Challenge: Inverse Ninja Law Mechanic

[Wraithy]

How would you apply Inverse Ninja Law in 3.5e?
It would probably be unfair to only have it affect members of the ninja class as there have been many non ninja ninjas (Thieves and Rougues wearing black pyjamas) throughout the history of D&D.

Would you make it a Feat? a Stance or Manuver? an outright mechanic like AoO's and 5ft steps? Maybe even a Skill Check?

[Reinboom]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...97&postcount=8 ...?

Though, truly, if it's a law, I would say all characters with a base reflex of x (7? 8? dunno) has it automatically.
Otherwise a feat. (though without the ninja req)

[Ganurath]

How about basic tactics? A ninja's main strength is stealth, and striking targets without being detected. The more ninja there are, the more likely you'll be able to find one. As their numbers are whittled down by security, it becomes progressively harder to locate, contain, and defeat a ninja, particularly since those competent enough to stay hidden from X duration are most likely to be more competent in combat than those exposed before them.

[Closet_Skeleton]

You're taking things too literally. Ninja do not get weaker the more of them there are. Weak Ninja attack in groups, strong Ninja attack alone. Just make some Ninja higher level than others.

Jeeze, it's just a metaphore.

[Roderick_BR]

I think one of the maneuvers of Elusive Target (Complete Warrior, Complete Adventurer, or PHB2, I can't recall) actually allows you to dodge out of the way of an attacker when you are flanked, in a way that makes the enemy hit his ally at your other side, instead.

[Wraithy]

Jeeze, it's just a metaphore.

and this thread wasn't supposed to be serious

[sikyon]

Simple.

CR 10 encounter.

Either I send in 4 CR 6 ninjas, or 1 CR 10 ninja.

And it's probably eaisier to beat 4 CR 6 ninjas than a CR 10 ninja, because many classes don't have power scale proportionally (say wizards).

[Mr.Moron]

I'd probably do it with something like a swarm. A single creature that represents a whole slew of ninjas, but has combat statistics on the whole that are actually below what a single "Real" ninja would have.

[streakster]

The Inverse Ninja Law

First, rate how awesome ninjas are, with 15 being "Nay-root-toe!!!1lol11!" and 1 being "Monks in pajamas." Any numeric value may be used. Then, divide this number by the number of extant, living ninjas in the encounter. Should the encounter in any way involve zombie ninjas, vampire ninjas, or ghost ninjas, the word "living" may be struck from this law. The resulting number is the ninja modifier, or NM. If the NM is below one, the NM is instead set at negative 5. The NM may be applied to any ninja's abilities, as they choose, and can be changed as a free action. A negative NM is instead applied to all abilities. Ninjas may not die as a result of NM damage to their stats - it is treated as a penalty. No ninja may elect not to use the NM. Should only one ninja remain, that ninja may add or subtract the NM to any numeric value that in some way involves him that he pleases, including but not limited to saving throws, abilities, Hit Points, Hit Dice, BaB, Grapple Checks, and damage, with no action required. The NM may only apply to one value in this case (hereafter referred to as the "death on rollerblades" period), though it may be changed to affect a different value a number of times equal to the awesome rating of ninjas, per round played in the "death on rollerskates" period.


Errata:
This law is nonfunctional should there be a pirate (living or undead) in the encounter.

Errata v1.1:
Nautical Pirates only, software and music pirates merely subtract one from the awesome rating.

Errata v1.2:
Insert the words "of ninjas" at the end of the last Errata.

[zaei]

Have it be similar to the 2e druid progression. The maximum level of any ninja is inversely proportional to the number of ninjas in existence.

[Indon]

I'd do what other systems do with 'mook'-type groups:

A party of ninja, regardless of size, may take one collective action. So, one ninja could attack once, use an ability once, move, and so on.

The slowness would be absurd, allowing for scenarios such as the one that takes place during the next few pages of this wacky and popular webcomic about ninjas!

[Lyinginbedmon]

I believe the realistic theory behind the Inverse Ninja Law is that Ninjas are based on freedom of movement (Not the spell). They shift about being quiet and stealthy and then silently assassinate their target. If you've got, say, 300 of them, they won't have nearly enough room to maneouvre and will just bump into eachother half the time and the other half they won't have an opening to their target for all their friends in the way.

So it's really more "smart ninjas attack alone" than "powerful ninjas attack alone", though one could easily become the latter via the former.

[Indon]

So it's really more "smart ninjas attack alone" than "powerful ninjas attack alone", though one could easily become the latter via the former.

I think it's more due to a frequent use of a ridiculous trend in popular culture, as with many tropes and fictional trends.

[Tengu]

I'd do it similarly to streakster, but simpler.

Set a number. It should be higher than the highest level in the party, and generally in the 10-20 range. That's the level of a single ninja. If there are more ninjas than one, distribute those levels equally between them, to a minimum of 1 (for example, if the level is 10 and there are 3 ninjas, one of them is level 4 and the other two are level 3). Prepare stats for ninjas at all levels, because those levels are going to change fluidly as the number of ninjas changes - if one of those gets defeated, the other two are level 5 now, but if one more joins the battle, than the ninjas are level 3, 3, 2 and 2 now.

[Roderick_BR]

I'd do it similarly to streakster, but simpler.

Set a number. It should be higher than the highest level in the party, and generally in the 10-20 range. That's the level of a single ninja. If there are more ninjas than one, distribute those levels equally between them, to a minimum of 1 (for example, if the level is 10 and there are 3 ninjas, one of them is level 4 and the other two are level 3). Prepare stats for ninjas at all levels, because those levels are going to change fluidly as the number of ninjas changes - if one of those gets defeated, the other two are level 5 now, but if one more joins the battle, than the ninjas are level 3, 3, 2 and 2 now.

That would be a logistic nightmare, but would be fun to throw at a party sometime.

[Lemur]

Simple.

CR 10 encounter.

Either I send in 4 CR 6 ninjas, or 1 CR 10 ninja.

And it's probably eaisier to beat 4 CR 6 ninjas than a CR 10 ninja, because many classes don't have power scale proportionally (say wizards).

This is how I've always thought about the Inverse Ninja Law in relation to D&D.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Hmm...perhaps...

Ninja working in groups larger than 2 have an effective number of negative levels equal to the number of ninja in the party -2 (ex. 3 is a -1 penalty, 4 is -2 etc.). This penalty per ninja is limited to the level of the ninja -1, that is if a ninja is level N, the number of negative levels is N-1.

As ninja's in the party die, or are defeated, the remaining ninja are allowed a DC 10 fort save to remove a negative level. Further, any ninja within 100' of a comrade dying gains a +1 'ninja fury' bonus on all rolls, AC, SR, DR, and saves for the remainder of the encounter. The 'ninja fury' bonus only applies if the ninja is more than 100' away from another alied ninja. The bonus stacks up to the level of the ninja. All bonuses for ninja are recalculated at the end of each turn.

So...if 10 level 10 ninja are in a team, each has 8 negative levels. If 2 ninja die, the ninja then have 6 negative leves and a +2 'ninja fury' bonus. The final 2 ninja will have +8 ninja 'fury' modifier...this modifier will only apply if the ninja's are more than 100" from each other.

as a feat, high level ninja can get the ability 'ninja master' which ommits the master from gaining negative levels from being near ninja's with a level 1/2 his or less. The master still is able to gain the 'ninja fury' bonus.

Any ninja who travels more than 1 mile from the ninja party is out of the group and loses all negative levels and bonuses from being in the ninja party.

-----------------------------------------

There...that should work pretty well...

[Woot Spitum]

Poser ninjas attack in groups, real ninjas only work alone. If more than one real ninja is looking to make a specific kill, they fight to the death for the right to make said kill. They do not attack together.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Since Sudden Strike doesn't work with flanking, Ninja are crap at fighting in groups compared to Rogues.

Then again, Sudden Strike is the worse idea ever.

Imagined WotC Games Designer meeting for Complete Adventurer:

Spoiler

Show

WotC Games Designer 1: The other Complete Books contained unneccesary Oriental Classes, so I think it's obvious what to do for complete adventurer.

WotC Games Designer 2: A Base Class for Malay Pirates? Those would be really rogueish.

WotC Games Designer 1: No you dolt, a Ninja of course.

WotC Games Designer 2: But we already have Monks, Assassins and Rogues, Ninja don't really have anything thematically unique that we haven't covered already.

Evil Voice of Hasbro: My foolish apprentice, selling people things they already have is one of the key powers of the dark side.

WotC Games Designer 1: We'll just make them like the rogue and the monk combined. Then we can give them something that's like Sneak Attack, but subtly differant in interesting ways.

WotC Games Designer 3: "Subtly differant in interesting ways?" The tactical part of the demographic will love this, but what do you have in mind?

WotC Games Designer 1: We can make it work when you're moving, that'll encourage Ninja-like acrobatics.

WotC Games Designer 3: Sorry, we're doing that with the Scout already. The Ninja will have to do something else.

WotC Games Designer 1: Oh well, scratch that, just make it sneak attack but weaker and pretend it's unique.

[Lyinginbedmon]

Poser ninjas attack in groups, real ninjas only work alone. If more than one real ninja is looking to make a specific kill, they fight to the death for the right to make said kill. They do not attack together.

Interesting...