Dealing with Adventurers

[AKA_Bait]

It's just another lazy day running the local tavern. Phil, Billy-bob and Jimmy have just come in from a long day out in the fields, Ralph the blacksmith is still trying to chat up the oldest Stevens girl and Midwife Jane is starting on her third drink after getting a few copper for delivering the youngest one.

The door opens and in walks an elf wearing robes with all sorts of weird symbols stitched on, a fellow in chain mail, and a little bugger with a dagger sporting a jewel worth more than the net worth of the inn and its customers combined. Holy crud, Adventurers.

The other thread got me thinking about this and perhaps I deal with the NPC and PC relationship differently than most. In my games, NPCs are generally afraid of any PC they come across. They may express it in different ways, but if the PC is taking no steps to hide what he is, every low level NPC they come across (which is almost all of them) is going to know deep down that the person they are talking to can snuff them out like a candle. You never know what's going to set one off and then it's fireballs in the town square and dozens dead in seconds. As a result, most NPC's avoid interacting with PC's unless they need to for some reason or can't get out of it (like owning an Inn).

How do you folks deal with it?

[Balkash]

Generally it depends on the PC's. If they are good aligned, or at least do good deeds, then the NPC's tend to be friendly and helpful. If the group is neutral, or unknown, they NPC's tend to ignore the PC's at lower level, or try to get out of being near them. If the group is evil, most NPC's run away, flee, or just try to leave the room or area. Some shops will even try to act closed. Occasionally, if the town guard are near by, an NPC might heckle the PC's and boo them from afar.

[Xefas]

It varies from game to game, obviously, but most of the time I treat adventuring as just another profession.There are monsters out there, most of which are inexplicably evil. If we didn't have adventurers, they'd run wild, killin' us all.

In the same way that a person isn't going to be too shook up over talking to a police officer who just happens to be carrying a handgun which could kill them instantly, my NPCs generally don't care so long as the adventurers don't cause any trouble. Obviously if there was a police officer waving a shotgun in your face and demanding prostitutes, as many adventurers are prone to doing, then the pleasantries dissolve, but that could happen with anyone, regardless if they choose to go raid long forgotten ruins for a living.

Though, this is obviously a world in which Speak with Dead trivializes most murder investigations. It's not "Well, after spending an exhaustive amount of time searching the crime scene for evidence, I seem to have found some bat guano and- yadda yadda" it's "Steve did it. Go scry Steve"

[Ramos]

In a world where one out of 256 NPCs is epic-level (e.g. Toril) I don't think there's a problem. If the PCs get out of hand, use Balefire.

[Hyfigh]

Though, this is obviously a world in which Speak with Dead trivializes most murder investigations. It's not "Well, after spending an exhaustive amount of time searching the crime scene for evidence, I seem to have found some bat guano and- yadda yadda" it's "Steve did it. Go scry Steve"

This has me LOL'ing. Mind if I sig it?

[AKA_Bait]

Though, this is obviously a world in which Speak with Dead trivializes most murder investigations. It's not "Well, after spending an exhaustive amount of time searching the crime scene for evidence, I seem to have found some bat guano and- yadda yadda" it's "Steve did it. Go scry Steve"

I guess that's really dependant upon the power level of your setting. Most little towns, maybe even big towns, wouldn't have a 5th level cleric in residence to cast the spell in a medium power level setting.

Of course if it's the kind of setting with epic Commoners then yeah.

[Mr.Moron]

Though, this is obviously a world in which Speak with Dead trivializes most murder investigations. It's not "Well, after spending an exhaustive amount of time searching the crime scene for evidence, I seem to have found some bat guano and- yadda yadda" it's "Steve did it. Go scry Steve"

Not really. Speak with Dead doesn't work if the corpse has no mouth.

A damaged corpse may be able to give partial answers or partially correct answers, but it must at least have a mouth in order to speak at all.

If that is how the law works in those parts, any murderer with half a brain will take to crushing the victims jaws. Even that is only if he is silly enough to just leave the body lying around, something that is foolish even in a world without magic that makes corpses talk.

Many other divinations are faulty in a legal context because they only impart knowledge to caster. That requires trust that the supplier of your "Evidence" doesn't have separate agendas and isn't corrupt. I suppose you could always put the power to convict directly in the hands of the diviner but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

[Xefas]

This has me LOL'ing. Mind if I sig it?

I would be honored

I guess that's really dependant upon the power level of your setting. Most little towns, maybe even big towns, wouldn't have a 5th level cleric in residence to cast the spell in a medium power level setting.

Of course if it's the kind of setting with epic Commoners then yeah.

Well, I try to keep a 5th level Cleric around most civilized areas, if only because someone is invariably going to get into a bind and be willing to pay through the nose for a Remove Disease, Remove Curse, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Lesser Restoration, or any number of healing spells. I believe these wandering healbots have been referred to by my group on more than one occasion as a "pocket-Jesus". Not without merit, either, considering Water Walk is also a 3rd level spell.

EDIT:

If that is how the law works in those parts, any murderer with half a brain will take to crushing the victims jaws. Even that is only if he is silly enough to just leave the body lying around, something that is foolish even in a world without magic that makes corpses talk.

Well, I guess it's just lucky, then, that we're dealing with adventurers controlled by a pack of greedy bastards who couldn't see or plan beyond the paper bag they're suppose to be roleplaying their way out of. I mean that in the fondest way, if any of my players happen to read this.

[tainsouvra]

You never know what's going to set one off and then it's fireballs in the town square and dozens dead in seconds.

Adventurers in your games regularly do that? No wonder the peasants freak out!

If it were just the fact that they were, in effect, "very armed and very dangerous"...most people actually tend to get used to that kind of thing over time. If adventuring is an actual profession in a campaign, people get used to it--the potential danger just stops being noteworthy. If adventuring is a sign that someone is a homicidal mass-murderer like adventurers seem to be in your campaigns, though, peasants should be scared!

[AKA_Bait]

Adventurers in your games regularly do that? No wonder the peasants freak out!

If it were just the fact that they were, in effect, "very armed and very dangerous"...most people actually tend to get used to that kind of thing over time. If adventuring is an actual profession in a campaign, people get used to it--the potential danger just stops being noteworthy. If adventuring is a sign that someone is a homicidal mass-murderer like adventurers seem to be in your campaigns, though, peasants should be scared!

No, in my games they aren't but in the world they live in there are some adventurers like that. As a typical NPC, if I don't know them, I don't know if they are one of the 5% that might slaughter me and take his pleasure upon my daughter or part of the 95% that are reasonably safe. Why take the chance?

[mostlyharmful]

never mind the violence, there's ways of dealing with that or tuning it out, the thing that makes my NPCs run for the friggn' hills is the economics. A mid level group can walk into a tavern and plonk enough gold on the counter to buy the villaga and everything within a days walk. Even if they spend 1% of what they've aquired, just to blow off steam after risking their necks in the Ghoul infested tomb, they're liable to collapse the socail inferstructure of a good size town There's that lovely early OotS when they walk into a village after cleaning out their first dungeon, sums up the reaction quite nicely. "Whatever happens next son... I love you, now go get the sign... Apples 2 a Gp!"

[tainsouvra]

No, in my games they aren't but in the world they live in there are some adventurers like that. As a typical NPC, if I don't know them, I don't know if they are one of the 5% that might slaughter me and take his pleasure upon my daughter or part of the 95% that are reasonably safe. Why take the chance?

It's perfectly fine for it to work that way in your campaign world, but I do have to ask you if you've considered how such a world would work in the long term.

If 5% of the adventuring population will kill hundreds (or thousands) of peasants, consider the effect that would have on the sustainability of the world's population. For example, if 1% of the population had class levels, and 5% of that 1% were homicidal killers running unchecked, that means that 0.05% of the population are unchecked mass-murderers. That's a massive number when you think about it--as an example, if each killed 2000 people before being stopped, the entire population of the world would be wiped out in a single generation. With a more meager number, like a couple hundred, the world would still be vacant in short order. It just plain couldn't happen in a populated world.

It's fine to handwave that kind of thing away in your campaign if your players know about it, but were I in such a campaign I'd be downright puzzled. There is just no reasonable way it could happen.

[Blanks]

@ tainsouvra

Luckily for AKA_Bait and his math, most of the adventurers are in the wilderness getting eaten by dragons, they don't have the time to kill the world population :)

every low level NPC they come across (which is almost all of them) is going to know deep down that the person they are talking to can snuff them out like a candle

Very true. He also knows that anyone harming him will be persecuted by his liege who is probably able to muster some pretty tough looking guys. Remember, when the knight in shining armor and his buddies come looking for the adventurers causing trouble in the bar, they use the same diplomacy as "Hells Angels" (or Outlaws or whatever the bikergangs are called where you live :) )

[J.Gellert]

When I design an adventure or a place, I use two sorts of NPCs - first, the normal folk, who go about their lives with little effect to the universe. Second, the strong-willed individuals that matter, and whose actions define the world as it is.

The guys whose steps live the deepest footprints are very much like the PCs - and if some of them enjoy mayhem and destruction, there's always someone who will hire a group of adventurers to kill them.

Adventurers are dangerous, but they tend to balance themselves out. It's the same when it comes to philosophical questions like "Why haven't wizards destroyed the universe? A level 5 wizard can take out a small town without problems!", well, it's because of people that hire adventurers to save the world.

The real heroes are not the PCs. The real heroes are the guys paying them to play nice

[Miles Invictus]

5% is almost certainly an exaggeration, anyway. All it takes is one high-level adventurer going berserk for the average commoner to assume that sort of thing happens all the time. With great power comes great visibility and all that.

[Ralfarius]

In my campaigns, it not only depends on the overall setting, but also the specific locale.

If you (the NPC) are in, or within a reasonable distance of a population center, or in an area that sees a lot of 'adventurer-worthy' difficulties, then a group wandering into town looks more like an economic capacitor than a threat. They do jobs you need done, from "find my stuff" to "exterminate my vermin" to "oh merciful gods please save us the dragon is going to burn everything and eat what's left!"
They also help stimulate the economy, especially when you can get them to pay exorbitant prices for services like room and board.

However, if you live out in backwater, non-frontier mudsville the problems you see are tax hikes and poor crops. Things adventurers generally can't help you with. Therefore, dangerously armed individuals wandering into a hamlet where nothing dangerous ever happens would be like having the army roll into your suburb without explanation. Signs of trouble, and rarely a good thing.

[dyslexicfaser]

It doesn't usually come up in my campaigns, but I think Bait's theory would be fun to use.

You stroll into town, a bad-assed lvl 5 adventurer... and people flee at your advent like you were intent on pillaging, raping, and murdering everyone they know. You try to order a room for the night, and the innkeeper begs you to take his life, but leave his children and dog alone. Maybe you stop a mugging in a dark alleyway, only to have both the mugger and the victim drop to their knees and beg you to spare them.

[Mewtarthio]

I guess that's really dependant upon the power level of your setting. Most little towns, maybe even big towns, wouldn't have a 5th level cleric in residence to cast the spell in a medium power level setting.

Define "medium power level setting." I'm guessing it's somewhere between "Aragorn was fifth level" and "the guy who bags your groceries is fifth level."

[horseboy]

I'm surprised no one has brought up Glimmer Moon.

I like Varulus's philosophy:

Our streets are filled with ruffians of every description. Some are worse than others, and grow to truly fearsome power. To those we give medals, in the hope that calling them heroes will make it so.

[Elven Paladin]

I'm surprised no one has brought up Glimmer Moon.

I like Varulus's philosophy:

Glimmermoon...

I've battled devious drow, insidious mind flayers, and powerful ancient worms without knowing the hint of fear. But the mention of that name sends a powerful shiver down my spine.

[leperkhaun]

depends on the world. In most worlds there are going to be people at least if not more powerfull than the PC's. PC's start doing stupid things appropriate actions are taken.

Non-human good creatures (dragons,celestials...etc) might start taking notice, and if nothing else, there is always another group of adventurers that could be hired to take them out.

[dyslexicfaser]

depends on the world. In most worlds there are going to be people at least if not more powerfull than the PC's. PC's start doing stupid things appropriate actions are taken.

Non-human good creatures (dragons,celestials...etc) might start taking notice, and if nothing else, there is always another group of adventurers that could be hired to take them out.

Ah, but just because there's bigger fish in the sea doesn't mean your average commoner will have them at their beck and call to put down pesky adventurers.

[Swordguy]

It doesn't usually come up in my campaigns, but I think Bait's theory would be fun to use.

You stroll into town, a bad-assed lvl 5 adventurer... and people flee at your advent like you were intent on pillaging, raping, and murdering everyone they know. You try to order a room for the night, and the innkeeper begs you to take his life, but leave his children and dog alone. Maybe you stop a mugging in a dark alleyway, only to have both the mugger and the victim drop to their knees and beg you to spare them.

Go watch Akira Kurowsawa's The Seven Samurai.

Peasants in feudal Japan had that general reaction when the Samurai (whom the peasants had hired to save them from marauding bandits) came to town. And remember, these weren't supernaturally-powered, magic-laden PCs. They were a half-dozen Samurai in cotton shirts and carrying everyday swords.

Also, the peasants were later found to have ambushed and killed other, passing samurai who came through town and caused trouble. One peasant is a life to be taken. A village-full of peasants who are willing to wait until you're asleep, or to poison your food, are another story entirely - even for D&D PCs.

[SmartAlec]

They were a half-dozen Samurai in cotton shirts and carrying everyday swords.

To be fair to the village, they had been dogged by bandits for some time; and a Samurai in Feudal Japan had the right to summarily execute peasantry.

But if you make trouble in a close-knit community like a village or small town, sleep lightly for sure.

[tainsouvra]

To be fair to the village, they had been dogged by bandits for some time; and a Samurai in Feudal Japan had the right to summarily execute peasantry.

...a right that could be exercised for what we would consider trivial or capricious reasons, in fact, and by a group that had a vested interest in keeping the peasantry down. The equivalent here wouldn't be adventurers in general, but a specific organization of government-approved adventurers who had a country-wide reputation for oppressing (and sometimes killing) peasants.

[AKA_Bait]

Very true. He also knows that anyone harming him will be persecuted by his liege who is probably able to muster some pretty tough looking guys.

Um, why would anyone harming a peasant necc. be persecuted by his liege? You are assuming that his liege is good, hears about it, and has the time/resources to deal with it. I can think of no king in history, or even mythology, who had the time, power and inclinaton to hunt down those who picked on the peasantry unless they did so to a large enough degree as to become a nusiance to the lord himself.

depends on the world. In most worlds there are going to be people at least if not more powerfull than the PC's. PC's start doing stupid things appropriate actions are taken.

Non-human good creatures (dragons,celestials...etc) might start taking notice, and if nothing else, there is always another group of adventurers that could be hired to take them out.

Indeed, and these are what happens to the evil groups I DM for eventually. Bear in mind though, that some outsider will show up and avenge you should the guy with the glowing sword have a short temper and a drinking problem is cold comfort when said PC takes a seat next to you at the bar.

@tainsouvra this is the reason that there is a sustainable population by the way. It's not that these evil characters run around 'unchecked' it's just that the process that checks them and keeps the body count reasonable, 60% of that other 95% would kill those maniacs without a second thought, is after poor Joey the farmer is a smoldering corpse. I don't know a lot of PC groups, even the good ones, who are willing to drop 5k in diamons to raise Joey after they smite the nutcases.

[MCerberus]

Well your average merchant will look at adventurers and see gold. As such you can work in all sorts of fake cure-alls, wards against some monster's ability that don't work, and all sorts of things.

As for rampaging PCs, there's always going to be something bigger than it. Up to a certain point an army trying to find them and slice their heads off will work, but then you get to higher levels. That's when you get the big guns to get mad at the PCs for doing horrible monstrous things for no reasons. One of the most obvious are the high-priests. Extremely high level clerics that if you kill, you're going to get some divine wrath. Then you've got your arch-druids that have lived for countless centuries, extremely powerful wizards that you've slighted, and plenty of assassins on your tail. The PCs would even have other adventurers hounding them if they do something to put a price on them.

If the party is the evil world-conquering kind, then they should plan for this kind of stuff. One of the best examples of this would be Vecna, who became a god and is plotting an undead invasion/apocalypse.

[dyslexicfaser]

Well your average merchant will look at adventurers and see gold. As such you can work in all sorts of fake cure-alls, wards against some monster's ability that don't work, and all sorts of things.

Until they realize you sold them a bad charm and come back and kill you and everyone you know, like the vindictive little bastards that they are.

[JaxGaret]

"the guy who bags your groceries is fifth level."

*cough* Faerun *cough*

Uh... yes, that's quite interesting..

Where did those links come from?

[Mewtarthio]

Where did those links come from?

The post I was quoting is no longer in existenence. It just inexplicably had those links appended to the end. I'm guessing it was a spambot, but I'm not sure who's post he was copying.

EDIT: Ah, it was AKA Bait's. I've fixed my original post, since the only proper way to deal with spambots is to remove all trace of their existence, Egyptian traitor-style.