Questionable Content XIX: Give Jeph Just A *Little* Credit, Here

[Vinyadan]

Now I like the idea of Veronica Vance taking the job instead of Claire.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Now I like the idea of Veronica Vance taking the job instead of Claire.

My immediate thought was "you are placing a dominatrix in the same area as a boss with tentacles (or at least tendrils)?", and immediately decided to alight from the train of thought right there, even if it meant pulling the cord and paying the £1000 fine...

[Vinyadan]

My immediate thought was "you are placing a dominatrix in the same area as a boss with tentacles (or at least tendrils)?", and immediately decided to alight from the train of thought right there, even if it meant pulling the cord and paying the £1000 fine...

Hey, you forgot the Wondrous Slime Woman!

And I'm sure that someone out there would love a story about a man with a massive, sentient arm.

[Rodin]

That last one matters, since the only even close to reasonable explanation behind Claire's personality change is that she's gone into 'Aurelia Mode' since arriving in Cubetown. That's actually more plausible than most explanations for such a drastic shift in behavior, but the comic, through Marten, needs to call it out.

I don't believe for a minute that Jeph realizes he's done this. He has a long history of falling in love with an idea or character trait and welding it onto whichever character he most enjoys writing at that particular moment.

In this case, he enjoyed writing Aurelia's "mom energy". Aurelia is difficult to write into the story, so Claire magically gets it instead.

As to the whole "god librarian" thing....

Gunnerkrigg Court is currently going through a similar setup with Kat. She's the Angel of the robots. The difference is in how its handled. Kat got that moniker after some genuinely impressive achievements, with the implication that there was some mystical seeing what she becomes in the future tossed in. And as she's moved into that role, it has become more and more ominous. The story foreshadowed that she would become a Chosen One, has now made her into a Chosen One, and is now dealing with the implications. And this has taken over a decade real time to slowly build up to it.

There's no such justification with Claire. We have the word of a sentient jellyfish that she's somehow uniquely suited for the job. And that's all. She hasn't solved any problems since she arrived. Even the Liz situation is down to Marten bringing attention to her. And yet people are talking about her in worshipful tones and acting like she's a celebrity while she's been in Cubetown for less than a day.

It's such a cringey Creator's Pet move that it hurts. Claire was my favorite character for a while, but holy crap has her characterization fallen off a cliff.

[KillianHawkeye]

Dominic Deegan reference. Infamous webcomic Mary Sue.

Then just use the term Mary Sue next time? It's a general term that most people are familiar with.

But let's not assume that just because we read one webcomic, that we've read all the other ones before this, okay? Like, just because I watch Dragonball doesn't mean I know any Naruto lore, and that applies at least 10x to webcomics which have much less general reach than a movie or an anime does.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Then just use the term Mary Sue next time? It's a general term that most people are familiar with.

But let's not assume that just because we read one webcomic, that we've read all the other ones before this, okay? Like, just because I watch Dragonball doesn't mean I know any Naruto lore, and that applies at least 10x to webcomics which have much less general reach than a movie or an anime does.

I wasn't the one who used the term, so don't direct this at me.

[Vinyadan]

Then just use the term Mary Sue next time? It's a general term that most people are familiar with.

But let's not assume that just because we read one webcomic, that we've read all the other ones before this, okay? Like, just because I watch Dragonball doesn't mean I know any Naruto lore, and that applies at least 10x to webcomics which have much less general reach than a movie or an anime does.

I think I will continue to refer to Luna, for three reasons. The first reason is that I have put time and effort in a post that explained her story, so ignorance is no excuse any more The second reason is that an example allows for better comparison than a vague term. The third reason is that we cannot and should not expect everyone to have consumed the same media, but this cannot and should not stop us from mentioning characters and situations in other media we have consumed, because we come from all over the world, and it would grind to a halt any conversation where we try to make comparisons between QC and something else. You requested additional information, I provided it, and I feel that's enough.

[Traab]

Too be honest, mary sue is too generic for me. Because luna isnt actually a true mary sue. She has her issues, some of them even intentional ones created by the author! She isnt flawless and its pretty clearly the case in story, but as part of the DD snark squad i got used to using her to denote an annoying character that is somehow a messiah type despite a great deal of confusion as to how it even happened because despite being great (so great) she is also an awful character. But yeah, because this is the message board where I spent literal years snarking and reading snark about the comic I used the term when I recognized the character without thinking that despite it being a thread that went through like 30 sets of 50 pages over the course of its existence, not everyone reads or knows about it.

[Vinyadan]

Too be honest, mary sue is too generic for me. Because luna isnt actually a true mary sue. She has her issues, some of them even intentional ones created by the author! She isnt flawless and its pretty clearly the case in story, but as part of the DD snark squad i got used to using her to denote an annoying character that is somehow a messiah type despite a great deal of confusion as to how it even happened because despite being great (so great) she is also an awful character. But yeah, because this is the message board where I spent literal years snarking and reading snark about the comic I used the term when I recognized the character without thinking that despite it being a thread that went through like 30 sets of 50 pages over the course of its existence, not everyone reads or knows about it.

The funny part is that used to think Dominic Deegan was some sort of big household name, like Homestuck. The threads about it were always at the top of the page! Then I finally read it when it was about to be finished, and joined the snark.

[KillianHawkeye]

The funny part is that used to think Dominic Deegan was some sort of big household name, like Homestuck.

I don't know what that is, either.

[Gez]

I don't know what that is, either.

A colossal waste of time.

[Vinyadan]

I don't know what that is, either.

A webcomic/multimedia thing that seems to pop up everywhere. I have never read it, though. I think there's a cat with a sword and a shield in it, and the art deliberately looks like it's made with MS Paint.

[Wraith]

The webcomic explosion of the early 00's was a wild time. So many came and went, jostling the top 100 of the Top 100 Webcomics lists every month, yet more made their artists into minor celebrities... And I'll be damned if I can remember any of them that aren't weird little projects that lasted about a year and were then abandoned forever.

Some people here don't remember Dominic Deegan; *I* remember Cup of Suffering! And Swenson Funnies! And Megatokyo when it was almost fun!

....Christ, I'm old....

[Traab]

The funny thing about DD was it managed to remain both incredibly make funnable, while staying JUST this side of readable. Like, if you werent a part of the message board community tearing it to shreds, I bet half the readers bare minimum would have dropped the comic in short order. It was just so much fun to mock the terrible art, terrible story, terrible characters, memeable panels, that we all just stuck around to keep going. He actually did a followup series that I tried reading for awhile but gave up on long ago. Its apparently still going though. I think it was when the water orc had sex with the mute mutant in its full terribly drawn glory.

[Johanny]

I for one don't know who this Mary Sue is, but know of Luna and Homestuck (which I ceased to read pretty early).

I read them like many webcomics, as an easy read that cares too much about continuity for being able to see that when you need three pages of explanation to justify the logic behind an action, it's worse than a retcon. I mean I've never read anything approaching it in good comics nor in good books: you don't see Shakespeare explaining how Polonius gets killed in one movement, or Hugo saying how much weight Jean Valjean lifts daily at age 50 to be able to lift a horse cart, or Schnitzler calculating the time it takes to go from Prater to the opera... It doesn't matter, because even if you recognize the irrealism here and there, it's not a scientific treaty about swordfight, weightlifting or best Vienna routes, the rest is enough to make you yield a certain sum of disbelief...

And the problem with QC today, it's that the rest is not enough to fill a second zone newspaper syndication. It's silly, but not to the point to make it pythonily humorous. Quips are rare and screwball is gone. It's gone from a funny timekiller to a timely funkiller.

[DaFlipp]

I don't know what that is, either.

To give a more complete answer, as someone who wasn't a mega-fan but did read it all the way through: Homestuck's a webcomic from the early 10's that started off extremely niche, but somewhere around its midpoint developed an almost absurdly active fan community, due in large part to the webcomic's experimental and interactive nature (it had segments that were animated, segments that were playable mini-video games, one section was rendered in freaking claymation, and it was filled with surprisingly high-quality music from the very engaged fan community - including songs from Toby Fox, who went on to develop Undertale, which developed into its own big fandom).

Of course, with every big fandom comes a slew of toxic/overbearing/overzealous fans, and Homestuck absolutely had its fair share. And eventually, Homestuck wound up squandering a lot of the good will it had built up even with its own fans, due to a cascade of fiascos and controversies that I don't really have the time to lay out, but let's just say its epilogue and sequel series were *not*, on the whole, well-received. (And that's not even getting into the video game spinoff, which successfully garnered two and a half million dollars on Kickstarter back in 2012 only to immediately dive headfirst into Development Hell...)

[KillianHawkeye]

Thanks for the answers, but the point of saying that I'm not familiar with a particular thing isn't necessarily a request to get familiar with it.

[Bilious]

I'm sorry that conversation sparking off of a comment in a forum thread wasn't what you desired when making said comment.

[Ionathus]

In other news, today’s strip is the most relatable Liz has ever been: Drunk barfing is no fun and a real universal humbler.

Nice varied perspective in the drawing too.

[Vinyadan]

I've actually started to wonder if Elizabeth is the best QC character of the last ten years. As a human she would be deeply flawed and possibly unbearable, but, as a character, she is coherent with her backstory and has some very high stakes going on for herself. Plus she's the only real opposition Claire has met, and gives Marten something to care and act about.

[Cikomyr2]

I still think her problem is more about he unresolved issue about matching people's expectations of her and her having an inflated idea of people's expectations of her.

She doesnt want to admit weakness, or unviability, and it will take a lot of therapy for help to start dealing with it.

[Gez]

I'm just wondering why her arms are cold. They're detachable robo-arms. Her blood doesn't flow through them. They should be thermo-regulated by their electronics. Why is she holding them in the heat conservation posture?

[Keltest]

I'm just wondering why her arms are cold. They're detachable robo-arms. Her blood doesn't flow through them. They should be thermo-regulated by their electronics. Why is she holding them in the heat conservation posture?

Her torso could be cold as well, or she could just be uncomfortable.

[Cikomyr2]

I'm just wondering why her arms are cold. They're detachable robo-arms. Her blood doesn't flow through them. They should be thermo-regulated by their electronics. Why is she holding them in the heat conservation posture?

Maybe its more psychosomatic. She is feeling vulnerable and wants to shelter herself emotionally.

[Rodin]

Maybe its more psychosomatic. She is feeling vulnerable and wants to shelter herself emotionally.

Pretty sure she's actually cold. Marten takes off his jacket and gives it to her between panels 3 and 4. Took me ages to figure that out.

What time of year is it again? I don't remember where the last timeskip dropped us in the year.

I saw it noted on Reddit that we've been on this singular day for over 120 strips (so over 5 months) and another similar amount of time back to when Claire got the job offer. We're on course to have Claire's job interview (because this is her look-see visit which is still part of her interview) take over a full year of real time.

[Willie the Duck]

What time of year is it again?

Any-whens, in the ocean off the coast of Canada, at night.

[Wraith]

I can't help but feel just how much more this sequence underlines the fact that Claire and Marten should not stay in Cubetown.

He isn't responsible for Liz's welfare; the Director of HR is. He isn't responsible for her safety; the Head of Security is. He's not even responsible for cutting off drinks; the bartender is.

And they're just sat there, talking crap and making inane comments while the child (I don't care that "she's really 19, honest!", she's obviously a child) runs out drunkenly into the dark, alone. What will it take for them to realise that this place is a deathtrap and/or nervous breakdown waiting to happen?

There's wacky hijinks and suspension of disbelief one one hand, but this is just a constant parade of terrible people being unpleasant. I appreciate that I am increasingly detached from QC's target audience, but its becoming truly baffling to me to read this and think that someone might find it entertaining?

[Mechalich]

And they're just sat there, talking crap and making inane comments while the child (I don't care that "she's really 19, honest!", she's obviously a child) runs out drunkenly into the dark, alone.

It is entirely possible for someone to be legally an adult and, in terms of mental and emotional maturity, still a child. That clearly applies in Liz's case. And there are real people like that. However, people like that tend to be stuck into hideous cycles of dependency and end up at the bottom of the societal ladder. They aren't the kind of aggressive go-getters who acquire multiple PhDs by the age of nineteen or who choose to move to the middle of nowhere to take jobs in a place where they have no friends and family.

That's the central incongruity to Liz: her personality is a massive mismatch to her position. Now, sometimes this sort of thing can happen because a naturally talented person is managed, pushed, and otherwise controlled by extremely overbearing parents. This is common with, for example, child actors (Shia Lebeouf's life story, about which he has been very open to the point of making a semi-autobiographical movie, is a fairly textbook case). This cannot be the case for Liz though, since her parents allowed her a massive level of independence, so much that they did not visit her once in a two-year period.

What will it take for them to realise that this place is a deathtrap and/or nervous breakdown waiting to happen?

Well, they have to go back to Northampton at the conclusion of this interview, which would offer an opportunity to reflect. If I were allowed to suddenly take over the story at that point, I'd have Claire unwind a long story about the trip to Aurelia and/or Clinton, and then have that information make its way to Roko, who would then almost literally explode at the conditions in Cubetown, call someone equivalent to herself in Canada, and then have Yay cackle madly as they watched Cubetown disintegrate under a giant pile of fines, mismanagement charges, and lawsuits. I mean seriously, Cubetown has functionally unlimited money and is guilty of a string of safety, financial, and labor violations that would fill a three-ring binder, lawyers should be more abundant than sharks in that park of the North Atlantic (especially since the various Morays are not necessarily legally independent entities from the Director, making the entirety of Cubetown potentially liable for any mistake they make).

[Beelzebub1111]

One thing I don't understand is that we were introduced to several new characters who had some level of interesting stuff going on. And we seem to have adopted the one that is an abrasive jerk whose circumstance is mostly a result of her own actions. And this is all framed like..."oh poor baby" while also trying to say that she's an adult. It's frustrating to say the least.

Honestly, she reminds me of all the worst aspects of Faye. Another snarky sarcastic girl who is mean and insults you but is actually really sad and maudlin, and can pivot on a dime as long as marten is there to help her out. It's practically Jeph's signature at this point.

[Ionathus]

It's practically Jeph's signature at this point.

Oh lord, we've adopted another one.