Worth EWP?

[Jack Zander]

Is the warmace worth the feat? It doesn't look like it to me, but I have a player who wants to wield it one handed. I told him he can if he really wants to, but I don't think it's worth the feat. He's a fighter though so blowing feats is alright for him to do. BTW, he's starting at 5th level.

[Skjaldbakka]

Not familiar with warmace, but EWP is generally only worth it for a spiked chain fighter, or for a Fighter in a core-only game.

Or for flavor, which is why most people take it.

[Ganurath]

Not familiar with warmace, but EWP is generally only worth it for a spiked chain fighter, or for a Fighter in a core-only game.

Or for flavor, which is why most people take it.

It's one of those weapons that can be wielded two handed as a martial or one handed as exotic, like the bastard sword. It's a bludgeoning heavy hitter that's so heavy it gives you -1 AC.

[Armads]

It's really bad. It gives him an AC penalty, which actually makes him weaker.

[Jack Zander]

But deals 1d12 damage so is about on par with a bastard sword.

Wait? In a core-only game the feat is worth it? In a core only game EWP is usually worse since there is only one weapon worth taking. I've seen non-core EWs worth the feat for. Mercurial Greatswords and longswords effectively meant you spent a feat for a X4 crit.

[Draz74]

But deals 1d12 damage so is about on par with a bastard sword.

1 point more average damage than a bastard sword. Which is totally not worth -1 AC.

Wait? In a core-only game the feat is worth it? In a core only game EWP is usually worse since there is only one weapon worth taking.

Point is, in Core Only you run out of any worthwhile feats, so if you don't multiclass you're free to waste feats on things like EWP.

[Jack Zander]

Ah, true for 20th level fighters then.

[Skjaldbakka]

Actually, the reason I am a proponent of EWP in a core only game is that there aren't many ways to up damage in core. EWP is one of those ways, because most of them improve your damage die, or your crit range.

[honkuimushi]

If you want an exotic bludgening weapon, I would suggest the maul, also in Complete Warrior. It's stats are 1d10 20 x3, so it's about equivalent and there's no penalty to AC. I would suggest that a great crossbow, double weapons, and some of the racial exotic weapons are worthwhile. They are a bit situational, but for someone with several fighter levels, perhaps with a garnish of Exotic Weapon Master, they can be effective.

[Skjaldbakka]

Also, EWP is a worthwhile feat for warblades, because of their weapon aptitude. One feat for proficiency in all exotic weapons (albeight 1/day)? I'll take that.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

heh, when we were mixing 3.0 sources just before 3.5...that was some sweet cheese...

keen, improved crit, and assasnin's senses from Relics and Rituals...all on a mercurial greatsword...it was worth spending the EWP feat along with monkey grip to one hand the thing and tote around a weapo that had a..what was it...2d8 damage and 17-20x4 crit?

I can't remember, but it was nice. I think I found a way to increase the weapon size 1 or two more times but I forget exactly how...

[AslanCross]

heh, when we were mixing 3.0 sources just before 3.5...that was some sweet cheese...

keen, improved crit, and assasnin's senses from Relics and Rituals...all on a mercurial greatsword...it was worth spending the EWP feat along with monkey grip to one hand the thing and tote around a weapo that had a..what was it...2d8 damage and 17-20x4 crit?

I can't remember, but it was nice. I think I found a way to increase the weapon size 1 or two more times but I forget exactly how...

Mercurial Greatsword is just like the ordinary greatsword except it has x4 to crit instead of 19-20/x2. The 2d8 damage one is the Fullblade. The only 19-20/x4 crit weapon I know of is the Greathammer from Monster Manual IV. There's another Greathammer in Races of Stone, but that's down to just x4 crit.

IMO the Warmace isn't worth it, especially if wielded one-handed. For some reason it gives you -1 to AC due to its "heavy weight," but it's HALF the weight of the Maul, which deals only 1d10 with a x3 crit. (Both weapons can be two-handed as Martial and one-handed as exotic).

[Triaxx]

If he want's it, go ahead and let him have it. He might use that extra point of damage, and a shield to offset the AC penalty. I once witnessed a fighter using a Warmace, and a shield with grappling armor spikes. Basically it's: Stab with shield initiating a long grapple, then beat them with the mace. If they succeed in breaking the grapple, then you can drop the shield to keep them busy and taking damage. At that point you just go two handed. *shrug* It's not as problematic as it sounds.

[Crow]

I don't mind losing 1 point of AC. In the long run it's not going to hurt you that badly at all. I exchange, you get a weaon that does 1d12 in one hand, and jumps up to 3d6 when you use Enlarge Person. Not that bad.

Average damage calculations are great and all, and I know a lot of people on here swear by them, but I'd rather have that occasional "extra punch". Battles rarely last long enough for "average" damage to be much of a factor. This is why I like higher crit multipliers over widened crit range. Range is nice, but I'd rather get that x3 every once in a while than x2 just a little more often. Bear in mind, this is just personal preference.

[greenknight]

The other time EWP can be worth it is when a character doesn't get martial weapons on their class list (mainly Clerics). It might also be worth considering the repeating crossbows for low Strength characters, although if you want to do something like this Rapid Reload and a light crossbow seems a better proposition long term.

[Crow]

The other time EWP can be worth it is when a character doesn't get martial weapons on their class list (mainly Clerics). It might also be worth considering the repeating crossbows for low Strength characters, although if you want to do something like this Rapid Reload and a light crossbow seems a better proposition long term.

You can get a heavy repeating crossbow, which is quite nice. You can use Rapid Shot with it as well as getting iterative attacks at higher levels. I'd definately consider it.

I think if you're going to burn a feat anyways, EWP on the repeater is better than rapid reload.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I think if you're going to burn a feat anyways, EWP on the repeater is better than rapid reload.

It depends.
If you want to be a ranged combatant you still have to take a time out to reload quite often.
However if it is just for occasional use or something you do prior to melee it would definitely be worth considering.

[Iku Rex]

The warmace is a crappy weapon even if you don't have to spend an EWP. Its critical range puts it on par (and I'm being generous here) with the bastard sword or maul before you factor in the -1 AC. As a rule of thumb -1 AC = +1 AB = +2 damage, so the end result is a weapon equivalent to a heavy mace.

[Ossian]

Thus far, the only EWP worth the feat is the lightsaber. 2d8, opponent is always in melee inferiority (as if unarmed), all touch attacks (armor won't work), and you get to deflect magic missiles....

No, seriously, the EWP isn't worth it. I prefere to keep sme weapons as just two handed (bastard swords and the like). You can use one hand if you really have to, and there you get the -4. I'd use an EWP only on an NPC whom I'd want to characterize a bot more with a eculiar weapon choice (say, b.sw. and shield). For players, there are tons of better options.

O.

[Crow]

1 AC is ridiculously overrated. Really it doesn't make a big difference at all.

One could make the case that the EWP:Warmace fighter actually gains AC through the feat. Using an equivelant damage die weapon, he is going to be using the weapon two handed.

(by the way, not all fighters have 18 strength)

Using the weapon two-handed prevents the use of a shield (until they can invest in an animated one). So by going one-handed with the warmace, he nets +1 AC. When he runs accross an enchanted shield, he gains even more that he wouldn't have had otherwise.

Oh and just for the hell of it, here are some stats (no scientific method whatsoever). I'm not trying to make a case, just put the info out for people to compare and decide for themselves:

14 STR, Bastard Sword 1 hand, 7.5 avg +2 ac hvy shield, 24 potential
16 STR, Bastard Sword 1 hand, 8.5 avg +2 ac, 26 pt
18 STR, Bastard Sword 1 hand, 9.5 avg +2 ac, 28 pt

14 STR, Bastard Sword 2 hands, 8.5 avg, 26 potential
16 STR, Bastard Sword 2 hands, 9.5 avg, 28 pt
18 STR, Bastard Sword 2 hands, 12.5 avg, 32 pt

14 STR, Greatsword 2 hands, 10 avg, 30 potential
16 STR, Greatsword 2 hands, 11 avg, 32 pt
18 STR, Greatsword 2 hands, 13 avg, 36 pt

14 STR, Warmace 1 hand, 8.5 avg +1 ac hvy shield, 28 potential
16 STR, Warmace 1 hand, 9.5 avg +1 ac, 30 pt
18 STR, Warmace 1 hand, 10.5 avg +1 ac, 32 pt

14 STR, Hvy Mace 1 hand, 6.5 avg, +2 ac, 20 potential
16 STR, Hvy Mace 1 hand, 7.5 avg, +2 ac, 22 pt
18 STR, Hvy Mace 1 hand, 8.5 avg, +2 ac, 24 pt

I may have completely blown it also, as I seem to remember the Warmace as a x3 crit weapon. If not, then my numbers on potential damage are ****ed. Also, I'm super tired, so I may have screwed them all up anyways.

So yeah, you basically trade 1 average damage for 1 ac. But you get greater damage potential over the bastard sword. Like I said earlier, I prefer explosiveness. Others prefer average damage. Battles are like 3 rounds in duration. I'd rather have that explosive potential over 1 more points of damage/round.

[Kioran]

I´m quite partial to the Greatspear (2d6, Reach, x3 Crit, 10ft. Range) even though it´s suboptimal, or the Longaxe (range on slashing attacks + two damage types? Why yes, thanks).
These are okay, allthough there are much stronger Feats.

If you´re not in a game of extreme optimization, it´s okay though (one reason why I hate hate overoptimized gameplay. Eliminates to many options).

[Crow]

I´m quite partial to the Greatspear (2d6, Reach, x3 Crit, 10ft. Range) even though it´s suboptimal, or the Longaxe (range on slashing attacks + two damage types? Why yes, thanks).
These are okay, allthough there are much stronger Feats.

If you´re not in a game of extreme optimization, it´s okay though (one reason why I hate hate overoptimized gameplay. Eliminates to many options).

I am a big fan of the greatspear as well, and I second you on your optimization comment.

[Amiria]

I´m quite partial to the Greatspear (2d6, Reach, x3 Crit, 10ft. Range) even though it´s suboptimal, or the Longaxe (range on slashing attacks + two damage types? Why yes, thanks).

Longaxe (Cad) ? That does only slashing damage. Or do you mean the Heavy Poleaxe (CW) ?

Anyway, I really like the Dwarven Warpike (RoS), superior to the Heavy Poleaxe since it can also trip.

[Serpentine]

Does it suit his character concept?
Will it make his character look cooler in his mind's eye?
Will it do anything other than ensure his death in every single encounter?
If yes to all, sure, why not.

[Kioran]

Longaxe (Cad) ? That does only slashing damage. Or do you mean the Heavy Poleaxe (CW) ?

Anyway, I really like the Dwarven Warpike (RoS), superior to the Heavy Poleaxe since it can also trip.

A, okay. Yes, I meant the Heavy Poleaxe. It´s a nice weapon, and to me, quite balanced. Of course the warpike is better, but then, it´s also Codex creep. I don´t like that....allthough it was inevitable.

The best thing about the Greatspear is the image if you have seen the movie "Musa". Yeosol is a demigod of war.

[Iku Rex]

1 AC is ridiculously overrated. Really it doesn't make a big difference at all.

AC is a key component of any melee build. It makes more of a difference than a slight increase in damage dice.

I may have completely blown it also, as I seem to remember the Warmace as a x3 crit weapon.

2x.

[Leon]

The Elven Line of Weapons are worth the EWP (Light, Thin & Courtblade)

[Crow]

AC is a key component of any melee build. It makes more of a difference than a slight increase in damage dice.

1 AC. Ever. Not a big deal. Most everything has a decent chance of hitting one way or the other past the earliest levels. The ability to use a shield and still use a d12 weapon is attractive though. If you have a lower-strength character (like 14 strength, even though that's pretty good), who wants to use a shield, but craves a little extra damage, the warmace will get you 2 more avg damage, and 4 more potential damage over a traditional 1-hander doing 1d8. This is only for -1 AC, so it's like the same as using shock trooper 24/7 for 1 point of AC.

2x.

Thanks, fixed it.

[Quietus]

If you want an exotic bludgening weapon, I would suggest the maul, also in Complete Warrior. It's stats are 1d10 20 x3, so it's about equivalent and there's no penalty to AC. I would suggest that a great crossbow, double weapons, and some of the racial exotic weapons are worthwhile. They are a bit situational, but for someone with several fighter levels, perhaps with a garnish of Exotic Weapon Master, they can be effective.

This is where I like homebrew. Why, WHY would you spend EWP on a weapon that is, effectively, a smaller Greataxe that does bludgeoning damage? Whenever someone wants to use a maul, I let them use the Greataxe stats, but do bludgeoning instead. It's just... more elegant, and makes more sense.

[Cuddly]

heh, when we were mixing 3.0 sources just before 3.5...that was some sweet cheese...

keen, improved crit, and assasnin's senses from Relics and Rituals...all on a mercurial greatsword...it was worth spending the EWP feat along with monkey grip to one hand the thing and tote around a weapo that had a..what was it...2d8 damage and 17-20x4 crit?

I can't remember, but it was nice. I think I found a way to increase the weapon size 1 or two more times but I forget exactly how...

Make sure it's ironwood, and cast Spikes on it. Doubles the crit range again....