Pondering the 5.5 Wizard

[Kane0]

After seeing the statement that the 2024 Wizard will have closer to 4 than 8 subclasses, and seeing that all classes will appear to start subclass at level 3, and seeing the Order feature in the Cleric UA, and seeing the UA bard healing spells feature, i've been pondering on how the wizard will look.

I'm feeling like making a prediction, so heres what I think we will see: theres a good chance that school specialization will be separated from subclass at least partially, into a feature at level 1 or 2 that will likely replace Arcane Recovery.

School specialization: select one spell school. You get one additional 1st spell slot that can only be used to cast a spell of that school. At level X this upgrades to a Y level spell slot (or another additional slot)

Variations of this I would expect to see would be learning bonus spells of that school instead of a spell slot, a single spell slot of max spell level up to 5th, spell slot refunding ala the current Diviner ability, plus the current X savant ribbon thrown in as a bonus.

Otherwise the only other generic Wizard feature i expect to see would be something that establishes them as the best ritual casters, like ritual casting faster, or some knowledge/Int check freebies.

Happy to hear others' expectations for when we eventually see the Mage UA!

[Millstone85]

I could see that happen.

Alternatively, the four subclasses might something like:

• Specialist
• Generalist
• Divine Mage
• Primal Mage

With the specialist gaining features like the ones you wrote.

[KorvinStarmast]

... good chance that school specialization will be separated from subclass at least partially, into a feature at level 1 or 2 that will likely replace Arcane Recovery.

School specialization: select one spell school. You get one additional 1st spell slot that can only be used to cast a spell of that school. At level X this upgrades to a Y level spell slot (or another additional slot)

Variations of this I would expect to see would be learning bonus spells of that school instead of a spell slot, a single spell slot of max spell level up to 5th, spell slot refunding ala the current Diviner ability, plus the current X savant ribbon thrown in as a bonus.

Otherwise the only other generic Wizard feature i expect to see would be something that establishes them as the best ritual casters, like ritual casting faster, or some knowledge/Int check freebies.

I like that. They are already the king of ritual casting via their spell books.

• Specialist
• Generalist
• Divine Mage
• Primal Mage

I don't think so. From what I read in the last two UAs, wizard remains an Arcane caster, so making a wizard a divine or primal caster upsets the class scheme they have in place.

[Raven777]

What if they restricted Wizards to only ever being able to cast spells from two schools?

• Evocation/Abjuration
• Enchantment/Illusion
• Conjuration/Alteration
• Divination/Necromancy

That would be quite the power move to address the age old "versatility is what makes Wizards OP" debate.

[KorvinStarmast]

What if they restricted Wizards to only ever being able to cast spells from two schools?

• Evocation/Abjuration
• Enchantment/Illusion
• Conjuration/Alteration
• Divination/Necromancy

That would be quite the power move to address the age old "Wizards are OP" debate.

The team would need to completely redo the schools and spells in them to balance that out, or you end up with combos that nobody plays due to them being trap options.

[Arkhios]

What if they restricted Wizards to only ever being able to cast spells from two schools?

• Evocation/Abjuration
• Enchantment/Illusion
• Conjuration/Alteration
• Divination/Necromancy

That would be quite the power move to address the age old "versatility is what makes Wizards OP" debate.

That'd be a strange direction to go, when D&D has actual history in wizards specializing with one school and being forbidden to cast from two schools in return. To be honest, I wouldn't mind if that would return, as long as wizards will still also have some other class features apart from their spells.

[Captain Cap]

That would be quite the power move to address the age old "versatility is what makes Wizards OP" debate.

It could be argued that "versatility is what makes Wizards" period.

[Snails]

The team would need to completely redo the schools and spells in them to balance that out, or you end up with combos that nobody plays due to them being trap options.

This. The schools are too imbalanced for such a simple approachs to work. The 5e PHB specialists sort of took this into account by giving some schools better special abilities.

My strongly held opinion is that approach used for 3.5 Psions was the right one. In a nutshell, each "specialist" had a list of "spells" that were exclusively available. Thus the specialist could gain a boost in their area of expertise, while balance between specialties is easier to attain.

Unfortunately, there seems to be a bit of an allergy in the community regarding allowing, say, Illusionists to actually be better at illusions than other wizards. It is very difficult to square that circle.

[GooeyChewie]

I like the idea of having school specialization as a separate choice from subclass. I have always found the post-PHB wizard subclasses more inspiring than the PHB "School of X" subclasses. Making this split would allow Wizards to publish more interesting subclasses while still allowing Wizard players to lean into a specific school of magic, and being able to mix-and-match could allow for a lot of creative options from players.

EDIT: If they can create a similar choice for Sorcerers, it might help tie together the 'caster' suite of classes. Warlocks have Pact Boon; Wizards have School Specializations; Sorcerers have ???.

[KorvinStarmast]

I have always found the post-PHB wizard subclasses more inspiring than the PHB "School of X" subclasses.

Then go to Wizard (Generalist), Bladesinger, and War Wizard. Get rid of Artificer entirely, and add in something like Transmutation Specialist to fill that void. Four sub classes, sorted.

[Millstone85]

I don't think so. From what I read in the last two UAs, wizard remains an Arcane caster, so making a wizard a divine or primal caster upsets the class scheme they have in place.

The class would still be arcane. The subclass would be divine or primal. Kinda like with the arcane subclasses for martial classes.

[Gignere]

Then go to Wizard (Generalist), Bladesinger, and War Wizard. Get rid of Artificer entirely, and add in something like Transmutation Specialist to fill that void. Four sub classes, sorted.

Yep Scribes, Bladesinger, War Wizard and one more to round it out to 4.

[Mastikator]

TBH I kinda hope to see something like

• Specialist
• Generalist
• Bladesinger
• Warmagic

I do hope that specialist gets one of the current school's feature and they just choose one at each subclass feature level.
Generalist might get something broadly useful, like the ability to re-prepare once per day or something.
Bladewinger and warmagic are fantastic as-is and do not really need changing. Getting bladesinging at level 3 instead of 2 is no big deal to me TBH.

[Psyren]

My going theory is still that they're going to pick 4 schools to be core and the other four to be in the first Everything splat. But I wouldn't mind too much if they decoupled schools from subclasses entirely.

[Rafaelfras]

I would like sub class + school specialist too.
You take blade singer you get blade song, 2 attacks +cantrip and song of victory in it's appropriate levels. Get evoker and get sculpt spells +int to damage and overchanel. It would spicy things way up, give a ton of combinations, open themes for sub classes and make other classes get something cooler from what they a getting to balance everything.
I do think subclasses+ specialisation should be the way forward for everybody.
Warlock already does that with blade chain and tome. New cleric does that (badly). It would enrich and give something to look for every other level.

[Atranen]

What if they restricted Wizards to only ever being able to cast spells from two schools?

• Evocation/Abjuration
• Enchantment/Illusion
• Conjuration/Alteration
• Divination/Necromancy

That would be quite the power move to address the age old "versatility is what makes Wizards OP" debate.

I like the much more targeted schools approach; wizards should be barred from some, and get unique benefits to others. I agree they'd need to mess with the spell list to make this work, but I think it's reasonable.

I also like splitting school specialization and subclass.

[Oramac]

My going theory is still that they're going to pick 4 schools to be core and the other four to be in the first Everything splat.

As much as I hate this idea, I think you're right.

But I wouldn't mind too much if they decoupled schools from subclasses entirely.

And I would much prefer to see this.

[Kane0]

EDIT: If they can create a similar choice for Sorcerers, it might help tie together the 'caster' suite of classes. Warlocks have Pact Boon; Wizards have School Specializations; Sorcerers have ???.

Perhaps something to differentiate the way the Sorcerer learned how to use their magic. So subclass determines source, and 'method' provides some smaller factor like a minor, passive metamagic.

[Saelethil]

Perhaps something to differentiate the way the Sorcerer learned how to use their magic. So subclass determines source, and 'method' provides some smaller factor like a minor, passive metamagic.

I think it’d work pretty well to give Sorcerers something pretty similar (mechanically speaking) to the last UAs Clerical Orders to show what they’ve been doing instead of studying magic.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I expect no substantive changes. Wizards will still be "all the spells" and "basically nothing but spells". Their subclasses will still either be anemic or significantly over-powered, since when the base is "all the spells" and the spells are so strong, there's no other options available.

[KorvinStarmast]

The class would still be arcane. The subclass would be divine or primal. Kinda like with the arcane subclasses for martial classes.

Primal and Divine are now separate classifications, not magical schools, I don't think it's a good idea to have the arcane casters stepping all over the divine or primal casters. Neither mechanically nor thematically.

But I wouldn't mind too much if they decoupled schools from subclasses entirely.

Which would be great, or potentially great, as that would complete the circle at the 50 year mark of going back to the Magic User, where it began. But I have to share a bit of Phoenix's cynicism as regards making a meal of it.

[Millstone85]

Primal and Divine are now separate classifications, not magical schools

Were they ever magical schools? Anyway, I was thinking of something in the line of the Arcana cleric from SCAG or the Theurgy wizard from this old UA.

I don't think it's a good idea to have the arcane casters stepping all over the divine or primal casters. Neither mechanically nor thematically.

Okay, that's fair.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Were they ever magical schools? Anyway, I was thinking of something in the line of the Arcana cleric from SCAG or the Theurgy wizard from this old UA.

Both of those ideas were horrible. The Theurgy wizard more so because it was better at casting cleric spells than clerics are.

Wizards need more scope restrictions, not fewer.

[Kane0]

Unfortunately as mentioned, the schools arent balanced and in all likelihood will remain that way so that avenue is a dead end.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Unfortunately as mentioned, the schools arent balanced and in all likelihood will remain that way so that avenue is a dead end.

Yet they're leaning into school based access even harder in OneD&D, without fundamentally refactoring (as of yet at least) those schools.

[paladinn]

Thinking out loud.. If you specialize, you don't extra slots, but spells-always-prepared kind of like now. All spells from your specialty are automatically upcast (at the cost of a "normal" slot). You pick one school as opposition, and that is always Down-cast. You can't cast any spells from that school until you hit L2 at least.

Pondering..

[KorvinStarmast]

Anyway, I was thinking of something in the line of the Arcana cleric from SCAG or the Theurgy wizard.

Liked the former, disliked (strongly) the latter.

If you specialize, you don't extra slots, but spells-always-prepared kind of like now.

Like various cleric or land druid domain spells.

All spells from your specialty are automatically upcast (at the cost of a "normal" slot).

That might be a balance problem.

You pick one school as opposition, and that is always Down-cast. You can't cast any spells from that school until you hit L2 at least.

That might be a better idea if they rebalance the schools a bit.

[Kane0]

Thinking out loud.. If you specialize, you don't extra slots, but spells-always-prepared kind of like now. All spells from your specialty are automatically upcast (at the cost of a "normal" slot). You pick one school as opposition, and that is always Down-cast. You can't cast any spells from that school until you hit L2 at least.

Pondering..

Following current dev trends, there would be the upcast but not the downcast. Penalties (that arent opportunity costs) just dont seem to be in the present lexicon

Edit: bonus spells prepared would make a lot of sense given the spell slots = spells prepared setup being presented. Both the cleric and Bard have class/subclass features giving extra spells prepared, so the wizard likely will too.

[Rafaelfras]

Spells always prepared is the easiest way to reinforce specialization. 1 spell per level would be a huge into the feel of a specialist. It does this for clerics, newer sorcerers subclasses etc, land druids.

[Kane0]

Spells always prepared is the easiest way to reinforce specialization. 1 spell per level would be a huge into the feel of a specialist. It does this for clerics, newer sorcerers subclasses etc, land druids.

Just worth nothing that the options are far from equal. For example by my count (missing some sources):

Looking at just the current Wizard spell list up to 5th level:
- Abjuration only has one 2nd level and one 5th level spell
- Divination and Enchantment each only have two 3rd level and two 4th level spells to choose from
- Necromancy only has one 4th level spell

Compare with evocation, conjuration and transmutation that each have at least 5 options of each spell level.