Breeding from half-humans

[Altair_the_Vexed]

If a half-orc and a human have kids, what are they?
Similarly, if a half-elf and a human have kids, a half-elf and an elf, etc, etc, what are they?

There don't seem to be any rules for this sort of thing in d20. The closest I can find is the tiefling and aasimar representing outsider ancestry (as opposed to fiendish or half-fiend and so on).

Sure, one could just say that the parents' pass on their traits wholly or not at all, with no middle ground (half-elf & human make half-elven and human kids) - but that's not very exciting or interesting.

Has anyone published rules on this? House rules?

[Morty]

I don't know if there are any sort of rules about it, but I just say that half-els and human's offspring is human who looks kinda elfish. Similiarily, elf and half-elf's children would be elves who look less slender than most elves.

[Wabbajack]

Theres a fifty-fifty chance that the offsrping will be an human or half-human as far as i know.

[dyslexicfaser]

I've heard it said that the laws of genetics take a backseat to the laws of magic. Any child of a half-dragon will be half-dragon. Any half-elf's get will be half-elf.

I'm pretty sure that's just a homebrewed rule, however.

Really, you could argue just as easily that after having the orc blood diluted by two generations, the resulting offspring of a half-orc and human would just be human. Maybe a bit more buff than the average human, or with a serious temper, but human.

[Eldritch_Ent]

Actually, The DNA isn't so much a part of the crunch as the cultural upbringing is. An Elf raised in Dwarven Lands will act like a dwarf, and would have adjustments like a Dwarf, with the exception of a few things, (Namely the Sleep Immunity.) but he might still have Stonecunning...

I'd think this would apply to most Stat Adjusters as well- an Elf growing up in dwarf lands would probably develop a dwarves CON Modifier and CHA modifier- he'd probably get tougher off of nourishing dwarf food and hard work, but pick up his adopted parent's gruffness.

Of course if you really want to use Nature over Nurture, Just use whatever heritage has the most DNA in it. Or if they're equal, just roll a d2 or something.

[Aquaseafoam]

I've heard it said that the laws of genetics take a backseat to the laws of magic. Any child of a half-dragon will be half-dragon. Any half-elf's get will be half-elf.

I'm pretty sure that's just a homebrewed rule, however.

Really, you could argue just as easily that after having the orc blood diluted by two generations, the resulting offspring of a half-orc and human would just be human. Maybe a bit more buff than the average human, or with a serious temper, but human.

In whatever book the Draconic template is in, it states that the child of a Half Dragon and a non Half dragon will be draconic. Thats just one specific example though. Everything else seems to be house rule territory.

[Satyr]

Purely genetically speaking, crossbreeds (affectionately calleds bastards by zoologists) shouldn't be fertile at all. Only the descendants of the same species can produce fertile offspring and that would imply that Elves, Orcs and Humans are all part of the same species... amusing, but not very likely.

Without that pesky genetics: I would treat the children of crossbreeds as crossbreeds as well and the grandchildren as normal members of their species - a half-elves children will be half-elves as well, the children of a half-elf's children will either be slender and smaller humans with tiny points on their ears or larger and a bit broader elves with a shade of facial hair.

[sikyon]

You could just rule that a half-orc, for example, could not have children. Like a mule. Horse + donkey = half-horse/half-donkey = Mule. Mule, however, is sterile.

[PirateMonk]

Purely genetically speaking, crossbreeds (affectionately calleds bastards by zoologists) shouldn't be fertile at all. Only the descendants of the same species can produce fertile offspring and that would imply that Elves, Orcs and Humans are all part of the same species... amusing, but not very likely.

To the contrary, it's very likely that the humanoid races are just different subspecies, as in Shadowrun.

[RTGoodman]

I haven't personally checked up on it, but an answer may lie in the Book of Erotic Fantasy. I'm pretty sure it has information on breeding in general, so it might have something on half-X "genes."

Otherwise, I just say that the half-whatever breeds out after a generation or two.

[dyslexicfaser]

Of course, genetically speaking, Homo sapiens almost certainly wouldn't have been able to breed with neanderthals when they were still around, and they were more humanoid than orcs.

And now the catgirls will perish.

[Laesin]

I can't find it now but I'm sure I read somewhere that if a half-breed and a pure-breed produce children they are whatever their purebred parent was. If two half-breeds of the same stripe breed they produce a half breed. I don't however recall any rulings on for example half-elf/half-orc pairings.

[dyslexicfaser]

Perhaps it would form the mythical three-templated creature? A half-elf half-orc half-human?

Like Voltron, only not as cool.

[StickMan]

To the contrary, it's very likely that the humanoid races are just different subspecies, as in Shadowrun.

This has always been my ruling and is why I'm no longer running half elfs and half orcs. If you want to play as a Half any thing race you pick one races stats as the primary and you can switch something reasonable out and congrats your now a half what ever.

[Triaxx]

Half-orc and human? Quorc. Quarter-orc. Half-stats, bonus feat at first level. Favored class as half-orc.

[Chronos]

and that would imply that Elves, Orcs and Humans are all part of the same species... amusing, but not very likely.

Elves, orcs, and humans all being subspecies of the same species, I could buy. But now you're going to have to explain dragons, celestials, and fiends.

In Second Edition, the rule for half-elves was that any character with less than 50% Elvish ancestry was mechanically human (though they might still have an elvish look about them), any with 50% or greater was a half-elf, and that only genetically pure elves were mechanically elves. I'm not sure if I'd apply the same rule to half-orcs, though.

[StickMan]

Elves, orcs, and humans all being subspecies of the same species, I could buy. But now you're going to have to explain dragons, celestials, and fiends.

Um well its DND so I'm going with the old cop out..... Magic.

[Woland]

I tend to house rule inter-species breeding as impossible and undesirable for the parties involved. Chemistry and attraction is a difficult thing to find within a species, and that's with all the right combinations of body language, smells, aesthetic subtleties etc that evolved with it to create such a complex system of attraction.

There would most likely be an uncanny valley-type repulsion if two humanoid species were to attempt to mate, and even if that wasn't taken into consideration there are many mechanical considerations like the size of the fallopian tubes or acidity. One of the only successful inter-species breeding possibilities ever discovered, the mule, was genetically messed up and chemically imbalanced, not to mention unable to breed a second generation, so unless two fantasy 'races' were subject to very recent divergent evolution that didn't leave them so dissimilar that they couldn't mate (which actually would mean they were genetically diverse, not actually divergently evolved) a half-x is going to be very, very, very rare and messed up in a metric ton of ways.

[thereaper]

Elves, orcs, and humans all being subspecies of the same species, I could buy. But now you're going to have to explain dragons, celestials, and fiends.

In Second Edition, the rule for half-elves was that any character with less than 50% Elvish ancestry was mechanically human (though they might still have an elvish look about them), any with 50% or greater was a half-elf, and that only genetically pure elves were mechanically elves. I'm not sure if I'd apply the same rule to half-orcs, though.

I believe I read somewhere that half-dragons are the result of dragons shapeshifting into other forms and then "doing the deed". Celestials and fiends...well, the same rules may not apply because they're outsiders. Remember, they're from an entirely different plane of existence. For an outsider to have sex with a person from the material plane...Who knows? There is no separation between soul and body for them. What happens when part of a soul-body comes into sexual contact with a normal body? We just don't know. Perhaps it might just be that the celestial or fiendish sex cells convert themselves to "normal" format, which turns out to be compatible with humans, allowing the reproduction to work and result in offspring whose own cells are in a hybrid format.

But even despite this, one must consider that even in inter-species mating, there is a (very) small chance that the genes will match up in just the right way so as to not mess up the offspring and even result in fertility. In this way a new, hybrid species can be born. It's been seen in the laboratory (though admittedly not with any lifeforms as complex as humans). As rare as it is, any possible experimental result will be achieved if the experiment is conducted enough times. And PCs (or major NPCs) tend to be anything but ordinary as far as statistics go, so maybe that one half-celestial just happened to be lucky that out of all the thousands of human-celestial sex that happens out there, he happens to be the result that wasn't messed up.

Basically, there's a lot of possibilities (especially considering magic). You just need to be imaginative about it.

[Moff Chumley]

I haven't personally checked up on it, but an answer may lie in the Book of Erotic Fantasy.

Are you even allowed to cite that as a reference to anything?

[Zeful]

In page 18 of the 3.0 Player's Handbook it specifically mentions that it's possible for a character to be a partly-human elf and a partly-elven human. It also mentions that 'second generation half-elves' exist.

Take from that what you will.

[MrNexx]

Forgotten Realms standard rule is that the offspring of a half orc or half elf and a parent of one of the progenitor species will be fully of that species... so a half-orc who mates with a human will have human children, and a half-elf who mates with an elf will have elven children.

[Ganurath]

My thinking:
Half-orc + Human/Orc = Human/Orc, with minor details from quarter lineage
Half-elf + Human/Elf = Human/Elf, with minor details from quarter lineage
Half-elf+Half-orc=Human statistically, but with minor elf and orc attributes, preferably pointed ears and paler skin since they both have that in common.*

*More like less pink with orc side, but the point stands.

[Doresain]

To the contrary, it's very likely that the humanoid races are just different subspecies, as in Shadowrun.

explain half-ogres and half-trolls

[MCerberus]

explain half-ogres and half-trolls

Easy. A wizard did it.

@V - with the help from some of the bard's music. I predict acid sales will spike again like it did with "that belkar" thread.

[Green Bean]

Easy. A wizard did it.

Eeewwww.

[Doresain]

a wizard had sex with an ogre and a troll? why would batman do such a thing?

[herrhauptmann]

I would houserule, if a half human/orc mated with a human. You'd get a human75/orc25 (child 1). If child 1 mated with another human. You'd get a human (child 2).

Child 1 mated with a half human/orc, you'd get a half human/orc.

Ditto for elves.
Now what I don't get, why are there never human/dwarves, dwarf/elves, elf/orc, so on and so forth.

The only book I've seen that covered this was the Arcanis setting. Which decreed that gnomes where human/dwarf, and they were radically different standard gnomes. -2Con, -4cha with a way greater social stigma than halforcs or halfelves.

[TheElfLord]

The Second Ed Player's Handbook explained half elves (no half-orcs in second ed)

The elves seem to be pretty snobby towards mixed breeds:

Being with 100% elven blood: elf

Being with 50-99% elven blood: half-elf

Being with <50% elven blood: human

I'm not saying this is the way it is in 3rd ed, just providing a past reference.

[Kompera]

If a half-orc and a human have kids, what are they?
Similarly, if a half-elf and a human have kids, a half-elf and an elf, etc, etc, what are they?

They are whatever you and the GM can agree on. My own current character was going to be a Half-Orc, and I wrote up a back story which involved an Orc/Human community, as opposed to the 'my mother was raped by an Orc' typical Half-Orc background. After weighing the stat adjustments vs the Feat and Skill bonus, I decided to be Human. I kept my back story though, changing only that my mother was a Half-Orc and my father Human (again, trying to avoid the stereotype that only a Orc male would ever be a willing partner in a mating between the species). As a Barb/Ftr, CHA is my dump stat, so having some orcish blood works well with my stats.

As I've written it, the community still contains full blood Orcs and full blood Humans, but every member of the community can point to a relative who is of mixed parentage.