadow lord becomes absolute certain in their ability to use some of their skills, even under the most adverse conditions. At 2nd level, a shadow lord may select two skills that they have at least one skill point in. From that point forward, whenever the shadow lord makes a skill check with one of those skills they may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent them from doing so. For every four shadow lord levels they gain beyond 2nd (6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th) the shadow lord may select and additional two skills to apply the ability to.
    This comes online significantly earlier than any of the equivalent abilities. I'm not convinced that's broken, but it's a big deviation from the norm.

    Additionally, when the shadow lord uses this ability they receive a bonus to their AC equal to their Intelligence modifier, if positive, as attacks are repelled away from their body.
    Activating this ability is a swift action. A shadow lord can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + their Intelligence modifier (if positive) and each use lasts for a number of rounds equal to the shadow lord’s class level + their Intelligence modifier (if positive).
    I think with this being an Invocations class, it would make more sense for this to be an at-will or permanent ability. It's weird to have this extra daily resource you're managing when everything else is at-will (and, yes, the one the Warlock has is weird too). Especially since you get enough uses that you will generally have it up anyway. Just give them INT to AC in light armor and a miss chance eventually so you're encouraged to run around cloaked in shadows instead of heavy armor.

    The shadow lord can use this ability a number of times per day equal to one-half their class level + their Intelligence modifier (if positive).
    Again, I don't really like this being a daily ability. I think "teleport instead of moving" is a really cool shtick for a class to do, and not horribly overpowered (particularly with the restrictions you've given it). Just let them do that because it's cool. Classes should get to do cool things.

    Tools of Darkness: Create thieves’ tools out of shadow that can be used at a distance
    This just doesn't seem like enough to be one of the twelve invocations you get ever. Actually, I think a neat thing to do would be to have this (and some of the other qualitative skill bonuses) be something the class gets instead of Skill Mastery. Let the invocations be combat abilities and give them some shadow-themed skillmonkey bonuses to suit their role as a shadow-themed skillmonkey.

    Clinging Shadows: Create an area of darkness that damages and slows those inside.
    I think the damage on this should scale. If you pick it up it's your BFC option until 11th level, and while 1d6 + stinking cloud but Slow is fine at 6th level, it's just really bad at 10th level. Part of that is just invocations scaling a little awkwardly, but this is worse than it needs to be. I also think both "1 round/level" and "only one at a time" is overkill.

    Fog of Darkness: Create a black cloud that grants concealment and dazes those who enter.
    This is sort of a general thing, but having all these abilities that make a darkness that does nasty stuff to people in the darkness makes the class kind of not a team player. You can work around that by picking the other powers, but if you're a shadow mage you should be encouraged to pick the shadow powers. Providing some way for allies to operate in, or at least shoot into, the various clouds you make would be good (though obviously more powerf

    Piercing Interrogation: Use probe thoughts as the spell, but risk damage from recipient.
    I don't think this needs the risk of backlash damage. If you're concerned about people spamming it, give it the "one save grants 24 hour immunity" clause various monster abilities have.

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    Default Re: The Shadow Lord (3.5 base class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomPeasant View Post
    I'm not sure I see the benefit of having this not just be Sneak Attack or Sudden Strike. In particular, I would expect the way that this and all the various Shadow Arsenal modes use differently-sized dice to be really annoying in play. IMO, it would be cleaner to make this a precision damage ability, and have the various Shadow Arsenal weapons grant qualitative bonuses to your attack routine. You could even make one of them "you ignore precision damage immunities" (maybe the dagger?).
    I had a couple reasons for setting up the KDS the way it is. For one thing, I wanted to do something a bit more flavorful that leaned more into the mystic/supernatural side of the class, rather than the standard abilities we’ve seen repeated before.

    Additionally, from a balance standpoint, having KDS function as a separate ability from the Shadow Arsenal keeps everything a bit more balanced. The Shadow Arsenal attacks are already much deadlier than anything a standard rogue has access to. Adding Sneak Attack to those, even at a reduced amount, could unbalance the class. Granted, I could have kept a Sneak Attack progression and weakened the arsenal overall, but I wanted the shadow lord to have a more sustained frontline presence to differentiate it from existing classes in the same niche.

    Finally, I think having the KDS as a separate ability adds a bit more tactical play to the class overall, particularly at higher levels. The ability can only be used in melee and the shadow lord has a much stronger ranged presence than most other skillmonkey classes, so there is an actual choice to be made in whether its better to close in quickly and use the KDS or to start off an encounter at a distance. Furthermore, once the shadow lord gets their third attack, their sword form can actually out-damage the KDS if they can land all three attacks, which creates a scenario where the shadow lord has to decide if they use the KDS or gamble on a riskier but potentially higher damage outcome. From a design perspective, I see classes that encourage these types of choices to be superior to a class where the best option is the same round after round.

    This should say "is a magic weapon with an enhancement bonus of <whatever progression you're comfortable with>" for two reasons. First, that lets them reliably hit the expected attack bonus targets and removes the awkward tension of potentially not wanting to use your cool shadow weapon. Second, the way the rules for incorporeality work mean that "for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction" is not technically sufficient to hit a ghost. But mostly the first one, because the second is kinda dumb rules minutia.
    While I don’t necessarily agree with you regarding the addition of an enhancement bonus, the issues with hitting incorporeal opponents is something I do think I’ll need to fix.

    This comes online significantly earlier than any of the equivalent abilities. I'm not convinced that's broken, but it's a big deviation from the norm.
    While the shadow lord’s skill mastery does come online earlier than other classes, its worth noting that their version of the ability also affects fewer skills (2 per iteration, versus 3+Int modifier for others)

    This just doesn't seem like enough to be one of the twelve invocations you get ever. Actually, I think a neat thing to do would be to have this (and some of the other qualitative skill bonuses) be something the class gets instead of Skill Mastery. Let the invocations be combat abilities and give them some shadow-themed skillmonkey bonuses to suit their role as a shadow-themed skillmonkey.
    I will admit that, upon review, this invocation is a little underpowered. I’m going to raise the bonuses it grants from +2 to +6, which would bring it more in line with other similar invocations at that level.
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    Default Re: The Shadow Lord (3.5 base class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson View Post
    I had a couple reasons for setting up the KDS the way it is. For one thing, I wanted to do something a bit more flavorful that leaned more into the mystic/supernatural side of the class, rather than the standard abilities we’ve seen repeated before.
    I think you capture most of the unique flavor by having them use a sword made of shadow. Whether that sword deals a lot of damage because it is a shadow sword that arbitrarily deals more damage or because you have a damaging ability that synergizes with your shadow sword seems to be of relatively little consequence. And using a standard ability makes the class much more modular and more easily compatible with existing content. Lots of things interact with Sneak Attack. Nothing interacts with Killing Darkness Strike.

    Additionally, from a balance standpoint, having KDS function as a separate ability from the Shadow Arsenal keeps everything a bit more balanced. The Shadow Arsenal attacks are already much deadlier than anything a standard rogue has access to.
    I do not think that is really true. Your baseline damage is only better with the bow and the sword, and you fall behind rapidly when the Rogue picks up dual wielding (or some other way of getting extra attacks like Rapid Shot).

    Adding Sneak Attack to those, even at a reduced amount, could unbalance the class.
    That's not what I was suggesting. I was saying that your shadow weapon should be a normal weapon (so the bow deals 1d8 and so on), with some kind of shadow-themed bonus that is fixed (perhaps the bow allows you to fire into concealment from shadow without any disadvantage), and then you get Sneak Attack on top of that.

    Granted, I could have kept a Sneak Attack progression and weakened the arsenal overall, but I wanted the shadow lord to have a more sustained frontline presence to differentiate it from existing classes in the same niche.
    I don't think "sustained frontline presence" is a good fit for "shadow powers". I get that the fluff came after the mechanics, but that's a really jarring dissonance. If you want a frontliner, make it an Element Lord or something.

    Furthermore, once the shadow lord gets their third attack, their sword form can actually out-damage the KDS if they can land all three attacks, which creates a scenario where the shadow lord has to decide if they use the KDS or gamble on a riskier but potentially higher damage outcome.
    That analysis doesn't seem right to me. KDS is all-or-nothing, meaning that it is also riskier, in addition to having lower peak damage. I agree that you want the class to have tactical options, but I think that giving them a variety of meaningfully distinct shadow weapons is more effective at accomplishing that.

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    Default Re: The Shadow Lord (3.5 base class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomPeasant View Post
    I think you capture most of the unique flavor by having them use a sword made of shadow. Whether that sword deals a lot of damage because it is a shadow sword that arbitrarily deals more damage or because you have a damaging ability that synergizes with your shadow sword seems to be of relatively little consequence. And using a standard ability makes the class much more modular and more easily compatible with existing content. Lots of things interact with Sneak Attack. Nothing interacts with Killing Darkness Strike.
    As far as being modular, KDS is actually much more modular than I think you give it credit for, due to how I worded the ability. Specifically, KDS damage is based on the shadow lord's caster level, not class level. This means that any prestige class or effect that boosts the shadow lord's caster level also boosts their KDS damage, and those effects are much more common than options that progress Sneak Attack.

    That's not what I was suggesting. I was saying that your shadow weapon should be a normal weapon (so the bow deals 1d8 and so on), with some kind of shadow-themed bonus that is fixed (perhaps the bow allows you to fire into concealment from shadow without any disadvantage), and then you get Sneak Attack on top of that.
    Honestly, I don't really see that as an improvement, and I'd see it as a massive downgrade. Sneak Attack as an ability has a number of problems, which I won't recount here, and including it here would mean I'd need to start jumping through hoops to address those problems. Meanwhile, I'd also have to layer on additional aspects to the shadow arsenal, which is supposed to be the marquee ability of the class, to justify it as a useful option, or else risk running into the same problems that soulknife has.
    Essentially, I'd be massively adding to the complexity of the class while neutering some of the aspects that allow it to stand out, both from a mechanical and fluff standpoint.

    That analysis doesn't seem right to me. KDS is all-or-nothing, meaning that it is also riskier, in addition to having lower peak damage. I agree that you want the class to have tactical options, but I think that giving them a variety of meaningfully distinct shadow weapons is more effective at accomplishing that.
    To put some numbers behind my analysis, at 20th level the sword form is dealing 10d10 damage, plus say an extra 6 damage if the shadow lord has an 18 in Str, which is certainly achievable through gear at that level, for an average 61 damage per hit. Assuming all three iterative attacks hit, that means the shadow lord can deal an average of 183 damage in one round. The shadow lord's KDS, meanwhile, will deal 20d12 damage on a single hit, or an average of 130 damage.
    However, the KDS deals this damage on a single attack at the shadow lord's highest attack bonus, against their opponent's likely much lower touch AC. In all likelihood, the shadow lord will have a much easier time making this attack than they will hitting with their third or even second iterative attack against their opponent's normal AC. So, the shadow lord has a choice of either using the KDS, which is much easier to land but will deal on average less damage, or take the chance of making a full attack, which could potentially deal more damage, but only if the shadow lord can land at least three attacks.
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    Default Re: The Shadow Lord (3.5 base class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomPeasant View Post
    I'm not sure I see the benefit of having this not just be Sneak Attack or Sudden Strike. In particular, I would expect the way that this and all the various Shadow Arsenal modes use differently-sized dice to be really annoying in play. IMO, it would be cleaner to make this a precision damage ability, and have the various Shadow Arsenal weapons grant qualitative bonuses to your attack routine.
    Precision damage sucks. Too many opponents that don't care - and they only multiply with level increase.

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    Default Re: The Shadow Lord (3.5 base class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Precision damage sucks. Too many opponents that don't care - and they only multiply with level increase.
    I had alluded to this in my earlier post, but I agree with the sentiment and I think I'll go into a bit more detail:

    Sneak attack, on the surface, is a very well-designed ability. It grants classes, usually ones who would otherwise have fairly low damage potential, high burst damage when flanking or attacking flatfooted enemies. This rewards the player for positioning and setup, which is good design. The problem with sneak attack stems from the fact that any creature type immune to critical hits is also immune to being sneak attacked, including constructs, elementals, oozes, plants, and, most egregiously, undead. The means that fully 1/3 of all creature types, including one of the most common enemy types in the game, is completely immune to sneak attack and similar abilities. While it is possible to work around these issues, this requires the player to splatbook dive so they can either dedicate limited build or character resources to overcome a fundamental weakness in their primary class ability.

    Now, a class having an ability that is frequently negated is not, in and of itself, an unworkable issue, but it is one that requires consideration when designing the rest of the class. Any class with sneak attack as a major element also needs a way to contribute in combat when sneak attack is impossible, which is something that most classes that have sneak attack or a similar ability lack.
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