Questionable Content XIX: Give Jeph Just A *Little* Credit, Here

[Wraith]

Welcome to the latest installment of discussion threads for Questionable Content, a M-F"slice of life" comic in which life is defined by coffee, robots, Butts Disease, and spontaneous metal interludes.

You have been warned.

Links To The Past
Questionable Content 1
Questionable Content 2: Espresso With Extra Scorn
Questionable Content 3: Ironically Quite Popular
Questionable Content 4: Attack of the 60-Inch AnthroPC
Questionable Content 5: Suffers Occasional Outbreaks of Butt's Disease
Questionable Content 6: Murder Mode
Questionable Content 7: Will Work For Makeouts
Questionable Content 8: OMG I SHIP IT!
Questionable Content 9: To Kill a Yelling Bird
Questionable Content 10: La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo
Questionable Content 11: It's Like Seeing a Unicorn
Questionable Content 12: Artificial Unintelligence
Questionable Content 13: It's YOU Who Is The Dork!
Questionable Content 14: I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem
Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt
Questionable Content XVII: "My Brain Is Trash And I Live On The Internet"
Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"
Questionable Content XIX: Give Jeph Just A *Little* Credit, Here

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Last time on Questionable Content: Claire visits an island made entirely out of Red Flags, has two separate angry/screaming tantrums, encounters another employee literally mid-mental health crisis due to her abysmal working conditions, tried to leave the place at least once, and has uncovered negligence and disarray of staggering proportions....

....But she isn't sure if she will take the job or not. Who knows? Could go either way.

[Traab]

Full disclosure, I thought that was winslow at first. Or whatever hannerlores anthro pc was called. I honestly forgot pintsize had a human sized body now.

[Rodin]

Full disclosure, I thought that was winslow at first. Or whatever hannerlores anthro pc was called. I honestly forgot pintsize had a human sized body now.

I did the same. It's the pink shirt, which is similar enough to Winslow's skin color that your brain fills in the rest as Pintsize and Winslow look quite similar now. Yesterday's comic suddenly made a lot more sense when I read the forum posts here and realized my mistake.

Once I got past that though the actual content is a big improvement. We've asked what Marten is going to do on an island full of crazy scientists with his total lack of motivation and education. It's good to see his friends acknowledging how potentially damaging the move could be for him.

[Traab]

Honestly, he works in a library now, its distressingly likely he would just work under claire (hur hur) which is an obvious prelude to relationship drama. Basically, he is the dogsbody running around to take care of all the little tasks while she is trying to create a framework with which she can organize everything.

[Ionathus]

Yeah, I’m glad that this conversation about Marten’s passivity has lasted for a full two strips. Makes me feel like maybe it’s going to be treated like an actual problem and source of conflict - the comic’s been lacking in any conflicts with actual dramatic teeth since May got her new chassis, Faye got sober, and Bubbles opened up.

[Mechalich]

Yeah, I’m glad that this conversation about Marten’s passivity has lasted for a full two strips. Makes me feel like maybe it’s going to be treated like an actual problem and source of conflict - the comic’s been lacking in any conflicts with actual dramatic teeth since May got her new chassis, Faye got sober, and Bubbles opened up.

Hard to say. It's not actually that big of a problem. Lots of people go through life with unfulfilling jobs that merely pay the bills. The trick is filling up the other aspects of life. Marten has a romantic partner and a great circle of friends. Count off: Faye, Hannelore, Dora, Tai, Steve, Pintsize and Bubbles as a very conservative estimate. That's seven, putting him in the top quintile of American close friends among American men.

Insofar as Marten has a problem, it's that any attention he once paid to the interest at the center of his life - music - seems to have vanished. He no longer appears to be in a band or doing anything music related. However, this is a relatively easy problem to solve. He just needs a little push to join a band - or probably an 'Advanced Audio Formulations Research Group' assuming the move to Cubetown happens - and have band-related antics.

A significantly more interesting issue if whether or not Marten and Claire wish to consider children. Fatherhood seems like an interesting challenge to throw at Marten, but given the circumstances it seems highly unlikely to arise as an issue, certainly not in the short term since Claire is going to be very busy for some time. Instead, I suspect he'll pseudo-adopt Elizabeth and probably a suitable wacky AI in due course as has happened many times before.

Alternatively, there is the issue that Claire, by acquiring vast responsibility running Cubetown appears to be metamorphizing into a different person. That could and should place a lot of stress on Marten and force him to consider the relationship going forward, but the issue isn't that Marten's overly passive, it's that Claire has been transformed unreasonably.

[Vinyadan]

Insofar as Marten has a problem, it's that any attention he once paid to the interest at the center of his life - music - seems to have vanished. He no longer appears to be in a band or doing anything music related. However, this is a relatively easy problem to solve. He just needs a little push to join a band - or probably an 'Advanced Audio Formulations Research Group' assuming the move to Cubetown happens - and have band-related antics.

And then the Director said, "Marten, you are young, patient, aimless, and love jamming! You are absolutely unqualified, but what if I paid you a hundred billion trillion to ___________?"

[Cikomyr2]

No joke, I only now realized we were talking to Pintsize. I genuinely thought for a few days this was Winslow.

[Keltest]

Jeph's robots being interchangeable? Perish the thought.

[Delicious Taffy]

Why are they talking about threatening Marten? "It would totally work"? Work for what? Why? What do they think he's done?

[geoduck]

Why are they talking about threatening Marten? "It would totally work"? Work for what? Why? What do they think he's done?

It's what he's going to do, maybe, once Claire and he move to Cubetown and she's making enough money for them both to live off of: sit around and be even more passive and directionless.

[theangelJean]

I thought it was the opposite: they think his life needs she shaking up, and Cubetown could actually be good for him in that regard. If they don't want him to move, they need to think of an alternative that accomplishes the same goal i.e. moving him out of his comfort zone. And "threat" is the opposite of "comfort", in a way... But I don't think they're seriously considering it.

[Traab]

Honestly, I dont really get this obsession everyone in comic seems to have with motivating marten. The dude is content with his life. He has a great girl, has a job that he doesnt mind that pays the bills, he has friends that he hangs out with. What exactly do they want him to do?

[Rodin]

Honestly, I dont really get this obsession everyone in comic seems to have with motivating marten. The dude is content with his life. He has a great girl, has a job that he doesnt mind that pays the bills, he has friends that he hangs out with. What exactly do they want him to do?

I've always felt this too. Some people don't need a lot out of life, and Marten has a lot more than many people. If he was alone and friendless I can see family worrying over his future, but his social life is pretty close to ideal. It's fair for them to worry about his financial situation, but if he sticks with Claire he would be the supplemental income to her bacon bringing.

Money issues aside, the biggest issue I could see is depression due to being rudderless...except he has Claire to lean on, and he has never shown any difficulty in making friends. He's not ambitious, but the one time he was out of a job he was motivated enough to go out and get another job pretty quickly. So again, where's the problem?

I will say that this isn't a comic criticism though - as a similarly "un-motivated" person I've run into the same concerns. I can totally believe that Marten's friends would worry about a perceived problem that doesn't exist...or at least, not in the form they think it does.

[Wraith]

Honestly, I dont really get this obsession everyone in comic seems to have with motivating marten. The dude is content with his life. He has a great girl, has a job that he doesnt mind that pays the bills, he has friends that he hangs out with. What exactly do they want him to do?

I agree. Marten has been the most consistent and reliable person in the comic since it started, and suddenly that's a bad thing and he should be not only criticised but potentially threatened? Seems unfair to me.

Marten got his job in the library by being clever, he has more friends than he knows what to do with across a broad spectrum of types (compare Jimbo to Hannelore!), he has a good relationship with his family, he gave Faye a home within days of first meeting her, he treated Claire, Emily and Gabby with care and confidence when they started as interns, he plays music in a band whenever he wants to, he paid ALL of the apartment's rent while Faye was drunk and fired from Coffee of Doom, and he's now going out of his way to be supportive of Claire while she got through her exams, looked for work, and is now being driven nuts by Cubetown. Being comfortable and responsible is not the same thing as aimless.

But suddenly Faye - who absolutely IS wasting her talent for art and hardly works even when she does show up - assumes that he will just stop doing ANYTHING at all and become a layabout? He's been gone for like, 4 hours and they already have such a low opinion of him.

[Vinyadan]

I have to say that Marten has been written like a gentle 80-year old man for a very long time, and I wasn't exactly surprised when his ideal life sounded like a retiree's. But now he's back in a situation where he has to show some backbone and call a-holes a-holes, making him young again!

But yes, it's weird that people think he needs to be prodded. It's one thing to need purpose, but it's a completely different one to need drama. Faye has purpose, because she's recovering from alcoholism and suicidal tendencies. Bubbles has purpose, because she's recovering from robo-PTSD and social isolation. They both have purpose, because lots of people helped them out, like Dora, Marten, Yay, and probably more, which allowed them to become small business owners, aka America's most respected people. Now they can have the purpose of making their relationship work while they enlarge their operation.

So, what should Marten aim for, given he already has mental stability, a job, personal interests, friends, and a girlfriend? Money? Since when does anyone in this comic care about that? A socially prestigious position? Again, who cares?

This "aboulic Marten" thing immediately struck me as unorganic, when it came up a long time ago. Fundamentally, the plot had relied on Marten's pushoverism to progress, but now it assumed that it was a problem Marten had, without coming up with alternative, positive behaviours capable of advancing the plot.

One could also say that it isn't a plot thing, it's a character thing, and maybe that's the best way of understanding it: Faye has a lot of things on her mind and automatically assumes everyone's life should be as hers, so she's more or less pitching self-employment. It's never explicitly stated, but it's a situation that can happen. But what about Pintsize? I have no idea of why he would think those things. If someone is aimless, that's him.

Elliot did have a lesson for Marten, and he gave it to him without too much trouble. It made sense. It was quick and poignant. And it was due to Marten being a doofus in a way that insulted him.

[Mechalich]

Hmm...I'm going to try to puzzle this out a bit.

Step One: the comic must have drama to function, that's fundamental to the sitcom-like setup.

Step Two: while Cubetown offers essentially endless opportunities for office drama, Jeph does not know how to right effective office drama. Insofar as the comic has featured drama in the workplace it has always been about personal issues - ex. Faye's alcoholism, Corpse Witch being a monster - and not about actual office issues. The recent AI assembly line arc also makes it clear that Jeph simply fundamentally doesn't understand the modern workplace, which isn't really surprising, he hasn't been part of it for two decades now.

Step Three: Claire is 'teh bestest' and will more or less immediately succeed at any challenge placed in front of her regardless of how unreasonable that might be. While this serves as useful wish-fulfillment that apparently appeals to someone in Jeph's audience, cutting through problems via the sword of personal awesomeness is also antithetical to drama. As such, nothing dramatic can be anchored to the Claire half of the plot. This is absolutely a self-inflicted wound, but the pattern is fairly clear by now.

Step Four: None of Cubetown's characters are real characters capable of having real character drama, at least not yet. A character like Elizabeth could become one, but that'll take time, while the AIs are hopeless.

Step Five: consequently, Marten is the only character currently tied to the Cubetown half of the plot who can serve as a dramatic focus. Therefore, drama has been thrust upon him.

And...it's not entirely unreasonable that a person faced with a move to a foreign country, a massive change in their spouse's career and financial circumstances, and the loss of personally satisfying job might face some kind of crisis. Especially if we treat the inhabitants of Cubetown as if they are foreigners from a deeply distant culture. Imagine, for example, if Claire got a spectacular job offer from, hypothetically, an international archives group in Thailand, where Marten doesn't know anyone, doesn't speak the language, and doesn't understand the flow of life. I can certainly see him at risk of wandering about aimlessly like Scarlet Johannsen in Lost in Translation. That said, Jeph is putting the cart way before the horse here.

[Manga Shoggoth]

One thing that has just occured to me: Does anyone remember how Marten came to Northampton in the first place? Following a girlfriend who went out there for a job. I wonder if Jeph is revisiting the idea in a new context.

[Wraith]

So, what should Marten aim for, given he already has mental stability, a job, personal interests, friends, and a girlfriend? Money? Since when does anyone in this comic care about that? A socially prestigious position? Again, who cares?.

A thread on Reddit has pointed out something that aligns with this that sort-of explains it; For some reason, a lot of the QC cast have suddenly picked up "grind culture".

The idea that at all times you should be monetizing what you're doing, whether that is slaving away to progress in a career for 70 hours per week or otherwise doing something productive, like turning your hobbies into a side-hustle that you sell on etsy. Always working, all the time, gotta get that bread! And Marten isn't doing that, so it opens him up to criticism.

....Except that no one in the comic has previously shown that mentality. Characters like Fay are the antithesis of it, finding a niche where she can get paid $5000 for a sculpture and suddenly deciding 'nah, don't wanna' because 'reasons', but apparently 'owning a small business where she wanders out for coffee every 20 minutes' qualifies so it absolves her, or something.

The truth is, Marten taking a back-seat to support Claire's ambition *is* a worthwhile goal. He's been her rock and biggest supporter for years, why shouldn't he continue to do so until she's up and running in her career before he picks up something active for himself? Generations of our parents did the same thing, (usually) Dad working full-time while Mom worked part-time or stayed home with the kids. It's a bit old-fashioned to think of nowadays, but why not update it with a gender-flipped relationship in Marten and Claire? In fact, that's probably the only way one COULD do it nowadays; just imagine the backlash if a male protagonist started a high-flying career and his female partner immediately took on a passive support role? It'd be decried as archaic and sexist, and rightfully so.

"I want to help the person I love get to where they want to be" really shouldn't be devalued or seen as 'lesser'.

[Keltest]

I think the concern is that if Martin is doing actually nothing while in Cubetown, it will negatively affect his relationship with Claire. Stay-at-home parents from previous generations werent just sitting on the couch strumming guitar all day after all, they basically had a full time job themselves playing homemaker.

[Delicious Taffy]

And where's this idea even coming from, that Marten would be just sitting around with nothing to occupy his time? Seems like a complete fabrication pulled from the deepest reaches of the universe's rear end, since he's never once remotely indicated he was gonna do it.

[DaFlipp]

Step Three: Claire is 'teh bestest' and will more or less immediately succeed at any challenge placed in front of her regardless of how unreasonable that might be. While this serves as useful wish-fulfillment that apparently appeals to someone in Jeph's audience, cutting through problems via the sword of personal awesomeness is also antithetical to drama. As such, nothing dramatic can be anchored to the Claire half of the plot. This is absolutely a self-inflicted wound, but the pattern is fairly clear by now.

Where the heck is this coming from? When has Claire previously been depicted as “more or less immediately” defeating all problems that come her way? She spent out-of-comic years plodding away at an academic degree that nearly destroyed her with anxiety and stress, only to then spend an extended arc trying and failing to find work (while her hilariously unqualified boyfriend continued to coast through a job she would’ve loved to have as a jumping-off point for her career).

As fast as I’m aware, the Cubetown job falling in her lap is the only outright lucky break she’s gotten, and even that is still threatening to break her brain due to nonsense poisoning.

[Wraith]

There are one or two legitimate examples, but they're quite minor.

For example, when Claire first moved in with Marten, she immediately wrote him a cheque for 1/4th rent. She's never had a job except as an unpaid intern, so where did that money come from? Her student loan maybe, but it's never mentioned as a problem before or after.
And then after her exams, she spent what is presumed to be months looking for work without any breaks and money was never mentioned as an issue, until nepotism got her a job in her friend's coffee shop (after criticising Marten because she thought he did the same thing at the library).

She's also gone on extended monologues about LGBTQ rights and hostility against them, and how Pintsize's flippant attitude towards body modification could be perceived as a cruel taunt of transgender people... But no one in the comic has ever, ever said or done anything that isn't entirely 100% pro-LGBTQ. Not even the random by-standers who heckled Bubbles for being tall. Not even Pintsize, for a "joke".

See what I mean? She got frazzled by her exams, but only because she's a dork with no chill who completely over-prepared to score 99% in her final exam (which she then complained about and started asking about a resit). No one else has put an obstacle in her way, she's pretty much imagined her own problems and they generally turned out not to be a big deal.

Personally, I think the Cubetown job is an easy decision - she absolutely should NOT take it, in the same way that there is no amount of money that I could be paid to go and work at Chernobyl. I think it's mostly just a matter of what she'll ask for instead - she'd be way better as some kind of HR or Careers Advisor, than she would in some kind of technical IT role, and she'd still be able to move to Cubetown if that's what the plot demanded.

[Traab]

His general laidbackedness has been portrayed as a problem throughout the comic at various points. The lack of drive to advance beyond where he currently is treated like some sign of impending doom, and its always been odd. The worst part is, there was so much pot calling the kettle black it baffled me. Early on faye was a homeless barista with absolutely no drive to do anything more, despite being a highly skilled artist. Yes she had her own trauma to deal with but even so, basically the only driven person in the entire comic is dora and she is often portrayed as a neurotic mess. Always stressed out, overworked, demanding, etc. Everybody else in the comic is generally fairly laid back. Dale probably had the most hustle and that was because he had to work like 3 jobs to afford rent before he met marigold and moved in and dropped it to one job at the coffee shop. But somehow marten is the one its a problem for. I admit that its going to be a major shakeup for marten to move to cubetown and being worried about what he will do is reasonable. But being worried because you think he is some unmotivated schlub is out of line. If there is work, he will find it. He has never been one to shirk what needs to be done.

[Rodin]

There are one or two legitimate examples, but they're quite minor.

For example, when Claire first moved in with Marten, she immediately wrote him a cheque for 1/4th rent. She's never had a job except as an unpaid intern, so where did that money come from? Her student loan maybe, but it's never mentioned as a problem before or after.
And then after her exams, she spent what is presumed to be months looking for work without any breaks and money was never mentioned as an issue, until nepotism got her a job in her friend's coffee shop (after criticising Marten because she thought he did the same thing at the library).

She's also gone on extended monologues about LGBTQ rights and hostility against them, and how Pintsize's flippant attitude towards body modification could be perceived as a cruel taunt of transgender people... But no one in the comic has ever, ever said or done anything that isn't entirely 100% pro-LGBTQ. Not even the random by-standers who heckled Bubbles for being tall. Not even Pintsize, for a "joke".

See what I mean? She got frazzled by her exams, but only because she's a dork with no chill who completely over-prepared to score 99% in her final exam (which she then complained about and started asking about a resit). No one else has put an obstacle in her way, she's pretty much imagined her own problems and they generally turned out not to be a big deal.

Personally, I think the Cubetown job is an easy decision - she absolutely should NOT take it, in the same way that there is no amount of money that I could be paid to go and work at Chernobyl. I think it's mostly just a matter of what she'll ask for instead - she'd be way better as some kind of HR or Careers Advisor, than she would in some kind of technical IT role, and she'd still be able to move to Cubetown if that's what the plot demanded.

This is all too harsh. 25% rent for a 2-bedroom apartment is not an unbelievable amount of money to have on hand from savings. Also, has it ever been explicitly stated that the internship is unpaid? The student jobs at my university were all paid positions that people used to supplement their incomes above their student loans. She could also be receiving support from Aurelia. It's an extremely petty complaint in a comic that has always run on the Friends economy for the entire cast. None of them should be able to lead the lifestyles they lead.

The LGBTQ thing is real world vs what Jeph chooses to portray in the comic. There was a guest comic posted about this very issue in fact! The people who aren't pro-LGBTQ wouldn't be welcome in the cast's friend group, and Jeph has chosen not to feature storylines dealing directly with real-world hate. He instead decided to look at the issues through the lense of AIs, and even then he got criticized for being too on-the-nose with that portrayal. Heck, I've criticized him for dragging social issues into his wacky sitcom. The lack of heckling from Pintsize was also addressed - Marten made clear that was Not Cool and Pintsize respected that because even he has boundaries.

So what about the comic in question? My impression has always been that he didn't think about the parallel when he wrote the preceding comic (or previous "robot gets a new body" arcs) and had been pulled up by people in his fandom. He took the criticism onboard and wrote Claire's speech as a form of apology and to expand awareness. After that, he moved on.

[Mordokai]

Seems to me this is the motivation for Claire to take the job. Elizabeth is going to say Cubetown is ruining her life by hiring her and then giving no direction or organization. Claire wants to turn the job down, but goshdarnit what about Elizabeth? Claire is just the person to give her structure and save her career!

This seems to be pretty on mark, as far as today's comic goes.

[Ionathus]

Ugh, never have I been so annoyed to have guessed correctly.

Remember, kids, “yeah it’s a disaster but surely I’ll be able to fix it!” is a catastrophe waiting to happen, in both your love life and your career.

[Wraith]

This is all too harsh.

Absolutely true, I was taking liberties for (what I hope came across as) comedic effect.

At the same time though, your response sort of goes on to prove my point, in a way? Claire probably should have student loans out the wazoo - she's a Master after all, that's another 3 years of school - and no history of employment, as I think she refers to CoD as her first job, at one point? That's where I got the impression that her internship was unpaid, but I may be wrong.

So either her mom has paid (some of? much of?) it for her, or money just doesn't matter except when it does. That makes money not an obstacle, she just has 1/4 share of what Google says is around a $4000 per month apartment on hand for months after she graduated, and we go with it.

Same with the LGBT+ representation - Jeph has chosen not to portray the real world stuff in his comic, which I think was a very wise move as he doesn't have a great track record with his handling of sensitive topics. It does mean that the comic often tries to have its cake and eat it though, as characters monologue about discrimination and bigotry that we never see happen, except for that one time when the funny blue person got mad and her head fell off. We infer that it happens in the comic, but the comic also has robot-people and invisible sentient hovercars that clearly divide it from our world, and it becomes a tell-don't-show thing.

Like I said, they're minor examples, but y'know what I mean? The conflicts end up being kind of toothless because they're so ill-defined, and when they're vague and the efforts to overcome them are handwaved away, I can see how it would look like a problem was easily overcome.

[Mechalich]

I should note that when I said Claire is 'teh bestest' I meant current Claire, as in the Claire who seems to have undergone a massively transformative personal experience by having Dora write 'prioritize your needs' on the Coffee of Doom blackboard. The speech Claire makes in panel 3 of comic #4996 is not a speech the Claire of a thousand comics ago would have ever made.

@Ionathus is completely correct that the most recent comic, by any sort of objective evaluation, is of a person headed for a massive disaster of the personal, the professional, or both. However, would anyone here actually be willing to bet that Claire's going to fail?

That's the problem, and it's actually part of a larger trend in the comic in recent times, in that there's been a very strong tendency to misalign plots to scale. For example, take the Marigold case. The plot is that Marigold changes careers and this causes a realignment of characters in her personal orbit and offers a way out of retail for May. Reasonable enough on its face. The problem is that Jeph miscalculated and made Marigold a phenomenally successful vtuber of the sort that it makes no plausible sense given her personality, the overall timeframe involved, or her desperate concerns for secrecy. It happened in the AI assembly-line rights case too: Roko going on a 'drunken' rant was a perfectly in character thing for her to do. That doing so solved all their problems was ludicrous.

The current plot, wherein Claire goes on a journey of personal discovery that involves turning a bizarre holistic commune into something like a functioning research group by using good old-fashioned library know-how is, described as I just did, fine. The problem is that Cubetown is too big, too dysfunctional, and too alien for this to be at all reasonable.

[The Glyphstone]

I still think the Director is a peer in power/ability to Yay, but where Yay clung to humanity, the Director went the opposite direction.