Tomboys and Troublemakers Part V: Zut Zut Zut and a Bottle of Bordeleaux

[MrAbdiel]

Look idk if I can do this anymore. I’m just not feeling motivated

I get it man. You've hung in for ages, longer by far than most DMs stick for most games on this site, much less ones they have adopted after they fell through. If you need to take a week to think about it or something, then do so, and we'll be here when you get back.

But if you have been thinking about this for a while and you've actually been tormenting yourself and getting depressed about how to bring it up without feeling like you've let anyone down, then we will understand that too. We appreciate you a lot, Bramble. You can be straight with us, and running an indefinite game for this long is more than anyone could have asked.

[farothel]

Indeed, and you actually let us know instead of ghosting, as I've seen many here do as well (both GMs and players). If you need to take a break or want to stop, no worries. It has to stay fun and when it's not anymore, take a break or stop.

[wilphe]

What they said

[bramblefoot]

alvight. you do not know how much effort it took to write that

everyone gimme an epilogue. feel free to go into as much detail as you want and then we'll call it

its been fun yall

[MrAbdiel]

alvight. you do not know how much effort it took to write that

everyone gimme an epilogue. feel free to go into as much detail as you want and then we'll call it

its been fun yall

You’re a champ, Bramble. You picked up this game ages ago when we were all keen to play but our last GM had dropped off the face of the earth, you told us what you could offer and then you carried us all this way. It’s been fun collaborating with you and bringing the story all this way.

But hey, we don’t have to chop the story here. Look, I’ll grab the ball here and run it into the end zone for all the Bretonnia stuff. That’s my jam anyway so I have a bunch of it preconstructed in my head. Once Mousillon and Bordeleaux’s adventures have wrapped up, we’ll have a chat here about whether we want to call the game, or fish for a new GM to take us on the treasure hunt arc, or whatever. But whatever happens, we’ll be okay.

Thanks for everything Bramble. If you want to stick around just to read and commentate when you feel like it, feel free; but if you dip, no hard feelings at all. Getting a group through multiple threads on GitP is like a 1:100 ratio for GMs and you should be proud of that.

[MrAbdiel]

- Presuming that me taking over to GM for a while suits everyone else in the game, anyway.

[BananaPhone]

Big shoes to fill.

[wilphe]

The King is dead sleeping!

Long live the King!

[LarsWester]

I'll stay in the game. I feel like I just returned. Bramblefoot you're a better man than I am for carrying this game for so long. I've never DM'd past a single thread. But I've been in several games that never made it past page 2. Thank you for all your efforts my man and enjoy having this weight off your plate.

[MrAbdiel]

Appreciate the confidence guys. I’ll wait to hear from Farothel and Dojango before I make any moves, just for full buy in.

[farothel]

works for me.

[dojango]

Yeah Mr.Abdiel can take over that would be cool. I have to say that Bramble's style of GMing was pretty cool and I have taken a few of his ideas and run with them so thanks for running this for us.

[MrAbdiel]

Alright guys. I appreciate it. Thanks again Bramble; you are now, and will forever remain, an absolute bro.

I'll post in the IC soon. It's a fortunate thing that I've been playing Bertelis as averse to unilateral leadership and slowly losing his mind, because from this point on you will all have to assume I have ulterior GM motives when he introduces information!

[BananaPhone]

It is the only beautiful thing about the city so far as you can tell; perhaps the only beautiful thing you will see for a long time.

Until Regine returns.

[MrAbdiel]

Until Regine returns.

Until then!

Also, I think I might run some house rules or ideas for tweaks I would like to use by you guys as they come to me. But right now, here's what's on my mind:

Roleplay Rebate: Buying a skill or Weapon Group Talent out of your class advance structure costs 200 XP, and you may not use this to buy +10, +20, or Talents normally. However, after you take a few opportunities in character to formalize that skill by learning it from someone (ideally within the party), you may have 100XP back. Some common sense applies - you can learn how to speak Arabyan, but learn the forbidden knowledge of Daemonology this way. Just... be sensible.

Example: Bertelis wants to use a Tilean pike he has found, but can't buy Specialist Weapon Group (Two Handed) for a few careers yet. He spends 200XP to buy it (not in the middle of combat like a psychopath) and writes Bertelis as using the pike somewhat basically for a while; but starts looking for opportunities to train with Gimgroth, who has spent enough time around Tileans to know how to handle a pike. After three such scenes across their adventures, Bertelis appeals to the GM and is granted his Roleplay Rebate of 100XP.


Another is a bit of a rework of the Best Quality weapons. Right now, as they stand, they don't really work. Best Handaxe + Shield is the objectively best weapon combination, and cheaper than others. Best Pick is strictly the worst (Slow and Armor Piercing, and half again as expensive as the axe?), Hammer is lackluster at best, and the sword is crazy expensive just to give you Defensive... which you already get if you're using a shield. And Great Weapons are just not worthwhile; the free parry from dual wielding with a shield is just too valuable to consider them, especially when you get impact on your axe. This is probably leading to a buff for most weapons, and probably some kind of nerf for axes. Impact feels like it should be reserved for great weapons, or tiring weapons.

For example, compare the Best Handaxe to the Best Greataxe.

- - - - - -
- - - - - , -

Weapon	Price	Encumbrance	Weapon Group	Damage	Special Rules	Availability
Handaxe	60GC	45Enc	Ordinary	SB	Impact	Scarce
Greataxe	120GC	180Enc	Two-Handed	SB+1	Impact, Slow, Tiring	Scarce

So a Great Axe costs 2x, weighs 4x, requires 100xp worth of talent, gives your enemy +10% to defend, and only gets Impact on the first round of engagement.... for +1 damage.

That's awful. It means that no one ever uses great weapons except enemies, and everyone is quietly looking for an opportunity to get a hold of a Best Handaxe. And no one ever uses a spear, despite it being the second most iconic weapon for a warhammer soldier to hold!

WFRP2e is a great game, but it has its little lacunae of bad rulings. I'd like to do something that means characters actually are incentivised to use different weapon types. It's sad that no dwarf ever wants to be stuck with a pick, and a Bretonnian is left grimacing at his family sword.

However: You have my solemn vow that I will not make any detrimental changes without talking about them here, and they will not suddenly apply in the middle of a hazardous situation. And if you happen to have, for example, a Best Handaxe, and you decide it no longer serves your interest like it previously did, fate will be suspiciously kind in arranging compensation.

I'll think about specifics on that one and update later.

[farothel]

Time to let Bruno shine. He's not the best fighter, but he can talk his way out of a lot of situations. It's good not to make charisma your dump stat.

The idea of naming some of our enemies is to have two things happen: some people are probably very afraid of those and will want to move away from those who openly challenge these, others will have information we can use. I hope to thin out the crowd of the cowards and then have the others give us some information that we can use.

Question: what does the company blade do again? I know it's magical, but I'm not sure what it does exactly.

[wilphe]

FP that

(1d100)[24]

[wilphe]

Well Wighard is doing a "I know medicine"

[farothel]

what do you mean 'low profile'. We're a group that's been let through by the border guards, we're obviously not criminals/smugglers. I'm sure that within an hour all those groups we're looking for will know we're there, no matter what we do. And this way they might also underestimate us, which can be to our advantage.

[wilphe]

So much for a low profile


Kwolf is a very sarcastic bird


No one was gonna believe we were so misinformed as to come here for the waters. Stay high, don't want you ripped apart as a holy relic


Wighard is well aware that everyone will realise our arrival here spells trouble for someone and there is no point pretending otherwise hence the Casablanca reference


Its possibly a genius move for Bruno to mention a whole bunch of people we don't have beef with, even if it might make us new and exciting enemies, but then that is just an alibi

Wighard meanwhile is implying a "I only treat you if we succeed and live, so it is in your best interest to want us to"

[wilphe]

Roleplay Rebate: Buying a skill or Weapon Group Talent out of your class advance structure costs 200 XP, and you may not use this to buy +10, +20, or Talents normally. However, after you take a few opportunities in character to formalize that skill by learning it from someone (ideally within the party), you may have 100XP back. Some common sense applies - you can learn how to speak Arabyan, but learn the forbidden knowledge of Daemonology this way. Just... be sensible.

21/6/22
Arcane Lore (Order of Aetius the Bright) CC

20/7/22
Animal Care CC

16/9/22
+1 Magic CC

31/10/22
Command CC

18/12/22
Petty Magic Hedge CC


15/3/23
Banish
Illuminate the Edifice

23/5/23
Lesser magic (Bind)

2/8/23
Dodge Blow CC
Light's Demand

18/4/24
Lesser Magic - Shadowblood


Well that's Wighard's list of out of career buys

Magic and the Arcane Lore were part of the story agreement with Bramble to reflect the unusual aspect of his promotion (and it will be up to discuss if you want to to keep that going if he takes another non-magic career next)

Most of the rest are Extra spells (which aren't in any career anyway) and Lesser magics and I don't regard 100XP for one spell as unreasonable

Getting Petty Magic Hedge was part of his bond with Siobhan and setting up his task for Manaan

The three CC skills were all RPed out:

Animal Care as pre-Req for Familiar

Command because he was issuing orders post-battle

Dodge Blow because by that point it would be stupid not to given the amount of fights we've got into


Does this work for you, because under the model you've proposed he would get those 300XP back










I will think on weapons later, for the moment I will only say that Tiring is dumb

[MrAbdiel]

Wighard is well aware that everyone will realise our arrival here spells trouble for someone and there is no point pretending otherwise hence the Casablanca reference

As long as you take care in Mousillon - there are wultures; wultures everywhere.

21/6/22
Arcane Lore (Order of Aetius the Bright) CC

20/7/22
Animal Care CC

16/9/22
+1 Magic CC

31/10/22
Command CC

18/12/22
Petty Magic Hedge CC


15/3/23
Banish
Illuminate the Edifice

23/5/23
Lesser magic (Bind)

2/8/23
Dodge Blow CC
Light's Demand

18/4/24
Lesser Magic - Shadowblood


Well that's Wighard's list of out of career buys

Magic and the Arcane Lore were part of the story agreement with Bramble to reflect the unusual aspect of his promotion (and it will be up to discuss if you want to to keep that going if he takes another non-magic career next)

Most of the rest are Extra spells (which aren't in any career anyway) and Lesser magics and I don't regard 100XP for one spell as unreasonable

Getting Petty Magic Hedge was part of his bond with Siobhan and setting up his task for Manaan

The three CC skills were all RPed out:

Animal Care as pre-Req for Familiar

Command because he was issuing orders post-battle

Dodge Blow because by that point it would be stupid not to given the amount of fights we've got into


Does this work for you, because under the model you've proposed he would get those 300XP back


I will think on weapons later, for the moment I will only say that Tiring is dumb

No issues with the Magic +1 buy. Presumably at some point you will advance up the wizard track again and at that point, it's just an advance you took early. Same with Hedge magic. Generally I don't think talents and attributes should be available cross class outside of special circumstances but I'm not super interested to excavate the last few years of character advancement to conform to my new whims, and also I think those are, as you say, justified by their circumstances. Spells are fine too; as long as we collaborate about the research of such spells and whether it's realistic to have done so and acheived it, that's good for me.

Now, as for the skills.

Animal Care: You've been doktor wenig tun for a while now. I'm satisfied with this. Take your 100XP rebate.
Command: You'll have a situation not too far in the future where you'll have a chance to do some commanding. When that happens, you'll get your rebate for that purchase.
Dodge: It's true, he's been learning dodge the hard way. Still - if you can give me a little RP scene polishing up your footwork with one of your companions who has more extensive in-career combat training, you'll earn this rebate. Next time the party beds down for the evening will be fine.

And yes, Tiring is dumb. A bunch of the rules are dumb; but I'm trying to restrain myself with this overhaul because WFRP is simulating an aesthetic rather than period accuracy. The idea that a fellow with a rapier can reasonably parry a zweihander at all is laughable; but the fantasy aesthetic is big-slow-weapon-do-more-damage and little-fast-weapon-more-defensive and that's about as deep as it goes. I'm resisting the urge to uproot the whole thing mid campaign, but I definitely want to do something that makes Best Quality Weapons more diversely rewarding, Great Weapons worth considering, and Good Quality Weapons worth considering.

[BananaPhone]

Until then!

Also, I think I might run some house rules or ideas for tweaks I would like to use by you guys as they come to me. But right now, here's what's on my mind:

Roleplay Rebate: Buying a skill or Weapon Group Talent out of your class advance structure costs 200 XP, and you may not use this to buy +10, +20, or Talents normally. However, after you take a few opportunities in character to formalize that skill by learning it from someone (ideally within the party), you may have 100XP back. Some common sense applies - you can learn how to speak Arabyan, but learn the forbidden knowledge of Daemonology this way. Just... be sensible.

Example: Bertelis wants to use a Tilean pike he has found, but can't buy Specialist Weapon Group (Two Handed) for a few careers yet. He spends 200XP to buy it (not in the middle of combat like a psychopath) and writes Bertelis as using the pike somewhat basically for a while; but starts looking for opportunities to train with Gimgroth, who has spent enough time around Tileans to know how to handle a pike. After three such scenes across their adventures, Bertelis appeals to the GM and is granted his Roleplay Rebate of 100XP.


Another is a bit of a rework of the Best Quality weapons. Right now, as they stand, they don't really work. Best Handaxe + Shield is the objectively best weapon combination, and cheaper than others. Best Pick is strictly the worst (Slow and Armor Piercing, and half again as expensive as the axe?), Hammer is lackluster at best, and the sword is crazy expensive just to give you Defensive... which you already get if you're using a shield. And Great Weapons are just not worthwhile; the free parry from dual wielding with a shield is just too valuable to consider them, especially when you get impact on your axe. This is probably leading to a buff for most weapons, and probably some kind of nerf for axes. Impact feels like it should be reserved for great weapons, or tiring weapons.

For example, compare the Best Handaxe to the Best Greataxe.

- - - - - -
- - - - - , -

Weapon	Price	Encumbrance	Weapon Group	Damage	Special Rules	Availability
Handaxe	60GC	45Enc	Ordinary	SB	Impact	Scarce
Greataxe	120GC	180Enc	Two-Handed	SB+1	Impact, Slow, Tiring	Scarce

So a Great Axe costs 2x, weighs 4x, requires 100xp worth of talent, gives your enemy +10% to defend, and only gets Impact on the first round of engagement.... for +1 damage.

That's awful. It means that no one ever uses great weapons except enemies, and everyone is quietly looking for an opportunity to get a hold of a Best Handaxe. And no one ever uses a spear, despite it being the second most iconic weapon for a warhammer soldier to hold!

WFRP2e is a great game, but it has its little lacunae of bad rulings. I'd like to do something that means characters actually are incentivised to use different weapon types. It's sad that no dwarf ever wants to be stuck with a pick, and a Bretonnian is left grimacing at his family sword.

However: You have my solemn vow that I will not make any detrimental changes without talking about them here, and they will not suddenly apply in the middle of a hazardous situation. And if you happen to have, for example, a Best Handaxe, and you decide it no longer serves your interest like it previously did, fate will be suspiciously kind in arranging compensation.

I'll think about specifics on that one and update later.

Now that I'm sober (sorry about that), I'm fine with tweaking the weapons to make each more appealing.

[MrAbdiel]

Current MrAbdiel Patch Beta, please read and comment if anything seems too good/too nerf/too incomprehensible. Some of it, like the Infighting mechanic, is just an explication of something that is implicit in the rules about adding difficulties in circumstances. Having a swordfight in an outhouse should penalize the guy with the zweihander. But it needed to be made explicit because of my adjustment of the grapple mechanics, etc etc etc. It looks like a lot, but I think it's not too bad. Don't let it scare you off!

Spoiler: MrAbdiel’s WFRP2e Weapons and Combat Rework

Show

Problems:

Best Quality Axes are the objectively best Melee Weapon because Impact is amazing.
Two Handed Weapons become pointless after Best Axes are available.
Two Handed Weapon drawbacks make them undesirable.
Blunderbuss and Duckfeet provide too little guidance and do wildly erratic damage.
Many weapons, with the rules as presented, provide little or incentive for use at all. They include: Buckler, Dagger, Flail, Halberd, Main Gauche, Spear, Sword Breaker
Fate spiral sucks
Buying skills outside of career sucks


New/Revised Mechanics

Infighting:
Fighting in restricted conditions dramatically reduces one’s ability to wield weapons - especially those designed to be used at a safe remove from the enemy. In Partial Infighting conditions (skulking through a low ceilinged cave, brawling through a cramped slum corridor), Weapon Skill and Ballistic Skill tests may be at a penalty from -10% to -30%. In Total Infighting conditions (fighting in the middle of a crushing press of a melee, inside a drainpipe, or inside of a grapple), it becomes impossible to use weapons of any length or heft at all. Weapons with the Compact quality ignore these penalties.

Grappling:
Instead of inflicting damage, a character can attempt to grapple and immobilize an opponent. A character can attempt a grapple with either a charge attack or a standard attack. This is resolved as follows. First, the character must hit with an unarmed attack, then (if successful) the
opponent must take an Agility Test. If he fails, he is grappled. Both characters are incapable of dodging or parrying for the duration of the grapple, and any outside melee attacks against them gain a +20% Weapon Skill bonus. A grappled character can attempt to break the grapple, (a full action, Opposed Strength), or grapple his opponent (so that they are both grappling each other!), but is otherwise in Total Infighting conditions and can only move himself and his opponent by use of the Maneuver action. On the grappling character’s turn, he can take a full action to simply maintain the grapple (this requires no roll) or he can attempt to damage his opponent, by attacking in Total Infighting conditions; or by an Opposed Strength Test. If the grappling character wins this, he inflicts normal unarmed damage. If his opponent wins, no damage is inflicted but the character is still grappled. A grappling character can voluntarily end the grapple on any of his turns. This is a free action.

Two Weapon Fighting:
A character with a melee weapon in each hand, a melee weapon in one and a shield in the other, or any credible combination of two weapons wielded simultaneously are considered to be engaging in Two Weapon Fighting. They may attack using the weapon in either hand. Weapons in the secondary hand suffer a -20% WS or BS penalty, as appropriate. A character who is dual wielding gains a ‘free’ parry attempt once per round, which does count as their single parry attempt for the turn.

Dire Straits: Sometimes you don’t get to dictate the way you fight - you just play the hand you’re dealt! When improvising a weapon, if the improvised object is appropriate, it may do 2 less damage in exchange for the Pummelling or Compact qualities. Thus, an improvised shiv does SB-6 (Compact); and an improvised bludgeon does SB-6 (Pummeling).

A character can attempt to wield a normally two-handed weapon in one hand, but doing so means they take a -30% to their attacks, and the weapon loses the Impact quality if it had it while used this way. This may be better than fighting unarmed, but it will almost always be better to change weapons!

Shooting at Groups:
When firing at groups of enemies, if the shooter has no preference of which enemy is hit, they gain ‘gang-up’ bonuses to their accuracy. Therefore, to hit one of two enemies marching shoulder to shoulder would be at +10% BS to hit, as would firing indiscriminately at a mount and rider. Firing into a mob of three or more goblins scrambling over each other to attack you would be at +20%. Note that these bonuses can offset the ‘Shooting into Melee’ penalty - it is much easier to avoid hitting your friends when they are covered in your enemies!

Dynamic Combat Action:
This is a variation on the “Action, Action, Action” suggestion on page 131 of the WFRP2e rulebook. In that suggestion, all combatants have three half actions, instead of two. In this one, combatants get a third half action that is restricted in its use to certain avenues. Your Dynamic action is always taken at the end of your turn, after any other actions you take that turn. The following actions can only be performed as dynamic actions.

Follow-Through: A character who is Two Weapon Fighting, or wielding a halberd or quarterstaff, can make an additional attack, provided they have taken one of the Swift Attack, All Out Attack, or Standard Attack actions this turn. In most cases, this attack is made with the character’s Secondary Hand weapon. This attack is at a penalty of -15% WS or BS as appropriate. In most cases, this means the attack is coming at a total of -35% (with the normal Off Hand penalty of -20% folded in). For halberd or quarterstaff users, this attack is made using the quarterstaff or the butt of the polearm. In either case, the attack uses the quarterstaff profile as if it were wieldied in the Off Hand.

Zone Control: A character wielding a two handed weapon in melee (Great Weapon, Flail, Halberd, Quarterstaff) can sweep their weapon about in threatening arcs, using the reach and momentum of their assault to control the flow of combat. A character can only use Zone Control in a turn they have one of the Swift Attack, All Out Attack, Standard Attack, or Full Defense actions. An enemy attacking a character using Zone Control takes a -10% penalty to their attacks, and cannot benefit from outnumbering the character that round.

Compensate: A character wielding a missile weapon may use their dynamic action to compensate for wind, enemy movement, or any number of factors transpiring since their last shot. If they have taken the Swift or Standard attack actions this turn, they may Aim and apply that bonus to an attack as their first action in the following turn. This may be a Standard Attack, or the first attack of a Swift Attack. If the character elects to do anything other than attack on that following turn, this bonus is lost.

Rechannel: A spellcaster may use their dynamic action to wrangle and cycle the winds of magic. If the caster successfully channeled and failed to cast a spell, or failed to channel and successfully cast a spell, or failed both, they may spend their dynamic action capturing the unused winds of magic before they dissipate. This is an additional, secondary use of the Channeling skill at a -15% penalty. If successful, the caster can make their Channeling skill roll next turn at a +15% bonus. If the caster had successfully channeled and cast this turn, they have used the winds so efficiently that they cannot Rechannel any this turn. If they successfully Rechannel, but elect not to channel as their next action, this bonus is lost.

Drive/Ride: A character who is driving a vehicle or riding a mount can use their dynamic action to control their vehicle or mount beyond the normal operation integrated into the turn. This may involve ramming, matching another rider’s speed, or regaining control of the vehicle or mount; or any other use the GM considers valid.

Generic Uses of Dynamic Actions: If none of these actions apply, a character still use their dynamic action in a variety of ways. Any character may use their Dynamic Action to Ready, Reload, Dismount, Drop Prone, or else interact with the combat environment in some way like opening or closing a door, snuffing a candle, or performing a Perception test at -15% as a matter of general combat awareness.

Weapons

New/Updated Qualities

Compact: This weapon is small enough that it can be used even in tight, desperate combat conditions. Compact melee weapons can be used in Partial Infighting and Total Infighting conditions without penalty. Compact weapons of all kinds can also be concealed, providing a -20% to any Search or Perception tests to find or spot them on a character, or hidden in an area.

Bold: This weapon is too big and obvious to ever be concealed on a person, or even ‘put away’ in a scabbard, boot, or sling. Bold weapons cannot be placed in bags or slung on the back with the Ready action; they must be carried in at least one hand, usually at rest on the shoulder, or else dropped. It’s not all bad news: most people in the Old World are used to the sight of a guard with a halberd on his shoulder as a reassuring beat of normal life, when a drawn knife may trigger alarm. Under most conditions, Bold weapons can be carried at rest and are already at hand if combat breaks out. They do not need to be drawn, and outside of areas where weapons are prohibited completely, they are unlikely to be perceived as a threat in the same way a smaller weapon will be.

Proven (X): This weapon is a reliable damage dealer, and even awkward blows leave terrible wounds. When a Proven weapon deals damage, the D10 rolled for damage has a minimum value of ‘X’. Thus, a weapon with Proven (3) will treat a 1 or a 2 on the damage dice as a 3.

Armor Piercing (X): This weapon is designed to penetrate armor and hide, or else to deal crushing blows in spite of it. When an Armor Piercing weapon does damage, it ignores a number of points of armor equal to the value of ‘X’. Thus, a weapon with Armor Piercing (2) would ignore 2 points of armor. Any ‘leftover’ Armor Piercing value has no effect - that enemy is about as pierced as they’re going to get.

Defensive: A defensive weapon is designed, weighted, and wielded to protect as much as attack. It gives the wielder +10% on parry checks. This is cumulative: for example, a warrior with a best quality sword in one hand, and a shield in the other, gains +20% to his parry.

Shrapnel (X):A shrapnel weapon looses a volley of broken glass, metal scraps, or lead balls in the direction of its firing. It requires no Ballistic Skill check to fire (though an operator who lacks the appropriate proficiency talent takes twice as long to load it, and causes a shot they have loaded to become Experimental). Instead, measure the weapon’s range in a line one yard wide and consider everyone in that line a valid target. Starting from closest to the weapon, targets take Agility Tests to throw themselves aside from the line of fire. Failure means they are hit, and this process continues until (X) number of targets are hit, or there are no more in line. Roll damage individually for each target struck.

Updated Melee Weapons
Weapons that require two hands marked with *. Unchanged weapons not listed here, and I haven't bothered with the specialist weapons like the White Wolf Hammer and so forth. Those will be a negotiation down the track, if they become relevant. Elements that have been changed are Bolded.

Name	Cost	Enc	Group	Damage	Qualities	Availability
Dagger	1GC	10	Ordinary	SB-3	Compact, Special	Common
Demilance	20GC	75	Cavalry	SB	Fast, Impact, Tiring, Bold	Scarce
Flail*	15GC	95	Flail	SB+1	Impact, Tiring, Bold	Scarce
Gauntlet/ Knuckle-Duster	1GC	1	Ordinary	SB-3	Pummeling, Compact	Common
Great Weapon*	20GC	200	Two-Handed	SB	Impact, Slow	Average
Halberd*	15GC	175	Two-Handed	SB	Special, Bold	Common
Lance	40GC	100	Cavalry	SB+1	Fast, Impact, Tiring, Bold	Rare
Main Gauche	4GC	15	Parrying	SB-3	Balanced, Defensive, Compact	Scarce
Quarterstaff*	3s	50	Ordinary	SB-2	Defensive, Pummeling, Bold	Common

Updated Missile Weapons

Name	Cost	Enc	Group	Damage	Range(Yd)	Reload	Qualities	Avail.
Sling	4GC	10	Sling	3	16/32	Half	Compact	Common
Pistol	200GC	25	Gunpowder	4	8/16	2 Full	Compact, Impact, Unreliable	Very Rare
Hochland Long Rifle*	450GC	70	Engineer	4	48/96	2 Full	Bold, Impact, Unreliable	Very Rare
Blunderbuss*	70GC	50	Gunpowder	3	32/-	3 Full	Shrapnel (4), Unreliable	Very Rare
Duckfoot	500GC	30	Engineer	3	16/-	4 Full	Special, Shrapnel (4) Experimental	Very Rare

Special Weapons:

Dagger: A dagger gains Armor Piercing (2) when the wielder is attacking an opponent that has grappled them, or whom they have grappled.

Halberd: At the beginning of the turn, the wielder of a halberd decides whether to wield the weapon using the profile of a Great Weapon, or a spear. In both cases, it requires both hands to use effectively.

Duckfoot: Instead of measuring in a straight line, the duckfoot targets everyone to its range within a 45 degree arc, striking closer targets first as normal. The agility test to avoid this weapon is Challenging (-10%).


Weapon Quality Changes/Clarifications

Good Quality weapons, in addition to looking nicer and weigh 10% less, are entitled to a special feature. Typically, this is a small bonus (+10%, typically) to a narrow use of the weapon. If you are commissioning the weapon, you can negotiate this with the GM.

Examples:

A sword with a finely filigreed basket hilt, that adds +10% to Charm in formal settings where it is worn.
An axe with a gleaming serrated edge that adds +10% to Intimidate checks when brandished.
A hammer forged in the classic shape of Ghal’Maraz, adding +10% to Command checks with men of the Empire against Orcs, Goblins, and minions of Chaos.
A pick with a hook on the reverse, adding +10% to uses of the Disarm Talent.A good quality weapon adds +2% to WS or BS as appropriate.

Best Quality weapons are like Good Quality weapons, except the bonus to WS or BS is +5%.

Note: In the case of Melee weapons, this bonus applies also to Parry rolls; though only the best Quality bonus applies. For example, a warrior with a Best Quality Sword and Best Quality Shield has a +5% bonus to attack with either of them; but a mighty +25% bonus to parry - 5% from Best Quality and two instances of Defensive at +10% each.

Best Quality Hand Weapons and Great Weapons

Hand Weapons and Great Weapons have special, individual profiles at Best Quality, as tradition dictates.

Name	Cost	Enc	Group	Damage	Qualities	Availability
Axe	60GC	45	Ordinary	SB	Proven (3)	Scarce
Mace/Hammer	70GC	65	Ordinary	SB	Pummelling, Armor Piercing (1)	Scarce
Pick	90GC	60	Ordinary	SB	Armour Piercing (3)	Rare
Sword	140GC	45	Ordinary	SB	Defensive	Very Rare
Greataxe	120GC	180	Two-Handed	SB+1	Impact, Slow, Proven (3).	Rare
Greathammer/Greatmace	150GC	260	Two-Handed	SB+1	Impact, Slow, Armor Piercing (1), Pummelling.	Rare
Greatpick	200GC	180	Two-Handed	SB+1	Impact, Slow, Armour Piercing (3).	Very Rare
Greatsword	350GC	250	Two-Handed	SB+1	Impact, Defensive, Special.	Very Rare

Best Greatsword: This weapon is perfect for denying your enemy’s approach. When used for Zone Control, a Best quality Greatsword inflicts a -15% WS penalty on attackers, instead of the normal +10%.


Fate Point Rework

Note: In this rework, “Temporary Fate Points” and “Fortune Points” are synonyms.

To determine your number of daily fortune points, consult the following table.

Current Permanent Fate Points	Daily Fortune Points
3+	Equal to Permanent FP
2	3
1	4
0	5

The Fate point system is intended to give a player a level of foresight about his or her character’s impending mortality. Once you reach 0 FP, you are expected to be planning for your character to perish. However, Fortune points are a character’s insurance to offset risk. Characters who begin to lose fate points end up acting less, not more heroic, as they approach their destined end. This change is intended to encourage players to ‘ramp up’ toward their end, embracing riskier plans for a higher likelihood of dying in a satisfying way after accomplishing great deeds.


Roleplay XP Rebate

Buying a skill or Weapon Group Talent out of your class advance structure costs 200 XP, and you may not use this to buy +10, +20, or Talents normally. However, after you take a few opportunities in character to formalize that skill by learning it from someone (ideally within the party), you may have 100XP back. Some common sense applies - you can learn how to speak Arabyan, but you can’t learn the forbidden knowledge of Daemonology this way. Just... be sensible.

Example: Bertelis wants to use a Tilean pike he has found, but can't buy Specialist Weapon Group (Two Handed) for a few careers yet. He spends 200XP to buy it (not in the middle of combat like a psychopath) and writes Bertelis as using the pike somewhat basically for a while; but starts looking for opportunities to train with Gimgroth, who has spent enough time around Tileans to know how to handle a pike. After three such scenes across their adventures, Bertelis appeals to the GM and is granted his Roleplay Rebate of 100XP.

[BananaPhone]

What about an opposed Agility test for securing a grapple after a successful attack?

[wilphe]

Presumably at some point you will advance up the wizard track again and at that point, it's just an advance you took early.


He's probably going to dip Killer of the Dead (and not bother with BS because he knows he will probably lose an eye at some point and I can't afford the XP diversion) then go Journeyman into Master Vigilant


Plot may of course intervene, as does your understanding of wizardly hierarchies (do all Master Wizards have to have taken the Master Wizard career)

His shortest route to Guild Master for example would be through Physician...


There are six ongoing themes:

1) He's practically and eclectically trained rather than relying on academic and book knowledge for both Medicine and Magic

2) His lack of formal training contributed to his imposter syndrome about being tested or set up to fail by by giving power he couldn't handle. He's mostly over that.

3) My realisation that the Light College is actually the best gish College and seeing where that takes him. It makes him a good choice for Master Vigilant whilst also making him a source of concern for other wizards who generally don't have to face spellcasters who are also a melee threat

4) His original spell list was custom designed to not have much in the way of combat utility except for the one spell beyond the capacity of almost all magic users and gets you in huge trouble in most use cases. So he's expanded it for stuff that is useful.

5) He wants to take his order out from under the Light College and go independent, preferably with Imperial Immediacy. This will take a lot of money and politics, but being too scary for other wizards to want to stop him will certainly help.
Also this means he and Siobhan are prototypes for careers in an organisation that doesn't exist yet.

6) Whatever Morr has planned, because it is more or less confirmed by Kwolf that the Raven Lord has recruited him to do things his clergy and knights cannot because they are bound by their oaths. Depends how you want to explore this, I was going with the concept of "Elect" because "Chosen" was taken by some other campaign setting entirely and means something different there.

[bramblefoot]

you are all very much welcome! keep the watch-fires burning, ill lurk

[MrAbdiel]

What about an opposed Agility test for securing a grapple after a successful attack?

An opposed check feels natural in most situations where people are opposing each other! But in the core rules (p.131), grappling works like this:

Roll 1: Attacker must hit with an unarmed attack (either standard or charge, not swift).
Roll 2: Since this is an attack, the target is entitled to a dodge/parry defense. If they fail, the attack hits, but deals no damage.
Roll 3: Target makes an Agility test to avoid the grab. If they fail, they are grappled, and the only action they can take is trying to break the grapple with an opposed strength test.

If that Agility test becomes opposed, then a couple of things happen.

1. We introduce the complexity of an opposed roll, which is always a bit of a hassle in PBP.
2. It becomes rapidly more difficult to avoid the grapple of a high agility character. Regine would be able to grab people to her heart's content, and only the most liquid-quick elves could avoid her. This isn't the intention, I think, because being grappled is so hazardous to the grappled target, so debilitating, that the defender deserves at the very least their flat agility test to avoid it.
3. It becomes rapidly easier to avoid the grapple of low agility characters. A giant may try to snatch you up to stuff into its tucker bag, and it's not easy because they have poor WS. But with a poor agility as well, that escape chance becomes much better again, and poor Swagman the Giant will go hungry.
4. It adds another stat of dependency to be a decent grappler. Currently to be a threatening grappler, you need a good WS and a good STR; the first to make the hit, the second to maintain the grapple. Adding AGI dependency in there is going to make it less accessible.

I'm am however trying to make grapples more hazardous by allowing grappling opponents to attack each other with unarmed attacks and compact weapons (and also make carrying a dagger more rewarding) though, since grapples in the core rules are only really useful as a way to tie up an enemy so your friends can stab him in the spine, and there's no exchange of blows inside the grapple - it's just one guy grappled and getting squeezed to death by the other guy. If a ghoul leaps on you and grabs you and tries to eat your face, instead of just rolling a single opposed STR test each turn to escape, you can instead reach for your arming dagger and stab wildly, which seems realistic. Since pistols are also compact, it means grappling a man with a pistol is very dangerous indeed.

[BananaPhone]

Could be opposed Agility or Strength, whichever the player prefers? It represents either a powerful grip or leveragimg your body to its maximum.

Bertelis has ~50% agility, guy is pretty quick and graceful, yet a goblin has a good chance of resisting his attempts at a grapple and wasting his turn.

The Disarm talent (which Im taking for Regine soon) is an opposed agility test after hitting with an attack, becsuse it's a competition between two sides.

[MrAbdiel]

Could be opposed Agility or Strength, whichever the player prefers? It represents either a powerful grip or leveraging your body to its maximum.

Bertelis has ~50% agility, guy is pretty quick and graceful, yet a goblin has a good chance of resisting his attempts at a grapple and wasting his turn.

The Disarm talent (which Im taking for Regine soon) is an opposed agility test after hitting with an attack, becsuse it's a competition between two sides.

The strength comes into it in the maintaining the grapple part; preventing the enemy from escaping. The agi is in avoiding getting a hold altogether; that feels appropriate to me. Strength and Agility are both still in there already; the hold is just established with WS. I don't want to add more AGI functionality in there. And yes! A goblin does have a decent chance of resisting the grapple - A 25% chance! That feels about right. If it becomes opposed, that number becomes very small indeed against Bertelis, and inconceivable against a Regine, or a skaven assassin. Now that I've added the ability to dagger-stab inside grapples, I don't want to make the grab 'n stab a new problem. Remember, a target that isn't holding a weapon can't parry, and one that isn't trained in dodge can't dodge. Grapple is snatchy enough!

As far as Disarm goes, it's another problem. Again there's a couple of things. Mostly it's the nature of opposed tests.

There's two kinds of opposed tests, which is super unhelpfully explained in the rules, but I'll call them All-Or-Nothing tests and Head-to-Head tests. And the rules don't tell you which is which. Example follows. Imagine a Knight with WS 50% and Agi 50%, and a goblin with WS and Agi 25%

Disarm as an All-or-Nothing:

Roll 1: Knight rolls to hit (50% Success).
Roll 2: Goblin rolls to parry (25% success; 37.5% cumulative likelyhood)
Roll 3: Knight rolls AGI in the opposed test. If this fails, the test fails. (50% success; 18.75% cumulative likelihood).
Roll 4: Goblin rolls AGI in the opposed test. It gets a little spongey here because you are comparing degrees of success, but the success chance of the disarm is diminished again because of the small chance the Goblin success with more degrees of success than the knight. That is a sucky small chance of success for such a skill disparity. A knight trying to disarm another knight this way has less than a 7 percent chance of success.

Disarm as Head-to-Head:

Roll 1: Knight rolls to hit (50% Success).
Roll 2: Goblin rolls to parry (25% success; 37.5% cumulative likelyhood)
Roll 3: Knight rolls AGI in the opposed test. (50% success; 18.75% cumulative likelihood).
Roll 4: Goblin rolls AGI in the opposed test. If if succeeds with fewer degrees than the knight, it loses; if it exceeds the knight's success degrees, it wins. But if both failed (a 37.5% chance) they reroll until there is a definitive winner.


It's all very clunky. I think it might be best to just turn Disarm into an opposed Agility test comparing degrees of success AND degrees of failure, so if both fail you just work out who screwed up less.

Notably, disarm differs from grapple because it is made in place of an attack; so if you swift attack and the enemy burns their parry on the first attack, they cannot parry the disarm that follows at all. Grapple does not permit you to swift attack; you either charge or standard attack, so you do it once.

Roll 1: Knight rolls to hit (50% Success).
Roll 2: Goblin rolls to parry (25% success; 37.5% cumulative likelyhood)
Roll 3: Goblin rolls AGI to avoid. (25% success; 28.125% cumulative likeihood).

This can be mitigated by someone else attacking to burn their defence, or by using the first half action to feint (yet ANOTHER opposed WS); but it's fitting that trying to get a grapple on someone is not easilly accomplished.

tldr Disarm might need some work but I don't think giving the grappler a way to overpower the grapplee's only guaranteed defense chance against the grapple will be fair. If you're disarmed, you can atleast run away, pick up the weapon, or draw a new one! If you're grappled, and you're not strong, you're just sort of boned.