Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)

[Peelee]

Sorry for the long delay, but what about Jirix? More importantly, do his feelings about probably-Acheron change how you feel about Belkar's ending? Maybe there's a layer of the Abyss that's not so bad?

You know what, that's fair, goblins do enjoy Archeron.

But Belkar ain't a goblin and Archeron ain't the Abyss.

[Tubercular Ox]

But Belkar ain't a goblin and Archeron ain't the Abyss.

Do you think that's the decider? Usually Evil races go to evil afterlives that aren't so bad. Neutral and usually good races go to evil afterlives that suck. This might explain why they're Usually Evil.

Pointless speculation is pointless, but look where we are.

EDIT: I can't remember who brought it up, but the Oracle can see into the afterlife, unless he learned about Roy's mother some other way. That's one less way for Belkar to dodge his prophecy.

[Peelee]

Usually Evil races go to evil afterlives that aren't so bad. Neutral and usually good races go to evil afterlives that suck. This might explain why they're Usually Evil.

Aside from the fact that this isn't true in 3.5, it specifically isn't true in Stickworld.

In the Nine Hells, they torture you until you forget everything else. In Celestia, you meditate until you renounce all worldly concerns. In Valhalla, you party until you can't remember your own name. In Limbo, the chaos drives you mad. In Mechanus, you sit in grey cubicle stamping paperwork until you are bored into oblivion. And so on and so forth.

You may play your own games with "Evil afterlives aren't so bad" mechanics, but that's your own homebrew, and applying your own homebrew to 3.5 in general, much less OotS in particular, is unlikely to lead you to likely theories as to what may happen.

[brian 333]

You know what, that's fair, goblins do enjoy Archeron.

But Belkar ain't a goblin and Archeron ain't the Abyss.

One hobgoblin enjoyed the goblin afterlife. We can presume he got to see endless war from the safety of the headquarters tent rather than from the front line where he is sent to be slaughtered, revived in some hideous manner, then put back in the line to be sent out again.

"Hey, Sarge, how do you get promoted in this chicken**** outfit?"
"Do your ******* job better than the other guys."
"But my job is getting my guts ripped out over and over!"
"Get good at it and they'll give you sargeant's stripes. Me? I specialized in decapitation. Only took me 167 deaths to make corporal."

[No good @ names]

I'll repeat my prediction from one of the comic discussions, cleaned up into a proper prediction:

Roy's plan to slip past the stasis'd monsters works, and they end up fighting Team Evil at the room with Serini's Gate. Team Evil will be at least somewhat drained of magic due to Xykon being antsy about killing things while they speedrun the gauntlet, which will be their chance. It will be framed as a bookend to when Roy first kicked in Xykon's door back in the day, with The Order of the Stick ready to rumble in the back and a field of monsters in between.

Side bets:

-This is the scene where MitD is revealed. If my main bet is correct this is too easy to guess, so the actual bet is that the monster kills Belkar.

I only have some Monopoly Money and some pocket lint but like MitD I’m willing to bet on O-Chul surviving, because Belkar saves him in an ironic echo of Belkar’s abandonment of paralysed O-Chul.

[Kish]

Fifty gold says the creature in the darkness will not kill any member of the Order of the Stick.

[Tubercular Ox]

One hobgoblin enjoyed the goblin afterlife. We can presume he got to see endless war from the safety of the headquarters tent rather than from the front line where he is sent to be slaughtered, revived in some hideous manner, then put back in the line to be sent out again.

I'm down with The Dark One setting up a show afterlife because he knew Jirix was headed back out. I mean, it makes me really uncomfortable, but it would be Evil.

Aside from the fact that this isn't true in 3.5, it specifically isn't true in Stickworld.

You may play your own games with "Evil afterlives aren't so bad" mechanics, but that's your own homebrew, and applying your own homebrew to 3.5 in general, much less OotS in particular, is unlikely to lead you to likely theories as to what may happen.

You left out the sentence that turns that whole paragraph into a hypothetical and a question for you. So I got my answer, but I feel like I don't deserve this response. I wasn't suggesting any homebrew, just inviting speculation.

[Peelee]

You left out the sentence that turns that whole paragraph into a hypothetical and a question for you. So I got my answer, but I feel like I don't deserve this response. I wasn't suggesting any homebrew, just inviting speculation.

You said your speculation was pointless. I said it was wrong. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Im sorry if i came across as mean-spirited, i was trying to lay out thst you were wrong and why.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm down with The Dark One setting up a show afterlife because he knew Jirix was headed back out. I mean, it makes me really uncomfortable, but it would be Evil.

And over here, we have the Potemkin Abyss, only viewable on alternate Tuesdays when the prospective new residents come by for an open house.

Reminds me of a very old joke whose punch line is "OK, break's over, back on your heads!"

[Tubercular Ox]

Im sorry if i came across as mean-spirited, i was trying to lay out thst you were wrong and why.

Thank you. I agree that Rich seems to have come down heavily in favor of the evil afterlives being unpleasant. Despite being a two page comic in crayon, Jirix' story feels like the exception, not the example. I think Rich didn't think about it much. I think he wanted Jirix to have a motivational story about his encounter with The Dark One, so he gave him one.

OTOH, it's a thing in the comic that a lot of monsters are literally born Evil, and there's a squishy part of me that wonders if Rich has a squishy part that regrets consigning a bunch of monsters to eternal torment just for doing what the gods designed them to do.

Reminds me of a very old joke whose punch line is "OK, break's over, back on your heads!"

The version of that I found online makes me think he still got off lightly.

[Peelee]

OTOH, it's a thing in the comic that a lot of monsters are literally born Evil

This is not a thing in the comic at all, and the author has explicitly stated his disdain for that idea. I do not know where you came up with this idea, but it certainly wasn't from the comic.

[Provengreil]

I'm down with The Dark One setting up a show afterlife because he knew Jirix was headed back out. I mean, it makes me really uncomfortable, but it would be Evil.

I think the Dark One's aberrant nature is in play here. Remember, he wasn't sponsored into deific status by anyone, and has his own color. However, he's still getting goblin souls. This begs a question: Where were those souls destined before he rose?

My interpretation here is that we can't really use TDO's realm as a metric for anything, as it was created outside the normal structures and might even be stealing souls from the normal stream. I'm sure the Fiends' artifact is related to a similar purpose.

[Kish]

"When I died I went to my god's realm, to an afterlife especially determined by him" is very standard in D&D.

I would also point out that Durkon likewise went to Valhalla, whereas if it was purely by alignment, we already saw where Lawful Good characters go.

[Ruck]

"When I died I went to my god's realm, to an afterlife especially determined by him" is very standard in D&D.

I would also point out that Durkon likewise went to Valhalla, whereas if it was purely by alignment, we already saw where Lawful Good characters go.

Yeah, I was just going to say something like this. I imagine The Dark One's afterlife doesn't follow the typical "evil" afterlife progression but more reflects on the kind of god he is. In this case, from what we know, it seems that he leads an army of his followers into whatever kind of afterlife battles there are, appropriate considering what he did in life and especially how he was raised to godhood.

[Edreyn]

This is not a thing in the comic at all, and the author has explicitly stated his disdain for that idea. I do now know where you came up with this idea, but it certainly wasn't from the comic.

I understood it that way, that author says that monstrous humanoids like goblins, lizardmen, kobolds etc are born innocent.
Black dragons, chimeras and other non humanoid are still usually evil.

[Kish]

I'd suggest reconsidering.

[Edreyn]

I am talking about comic itself. I don't remember heroes ever meeting baby or children of non humanoid monsters. First black dragon still was old enough to swallow Haley, even that second one said he was her son.

[Kish]

I am talking about comic itself. I don't remember heroes ever meeting baby or children of non humanoid monsters. First black dragon still was old enough to swallow Haley, even that second one said he was her son.

...based on the lack of children appearing onstage, you think Rich is writing something he's loudly and repeatedly expressed finding morally abhorrent?

Have fun with that.

(Setting aside the jump from "the author says" to "talking about the comic itself" between your two posts.)

[KorvinStarmast]

...based on the lack of children appearing onstage,

What lack?
Hilgya's son.
The kids (Righte eye's) in SoD.
The goblin teenagers in DCF.
Pickpockets in the beginning of BRitF.
V and Inky's kids.
(The scene where Roy has reunion with Eric in the afterlife doesn't really count, though)

That's just off the top of my head. (No desire to re-read the entire opus to find the other examples).

[Edreyn]

Yes, there are quite a few humanoid children in comic, including prequels, but not children of monster races.
Also, Kish, I can't track every author's post. The idea about goblin children being innocent was one of major lines from the beginning, the author does a solid job presenting it to us
But nothing is said in comic about usual monsters.

[Tubercular Ox]

Imagine how different this could've been had I said always evil instead of born evil.

[Peelee]

Yes, there are quite a few humanoid children in comic, including prequels, but not children of monster races.
Also, Kish, I can't track every author's post. The idea about goblin children being innocent was one of major lines from the beginning, the author does a solid job presenting it to us
But nothing is said in comic about usual monsters.

Then good news, you dont need to track thid specific author's every post, because we will kindly provide it for you if you are not aware!

Imagine how different this could've been had I said always evil instead of born evil.

Exactly the same, since that comic is pretty transparently lampooning the idea as racism?

[Kish]

Even beyond what Rich has said, I'm having a real hard time seeing where this line between Redcloak ("born innocent") and Sunny ("usual monsters") would make any sense except from a perspective of "evil is inherent, unchangeable, and inborn" surely applying to someone.

[Tubercular Ox]

Jebus. I was just curious if black dragons get punished for being black dragons, or if there's a staff discount of some sort that lets them be with their families. Y'all are having arguments that are way over my head.

[Peelee]

Jebus. I was just curious if black dragons get punished for being black dragons, or if there's a staff discount of some sort that lets them be with their families. Y'all are having arguments that are way over my head.

"Black dragons being punished for being black dragons," is a very simple version of racism, yes.

And the "staff discount" you linked to has been also characterized as "genocide" by the author. With the added claim of "and genocide is bad, guys".

[Kish]

The ox is pointing to the line "I was with my son and husband."

I suspect, just as worshipers of Thor go to Thor's realm without regard for their alignment, and worshipers of the Dark One go to the Dark One's realm, all chromatic dragons go to Tiamat.

[Peelee]

Yep, I misunderstood that part

[Tubercular Ox]

One Get Out of Jail Free card says the Monster in the Dark is connected to the Snarl somehow. Maybe the Snarl created it (or its father, or etc). Or literally fathered it (or its father, or etc), knowingly or unknowingly. Or maybe the Monster in the Dark's species lives on the planet inside the rifts, and the Monster in the Dark (or its father) is a refugee/escapee/unwillingly evicted. I dunno, there are other choices. We'll all know if I win the bet.

Yep, I misunderstood that part

I'm so sorry, I definitely should have called out a panel on that one.

[Metastachydium]

One Get Out of Jail Free card says the Monster in the Dark is connected to the Snarl somehow. Maybe the Snarl created it (or its father, or etc). Or literally fathered it (or its father, or etc), knowingly or unknowingly. Or maybe the Monster in the Dark's species lives on the planet inside the rifts, and the Monster in the Dark (or its father) is a refugee/escapee/unwillingly evicted. I dunno, there are other choices. We'll all know if I win the bet.

Well, it's your Get Out of Jail Free card lost…

[brian 333]

One Get Out of Jail Free card says the Monster in the Dark is connected to the Snarl somehow. Maybe the Snarl created it (or its father, or etc). Or literally fathered it (or its father, or etc), knowingly or unknowingly. Or maybe the Monster in the Dark's species lives on the planet inside the rifts, and the Monster in the Dark (or its father) is a refugee/escapee/unwillingly evicted. I dunno, there are other choices. We'll all know if I win the bet.



I'm so sorry, I definitely should have called out a panel on that one.

I have a "You have won second prize in a beauty contest, collect $10" card that The Snarl and MitD have no prior connection when they meet on page. I back that with an M.C. Escher painting from Masterpiece that MitD also has no part in defeating/ mitigating The Snarl.

P.S.
I wonder why that torture device known as a vase, (vaz if you are pretentious,) was not used as weapon in clue? I mean, look at what they do to flowers.