Boruto Two Blue Vortex (Unmarked Spoilers for Part 1)

[Rater202]

The Last thread died shortly after the Haitus.

So, to recap for those just joining in, a few months ago Boruto Part 1 ended with Ada, a cyborg with biotechnological modifications derived from the body of Shibai Otsutsuki, accidentally using the shinjutsu "Omnipotence," an all-powerful technique that can create worlds and rewrite reality, to alter the memories of almost everyone on Earth to swap the roles of Kawaki, the orphaned cyborg and former vessel of Ishiki Otsutsuki who Naruto adopted, and Boruto, son of th Seventh Hokage and the Byakugan princess, after Kawaki was being hunted for banishing Naruto and Hinata to a time-locked dimension where they'd be safe from the Otsutsukis and trying to kill his adopted brother in order to eliminate the threat that Momoshiki posed. Ada found him, Kawaki wished that it was an "outsider" who was possessed by Momoshiki and not Boruto, and Ada accidentally granted this wish by swapping Kawaki and Boruto's places.

The only people unaffected were those who were "Otsutsukified" like Boruto and Kawaki, and for unknown reasons Sarada and Sumire.

Everyone is trying to kill or capture Boruto now, as Kawaki has forced Ada to say that she witnessed him killing Naruto, but Sarada is so shaken by her fear for Boruto's safety and understanding of just how screwed he is that her Mangekyo Sharingan, which normally develops from the trauma of witnessing the death of a love one or being responsible for the death of a friend, activated in full which caused Sasuke to realize that something was up and becuase he wasnt in knee-jerk "kill the threat mode" he was able to make observations about Boruto that lead to him realizing that his memories have been tampered with and he goes Rogue to help Boruto escape. They are confronted by Ada who apologizes and promises not to help the Leaf find Boruto, Boruto swears that he'll prove who he really is and reconcile with Kawaki, and Time-Skip.

That was about four Months ago, and the first Post-Chapter Timeskip Chapter come out officially tomorrow so... Yeah.

On the off chance that anyone wants to talk about it here, this is where we can post theories and hold discussions.

Spoiler Policy

Anything from OG Naruto or Boruto Part 1 is free game, since I don't think it's reasonable for someone coming into a part II discussion to not expect spoilers for the first half or a sequel not expecting spoilers for the original, but anything from a chapter—or episode, when the anime adaption comes out—should be in spoiler tags for at least 7 days after the chapter comes out.

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To get this started off, a theory I saw the other day...

Boruto has a number of parallels to both Sasuke, and his father especially as he starts to mature...

But his current situation marks him out as being a parallel to a third character entirely.

His current situation, of course, is that he's the genius prodigy older brother, who is three to four years older than his beloved younger sibling, who is now on the run for killing almost his entire family despite being more or less innocent in the matter and who is presumably going to continuing acting in the interests of his home village.

...Boruto isn't the Naruto or the Sasuke of his Generation.

He's the Itachi.

Bonus points, one of his last major interactions with his beloved younger sister before the 'deaths' of their parents was her asking him for help with something and him saying he was too busy, just like Sasuke and Tachi before the Massacre...

..And Himawari is the cheerful younger sibling with a great deal of talent but who mostly just adores her older brother... Until he killed their entire family.

Odds are good that she's the Sasuke analog in all of this.

And for the hat trick: people have also drawn parallels between Kawaki and Kabuto, relating to matters of identity, a tendency to latch onto people, and having rather extreme reactions and... Kabuto was defeated for good by... Sasuke and Itachi.

[Ramza00]

So why didn’t anyone tell me Bleach the anime is back?

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Obviously I want to talk about Boruto, I just have nothing to say until the new post time skip arc is out.

I am not sure if I like the art that was released this week?

[Rater202]

So, something I literally just learned.

Spoiler

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This is a piece of Art that was drawn by Masasi Kishimoto that accompanied the Japanese release of Voruto Volume 1, the collected edition that contained the first three chapters of the Manga as well as the "Gaiden" chapter elaborating on Mitsuki's backstory.

This collected vlume was published back in 2016, that is to say, roughly seven years ago.

Look closely at Sarada. Her eyes, specifically.

Spoiler

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Thesame Mangekyo design that she unlocked in the final chapter of Boruto Part 1.

So... Sarada's Mangekyo was designed seven years in advance, at least...

What else was planned out that far ahead?

[LaZodiac]

So why didn’t anyone tell me Bleach the anime is back?

=====

Obviously I want to talk about Boruto, I just have nothing to say until the new post time skip arc is out.

I am not sure if I like the art that was released this week?

Boruto as a series has always had some pretty poopy art. It's got good moments, but the artist just isn't quite there with it.

These new designs are perhaps some of the worst I've seen. Especially Sarada's, they massacred my poor girl over the course of this series both writing wise and now design wise, and it's depressing as hell.

So, something I literally just learned.

Spoiler

Show

This is a piece of Art that was drawn by Masasi Kishimoto that accompanied the Japanese release of Voruto Volume 1, the collected edition that contained the first three chapters of the Manga as well as the "Gaiden" chapter elaborating on Mitsuki's backstory.

This collected vlume was published back in 2016, that is to say, roughly seven years ago.

Look closely at Sarada. Her eyes, specifically.

Spoiler

Show

Thesame Mangekyo design that she unlocked in the final chapter of Boruto Part 1.

So... Sarada's Mangekyo was designed seven years in advance, at least...

What else was planned out that far ahead?

I mean, an Uchiha having a sharingan design isn't a sign that all of this has been planned- the switch over from Kishimoto simply observing and providing input to "Kishimoto is now writing fully again" accompanied some pretty severe shifts in the writing. Decoupling from whatever the original writer had intended to go to what Kishimoto wanted to go for was not a smooth and easy transition, as Baryon Mode going from "oh this is going to kill us" to "actually lol it'll just kill me", to the rather absurd means that led us to Kawaki and Boruto coming to loggerheads kinda shows... as does the (hilarious!) fumbling of the bag that is Code trying and failing to be taken as a legitimate threat in any capacity.

Some of the funniest (though certainly not intentionally so) moments in Boruto as a series has been how the events of the story seemed to push us further and further away from the opening's flash-forward ever being a reasonable place to end up at. Kawaki has become a pretty nice and honourable boy, every antagonist has been beaten either due to superior firepower, sheer incompetence on the part of the baddy, or in one particularly noteworthy case by genuinely sensible human logic that in any other fiction story wouldn't work. It's astounding to see every means by which the series could offroad into the flash-forward was followed up immediately by someone gently course correcting the wheel and going "naw we're good actually". It's not since Jojolion that I've seen such wicked devotion into presenting a teaser to the future and then completely passing by it without thought or reason.

All that which is to say, the internal inconsistency of "Okay since I've revived you, it's actuatlly impossible for me to take over and unzip my data over yours" being replaced by "oh lol nevermind I can still control you I just can't make myself look like how I'm supposed to look, I'm stuck with your ****ty anime protagonist body" is a pretty bad set up for what's going on here. Kawaki's motivation of "hey I wanna protect Naruto so bad I'll ****ing kill you on a 1% chance you might kill him" is inherently flawed but makes sense in character, and is honestly kind of interesting as motives go- but the way he's going about it is a bit shaky, writing wise.

Aida's "everyone who isn't blood related or a space rabbit is instantly in love with me no matter how creepy it'd be" powers actually being GODLY REALITY REWRITING SUPER POWERS that allow her to, by mistake, rewrite everyone's brains so that Bort and Kawaki have always been in each other's positions, is the most blatant example of railroading a plot line I've EVER seen. It comes out of nowhere, it's entirely too powerful in any real capacity to be interesting, it is ludicrous beyond all measure, entirely arbitrary in execution... and just, just plain stupid. I'm impressed by how head ass this plot development is. I appreciate Sasuke recognizing Something Is Up, but the series does make clear that he's going to eventually dismiss that Something as the omnipotent memory altering global range super power does its thing, but man. MAN.

This series used to be about how the rise of modern technology raises the questions of "what does it MEAN to be a ninja nowadays?".

[Ramza00]

Here is the link for it is out now

https://www.viz.com/shonenjump/chapt...wo-blue-vortex

And it is called Boruto: Two Blue Vortex, and it is a new manga instead of being chapter 81 of Boruto: Naruto Next Generations.

[Rater202]

Zodi, while Kishimoto's role for most of the Manga was supervisory and he wanted the previous author to develop his own take on the characters he did have a rather significant degree of creative control.

Additionally, he apparently had a supervisory role in the anime, which is why the Boruto filler is all "broad strokes canon" stuff that expands on characters instead of stuff like, say, the OG Naruto Filler or most of the Shippuden filler that never happened and actively contradicts the manga...

Also, he took over before Ada was introduced and before Boruto and Kawaki's murder-suicide pact and Momoshikis "okay, if you die I die so whatever, I want to live long enough to see that mind breaking misfortune I predicted for you come to pass" thing happened so neither of those being as initially presented I don't think counts as change from the previous authors plans.

...and Omnipotence was forshadowed. Momoshiki was like "no, I'm a scholar of all shinjutsu lore and that charm doesn't cond like any that I've heard of and... Oh, oh." "What?" "Ohnononono it's nothing."

And like.. While we can't say that the orignal Naruto's plot was planned out like it was from the beginning—in fact we know that there was some editorial interference during the Sasuke retrieval arc—there's two indications that something big was planned from the beginning...

During Neji and Hinata's fight in the Chunin exams, it's stated that it is believed that the Byakugan and Sharigan have a common origin or that the Sharigan is a mutated form of the Byakugan.

And in the Sasuke retrieval arc, the Kaguya Clan. You member, Kimmimaro, the guy with freaky bone powers? And also pale skin, white hair, and whose family traditionally part their hair and style their eyebrows similarly to Kaguya, whose family shares her name?

Up until Kaguya's revival, the focus was on the Uchiha and the Senju/Uzumaki. About how they, and they alone, were needed to recreate the power of the Sage of Six Paths... And then When Kaguya appears she has, not only the strongest form of the Sharingan and an analog to wood release, but also the Byakugan and a suped-up Dead Bone Pulse.

There was no narrative reason to connect Kaguya to the Hyuga or the Kaguya clans and especially no reason to make her, visually, a call back to Kimimaro. So while the ultimate details of the plot were in flux, we can conclude that the idea of Kaguya Otsutsuki was planned from at least the Sasuke Retrieval Mission, if not as far back as the Chunin exams.

As for Boruto... I mean... I can think of a consistent, logical reason for Boruto to get that powered-up form he's got in that bit of artwork using only what we know from Boruto Part 1.

Spoiler: Boruto Part II Chapter 1

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So, Sarada has spent the last three years trying to convince people that Boruto is innocent to no avail and, over time, the inconsistencies in people's memories has been smoothed away. Shikamaru, who is now the eighth Hokage, is telling her that this is the final straw and at this rate not only will she never be Hokage but she'll never be promoted past genin... And she responds by saying that neither was Naruto. She cites how Naruto brought a traitor, her father, back into the fold and that he is her Role Model, not Shikamaru.

Confirmation that Sumire is immune to Omnipotence, apparently it was only implied...

Ada and Daemon have not aged or matured at all in the last three years. Daemon is getting suspicious of them not being under Ada's charm... Ada is trying to figure out and control Omnipotence but doesn't think revering the memory swap will solve things at this point.

Mitsuki seems to be realizing that something is up, however, and while Himwarmi was affected by Omnipotence she doesn't believe the official story of Boruto turning traitor and killing Naruto and is trying to get strong so she can help him so the theory of Himarari being the Ssuke to Borth's Itachi is a non-starter.

Code finally attacks the village after years of build-up becuase he knows that Boruto still cares about his friends. This work like a charm because Bort just straight up falls out of the sky and stomps on his face. Shikamaru gives the order to prioritize Code's forces over apprehending Boruto and to keep an eye on his actions.

...Like, Boruto literally just moments after Code portals in drops on him which sort of implies that Bort was just hanging around in the general area of the village... Or he's mastered Momoshiki's power well enough to use Momoshiki's Byakugan and it's ability to see the future.

[LaZodiac]

Zodi, while Kishimoto's role for most of the Manga was supervisory and he wanted the previous author to develop his own take on the characters he did have a rather significant degree of creative control.

Additionally, he apparently had a supervisory role in the anime, which is why the Boruto filler is all "broad strokes canon" stuff that expands on characters instead of stuff like, say, the OG Naruto Filler or most of the Shippuden filler that never happened and actively contradicts the manga...

Also, he took over before Ada was introduced and before Boruto and Kawaki's murder-suicide pact and Momoshikis "okay, if you die I die so whatever, I want to live long enough to see that mind breaking misfortune I predicted for you come to pass" thing happened so neither of those being as initially presented I don't think counts as change from the previous authors plans.

...and Omnipotence was forshadowed. Momoshiki was like "no, I'm a scholar of all shinjutsu lore and that charm doesn't cond like any that I've heard of and... Oh, oh." "What?" "Ohnononono it's nothing."

And like.. While we can't say that the orignal Naruto's plot was planned out like it was from the beginning—in fact we know that there was some editorial interference during the Sasuke retrieval arc—there's two indications that something big was planned from the beginning...

During Neji and Hinata's fight in the Chunin exams, it's stated that it is believed that the Byakugan and Sharigan have a common origin or that the Sharigan is a mutated form of the Byakugan.

And in the Sasuke retrieval arc, the Kaguya Clan. You member, Kimmimaro, the guy with freaky bone powers? And also pale skin, white hair, and whose family traditionally part their hair and style their eyebrows similarly to Kaguya, whose family shares her name?

Up until Kaguya's revival, the focus was on the Uchiha and the Senju/Uzumaki. About how they, and they alone, were needed to recreate the power of the Sage of Six Paths... And then When Kaguya appears she has, not only the strongest form of the Sharingan and an analog to wood release, but also the Byakugan and a suped-up Dead Bone Pulse.

There was no narrative reason to connect Kaguya to the Hyuga or the Kaguya clans and especially no reason to make her, visually, a call back to Kimimaro. So while the ultimate details of the plot were in flux, we can conclude that the idea of Kaguya Otsutsuki was planned from at least the Sasuke Retrieval Mission, if not as far back as the Chunin exams.

As for Boruto... I mean... I can think of a consistent, logical reason for Boruto to get that powered-up form he's got in that bit of artwork using only what we know from Boruto Part 1.

I know he was supervising as an adviser but I don't believe his input was as significant as you call it, given the extreme shift that happened right when he took over as main writer.

I know he took over during the fight where Naruto achieved nuclear fission, and I'm saying all that stuff and how it kinda contradicts each other are hallmarks of his writing.

I'll concede that yeah, there's foreshadowing about Omnipotence... in so far as "there is Clearly Something Up". The idea that it's full reality rewriting turbo god powers is still pretty damn bad. There's no real indication that her powers will be anything along those lines- my personal thought on the matter was that the romance factor was (aside from just a creepy aspect of the writing) meant to evoke the sort of awe these alien moon rabbit peoples used to dominate the world so they CAN do their ridiculous planet harvesting. It's just coming out as love because she wants to be loved- this makes more sense to me, and has more foreshadowing, then "she has super reality rewriting powers".

I don't believe for a second Kimimaro is intended as foreshadowing for Kaguya. That's absolutely a backfill of "oh I decided later Kimimaro would serve as a basis for what Kaguya looked like when I came up with her". The weirdness about the Byakugan and Sharingan being connected is something I could believe being foreshadowed, and the Sage of Six Paths is decently set up at least once the Pain arc begins, but that has always felt more "I'm establishing there Is A Mystery here, and I'll solve it later".

I... don't recall Kaguya having any sort of bone powers the way Kimimaro had. Again, all of this feels like backfilling, taking those hanging threads and making something out of it from later. If Kaguya was planned as early as the chunin arc then why did we not receive ANY sort of indication that this would happen, after the absolute cluster **** of "Akatsuki which is being manipulated by Obito which is being manipulated by Madara which is being manipulated by Zetsu which is being a servant of Kaguya". The chain is too messy and conflicting to really work assuming everything was foreshadowed from THAT early on, imho.

The thing about foreshadowing is that there are two ways of doing it. One is actually putting in the work to make sure basically every little detail connects in a believable way (One Piece is great at this, the reveal of Joyboy was genuinely sprinkled throughout the entire series). The other way to go about it is the term I've been using a lot above, backfilling.

The long and short of what that means is, many writers will include mystery elements that make the reader ask "what does that mean?" and start thinking about it. Often times, the writer does not know what that'll be- no one except the absolute insane will have every plot beat planned out mark for mark. Not even Oda does that. Hell not even I do that, despite the reams of notes I've got detailing the structure of my future writing. You sometimes need to put an idea down, not knowing what it'll be, and later try and tie it together right when you've finally figured out what it is.

I think Kishimoto is, honestly, pretty good at backfilling. He knows how to tie off mysteries in a decent way. I wouldn't say his end results are GOOD, but they're skillfully executed. I just don't buy them. Kimimaro is, unless I'm mistaken (and I doubt I am he was one of my favorite characters of early Naruto and why I even began reading it!) a character that has never gone by his last name. It's never brought up in the entire manga. He's just a guy with a special blood line jutsu, like Haku was for Zabuza, and like how the other Sound Four did. It was meant to show the broad depths of the ninja world, showing just what Orochi was fighting to achieve- the ability to gain all of this stuff.

The Sharingan and Byakugan are similar. Powerful, important things that have clear connections (they're both eye powers involved with Seeing Good). The Byakugan in early Naruto is characterized as being the stronger, superior thing... until suddenly it isn't, due to the increase of importance of Sasuke and Itachi. Suddenly it's the Sharingan that takes precedent. And this is fair, we can assume there's some history there that explains, that's acceptable. Kishimoto then connects it with the Senju by having his special mixed blood give him wood release (connecting back to Kimi and the others with unique blood-line techs) and having him be a counter to Madara and his special eyes. It serves well to tie these things together in some capacity.

But there really, truly, is no believable connection to them that says "oho these two are EXTRA special" until we get **** like "the special rock that only sharingan can read" and the stuff with Pain. Otherwise it'd have stronger connections than just "these are a variety of blood-line techniques, tying into the overarching themes of how unique everyone is in this setting and what that means". When Kishimoto starts planning the Sage of Six Paths and his stuff, it leads to him trying to find connections to make his sudden reveal feel stronger- so of course he'd go back and connect it to some of these. Likewise for Kaguya.

I'm rambling a bit since I am a bit tired due to fire evacuation and what have you, but I think what I'm writing mostly makes sense. I don't buy that he was foreshadowing that stuff early, but he did the work to make it retroactive (if shaky) foreshadowing.

ANYWAY new chapter: it ****ing sucked but Boruto showing up to completely clown on Code is one consistently funny thing I'll never get over. That was a bit reductive but I'll give a more indepth writing of it later, I'm Tired after everything I just wrote above.

[Rater202]

On Kaguya and bone Powers, she has All-Killing Ash Bones

Spoiler

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Also... Kaguya looks like Kimimaro

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The shape of the face, the distinctive zig-zag pattern on the parting of the hair, even the shape of the eyes is similar.

The shaved eyebrows aren't an exact 1-1 but other members of Kimimaro's clan do have a closer match.

Spoiler

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There was no narrative reason for Kaguya Otsutsuki to be a call-back to Kimimaro and I don't think this the sort of thing that would randomly occur to Kishimoto as he was doing it.

[Ramza00]

So I am not touching the backfill vs (planned) foreshadowing…for a successful backfill has no apparent difference to the reader than a planned foreshadowing. It is Hyper-Reality, it is Prometheus (name means fore-thought) and Epimetheus his identical twin Titan brother (name means after-thought),

these Titan gods and their creation (one myth has them create mankind in its current form together, there were previous mankind’s but due to Greek Ragnarok events mankind was stated over) well you can not tell which of the two Titan bros did what, that is the nature of creation.

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The problem with Boruto is it has existed in some form since 2014. Naruto the Last came out in 2014. Boruto the Movie in 2015. The Manga started in 2016. That is 9 years!

If you started seeing the anime movie in 2014 at the age of 9, started reading the manga at 11, you are now 18. Nothing happened in 9 years. My Hero Academia has started, done spin offs, and is close to finishing in that same time period.

Naruto in that same time period did about 400 chapters with volume 43 dropping roughly this period. For people who not recalled (google is telling me) this is right when Jiraiya dies to Pain, Sasuke vs Itachi, Sasuke wins and Obito ruins Sasuke life by telling Sasuke the truth thus destroying the intended meaning of Itachi’s sacrifice.

There is some good bones with Boruto during that period (so much I am disagreeing with, but I am skipping that.) But 9 years…gosh.

I earnestly think one can sacrifice those 80 chapters of Manga, put them in a shredder and in 128 pages, maybe 160 one can do a graphic novel that covers those 80 chapters in a quick enough flashback and no one is required to read them.

[Rater202]

I think that if you think that nothing has happened in Boruto in 80 chapters that you're not being fair.

[Ramza00]

I am not sure if I like any of the character designs.

Spoiler: Outfits

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Boruto outfit is not actionable long term, it will be like the Akatsuki, those robes are coming off.

Sarada’s I was opened to earlier in the week. I figured I was going to hate it or I was going to see a false face Sarada for she was going undercover and developing a second self persona was a way to cope in a false world, and the outfit was going to reflect this false face she was going to present. So in sum hate it or I am going to give the outfit time. Well it appears Sarada is not doing that … so at this moment I hate it.

I can not recall any other outfits at this moment, will reread later, figure I would give an honest opinion here. First impressions but also several hours divorced from reading it.

[Rater202]

On outfits, recall the thread's spoiler policy.

Spoiler

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With the exception of Code, all the kids/teenagers are wearing the sorts of things you'd see people just walking down the streets in the "fashion districts" of Tokyo wearing. Urban Japan, especially the youth, are just really extra about fashion. You go to Tokyo as an American you'd best be packing your best clothes because otherwise you're gonna feel underdressed.

So having them dress like that emphasizes the theme of the series that times are changing and the ninja world is modernizing.

The exception is Code, whose outfit is very much rather outdated... Especially the Dracula cloak. But given that Code is latching onto the legacy of a man from a thousand years ago who refused to die, you could see that as symbolic of him holding on to the past.

I don't tihnk, in a vacuum, that any of the outfits are horrible, if I'm being honest I like Sarada's outfit... except the boots. Salad-chan you are a ninja you don't need to be wearing heels.

I do dislike Chocho's overall design... Belly shirts are not for people with bellies. Also, she's got the inversion of her father's thing going on. Chouji was fat in Naruto Part 1 but in Naruto part 2 he slimmed down a bit and put on muscle so he became more generally heavy-set rather than actually obese. Chocho... started heavyset, then got fat.

[LaZodiac]

On Kaguya and bone Powers, she has All-Killing Ash Bones

Spoiler

Show

Also... Kaguya looks like Kimimaro

Spoiler

Show

The shape of the face, the distinctive zig-zag pattern on the parting of the hair, even the shape of the eyes is similar.

The shaved eyebrows aren't an exact 1-1 but other members of Kimimaro's clan do have a closer match.

Spoiler

Show

There was no narrative reason for Kaguya Otsutsuki to be a call-back to Kimimaro and I don't think this the sort of thing that would randomly occur to Kishimoto as he was doing it.

Ah, forgot about that. I only read the manga and that was years ago so I forgot the occasional moment of bone stabbin'.

You're correct, there was no narrative reason to call-back to Kimimaro, except to potentially establish some retroactive continuity. Like Ramza says, ultimately whether it was pre or post thought canon-welding, I just don't think it is very good writing, and I dislike the place Boruto has ended up.

On outfits, recall the thread's spoiler policy.

Spoiler

Show

With the exception of Code, all the kids/teenagers are wearing the sorts of things you'd see people just walking down the streets in the "fashion districts" of Tokyo wearing. Urban Japan, especially the youth, are just really extra about fashion. You go to Tokyo as an American you'd best be packing your best clothes because otherwise you're gonna feel underdressed.

So having them dress like that emphasizes the theme of the series that times are changing and the ninja world is modernizing.

The exception is Code, whose outfit is very much rather outdated... Especially the Dracula cloak. But given that Code is latching onto the legacy of a man from a thousand years ago who refused to die, you could see that as symbolic of him holding on to the past.

I don't tihnk, in a vacuum, that any of the outfits are horrible, if I'm being honest I like Sarada's outfit... except the boots. Salad-chan you are a ninja you don't need to be wearing heels.

I do dislike Chocho's overall design... Belly shirts are not for people with bellies. Also, she's got the inversion of her father's thing going on. Chouji was fat in Naruto Part 1 but in Naruto part 2 he slimmed down a bit and put on muscle so he became more generally heavy-set rather than actually obese. Chocho... started heavyset, then got fat.

Spoiler

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While that's true, I despise Sarada's outfit because it doesn't fit her as a person at all. When I first saw a teaser of it I thought it was theoretical future Sarada fan art, because she looked so doe-eyed and "sexy" despite being god damn 16 years old. She's a ninja wearing baggy leg warmers and high-heel sandals and a ridiculous ****ing tube top and it's just, so so very out of character and tasteless. Boruto's outfit is nonsensical, kind of whatever, but like Ramza says absolutely not going to last past the next couple chapters.

Code's outfit is perfect in the sense that he's an absolute loser teenager edge OC given flesh.

Chocho's outfit is the only one that fits her character. Her character is ****, but a fashion obsessed scene-girl like her would absolutely dress like that. Belly shirts are absolutely for people with bellies too, don't be afraid of fat people showing off. Also she doesn't look changed at all weight wise since the time skip... and also her entire fighting style is around size changing so ultimately it's fine.

[Rater202]

Spoiler

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Sarada's outfit looks somewhat 'goth,' especially in the contrast to Sumire's "civilian chic" outfit.

Given that Sarada was already rather snarky and that she's spent the last three years trying and failing to clear the good names of her best friend and her father... Yeah, kind of makes sense that she might be in darker, more brooding moods and dress to accompany it.

[Ramza00]

Spoiler

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Sarada's outfit looks somewhat 'goth,' especially in the contrast to Sumire's "civilian chic" outfit.

Given that Sarada was already rather snarky and that she's spent the last three years trying and failing to clear the good names of her best friend and her father... Yeah, kind of makes sense that she might be in darker, more brooding moods and dress to accompany it.

Sarada

Spoiler: More Outfits Talk

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If Goth was what Sarada was going for I did not think she was successful at communicating her intention to others.

I am fine with Sarada going Goth in fact I would celebrate Sarada being a dark Morbid theater kid after she feels the world has betrayed her. Just to me the outfit does not feel Goth *laughs*

Sarada needs pants or some form of stockings. I would not be against some Grace Jones / 80s inspired X-Men rogue looks and one can fuse that with the 2000s X-Men movies / Evolution Rogue which was more a Goth after her powers activated.

[LaZodiac]

Spoiler

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Sarada's outfit looks somewhat 'goth,' especially in the contrast to Sumire's "civilian chic" outfit.

Given that Sarada was already rather snarky and that she's spent the last three years trying and failing to clear the good names of her best friend and her father... Yeah, kind of makes sense that she might be in darker, more brooding moods and dress to accompany it.

Spoiler

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With respect, wearing black clothing is not goth.

[Rater202]

Spoiler

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With respect, wearing black clothing is not goth.

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It's not just that the clothes are black. It's the specific outfit, particularly the chocker, ear piercings, and giant ass belt, also the fact that the jacket hangs off her shoulder...

Combine that with her sarcastic attitude in general and the fact that she's very much a rebel right now, actively going against the established narrative... also her general body language throughout the chapter.

I bet you any amount of imaginary money that if I started googling Goth-Punk bands or something I'd find a similar outfit eventually.

[Rodin]

I think that if you think that nothing has happened in Boruto in 80 chapters that you're not being fair.

This discussion made me curious, so I went to see how far I made it into the Boruto anime before I tapped out. That turned out to be 138 episodes, right at the conclusion of the time travel arc. Which...honestly, wasn't all that bad. But it was still 138 episodes with no sign of speeding up, and that's only if you ignore the 720 episodes of Naruto it took to get to the start line of Boruto.

Looking at the episode list for Boruto, I see 293 episodes. That's 70 episodes longer than Naruto Part 1, and that's including the infamous 100 episodes of filler. Comparing to My Hero Academia, that show has had 6 seasons and is currently sitting at...138 episodes.

I swear to God I did not pull that number from MHA and use it for how much Boruto I watched. It just happens to be a crazy cool coincidence.

But it does highlight the disconnect between the Boruto anime and how other Shonen Jump manga are being adapted (with the obvious exception of One Piece). 293 episodes is an absurd number of episodes to cover 80 chapters of manga, and that's entirely down to them doing the old fashioned way of grinding out episodes on the weekly for 5 freaking years. After a bit of Googling, it appears that those 138 episodes don't even cover the first 15 chapters of the manga, with the Vessel arc beginning over 40 episodes later!

My Hero Academia's anime started two years before Boruto's anime, yet sits at less than half the episodes. And the difference is that it's almost all good stuff. There's a few blatant recap episodes and a handful of filler episodes, but the bulk of it is meat and potatoes main story.

The more remarkable anime for comparison purposes is the Bleach revival. After what I had read about the Thousand Year Blood War in the manga, it didn't sound all that remarkable. Another villain with another army, ho-hum. The manga's popularity sinking enough Tite Kubo had to hurriedly finish it didn't help. I started watching the anime to give it my usual "couple of episodes" treatment. The production values immediately blew me away, and the speed at which the plot moved was also staggering. As a long-time watcher of the anime it was clear what had been taken out - all the fillery repeated fight sequences and unfunny comedy bits had been excised to make a lean, fast-paced story that doesn't stop to smell the roses. I'm absolutely loving it, and they're going to blow through 4 years worth of manga (around 200 chapters I think) in a slim 57 episodes.

It just works, and it shows what you can do if you just wait for the damn manga to finish. Or at least pace out your seasons (like MHA does) so you're not frantically writing hundreds of episodes of filler waiting for the author to give you new content.

I realize this isn't relevant to the manga, but it is pretty damn frustrating to me as an anime viewer. I really like Naruto and Boruto when it gets its crap together, but there's just SO much random stuff thrown in.

[Rater202]

Okay, you are very much looking at it the wrong way.

the Boruto anime knew going in that they wouldn't be able to adapt it without filler due to Boruto being a monthly published Manga, unlike NAruto which was published weekly.

So they add a whole bunch of arcs that, under supervision of Kishimoto, the IP owner, expand on characters and storylines that otherwise wouldn't be able to be gone into depth on in a monthly published Manga.

the Bortuo Anime, while adapting arcs from Boruto and other Naruto spinoffs, is mostly supplemental to the manga.

Looking at it as a straight adaption and basing your interpretation of Boruto's pacing on the anime is no, that's wrong.

The Boruto anime is very much doing things differently compared to other Manga-adapted Anime.

Now, stuff from the anime does get referenced in the Manga, like the entire character of Sumire, so you can't ignore the anime completely, but...

The actual Boruto Manga is in fact pretty quickly paced. Quiet a lot of important information was dropped n just one chapter today.

[Rodin]

Okay, you are very much looking at it the wrong way.

the Boruto anime knew going in that they wouldn't be able to adapt it without filler due to Boruto being a monthly published Manga, unlike NAruto which was published weekly.

So they add a whole bunch of arcs that, under supervision of Kishimoto, the IP owner, expand on characters and storylines that otherwise wouldn't be able to be gone into depth on in a monthly published Manga.

the Bortuo Anime, while adapting arcs from Boruto and other Naruto spinoffs, is mostly supplemental to the manga.

Looking at it as a straight adaption and basing your interpretation of Boruto's pacing on the anime is no, that's wrong.

The Boruto anime is very much doing things differently compared to other Manga-adapted Anime.

Now, stuff from the anime does get referenced in the Manga, like the entire character of Sumire, so you can't ignore the anime completely, but...

The actual Boruto Manga is in fact pretty quickly paced. Quiet a lot of important information was dropped n just one chapter today.

That's why I said I'm not talking about the manga. I'm talking about the anime.

The stuff in the Boruto anime ranges from great (mostly the stuff from the manga) to okay-ish (well thought out expansions to the story like Sumire) to stinkingly bad. A lot of it IS outright filler, no matter what they want to call it. The quality is so variable it's difficult to stay motivated to watch it, because you have no idea which show you're going to be watching that week.

If they're going to do that, I'd far rather they not bother. Even if you're going in more depth with supplemental stuff, I'd prefer it to be like MHA that expands out a bit on things not shown in canon (like how Todoroki and Momo passed the first stage of the Hero Licensing exam) rather than hundreds of episodes of dubious quality. Even if you're going to do supplemental content, do it the way the other anime are doing it - write out a season, nail everything down, make it, and then take 6-9 months preparing for the next season. The quality level shows.

I can't be dealing with a story that ping-pongs from the superbly animated Momoshiki fight to a month of utterly dire Cho-Cho and Metal Lee episodes.

[Rater202]

{Scrubbed}

Anyway, back to the chapter.

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If you look at Code... one of his eyes has been slashed out.

...And there's no sign of Sasuke, Boruto is very clearly wilding Sasuke's sword, and Code's talk about spending two years trying to find Boruto right after we're told that it's been three years since the start of the time skip uh...

Sasuke is probably dead. He and Bort spent a year avoiding Code, code caught up to them, and Sasuke probably died making sure Boruto could get away. He probably took out Code's eye and I bet you dollars to donuts that Code's gonna open his scared eye to show Sasuke's eye under it in the next chapter or two.

[Ramza00]

Agreed with Rodin, Boruto would be better if it was organized in a different fashion. The bones are good enough, but how it unfolded so slowly and yet simultaneously so much content...it feels like a time manipulation genjutsu.

[Rodin]

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

Anyway, back to the chapter.

Spoiler

Show

If you look at Code... one of his eyes has been slashed out.

...And there's no sign of Sasuke, Boruto is very clearly wilding Sasuke's sword, and Code's talk about spending two years trying to find Boruto right after we're told that it's been three years since the start of the time skip uh...

Sasuke is probably dead. He and Bort spent a year avoiding Code, code caught up to them, and Sasuke probably died making sure Boruto could get away. He probably took out Code's eye and I bet you dollars to donuts that Code's gonna open his scared eye to show Sasuke's eye under it in the next chapter or two.

My apologies for discussing Boruto in a Boruto thread, just not the particular variety of Boruto you wanted to discuss. Given that there IS no Boruto anime thread (or any anime thread these days) it seemed like a good place to discuss it.

Apparently not.

I have nothing further to add, so I'll leave you to it.

[Rater202]

I apologize if that seemed hostile.

[LaZodiac]

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

Anyway, back to the chapter.

Spoiler

Show

If you look at Code... one of his eyes has been slashed out.

...And there's no sign of Sasuke, Boruto is very clearly wilding Sasuke's sword, and Code's talk about spending two years trying to find Boruto right after we're told that it's been three years since the start of the time skip uh...

Sasuke is probably dead. He and Bort spent a year avoiding Code, code caught up to them, and Sasuke probably died making sure Boruto could get away. He probably took out Code's eye and I bet you dollars to donuts that Code's gonna open his scared eye to show Sasuke's eye under it in the next chapter or two.

Spoiler

Show

There is no world where Sasuke died off screen.

Agreed with Rodin, Boruto would be better if it was organized in a different fashion. The bones are good enough, but how it unfolded so slowly and yet simultaneously so much content...it feels like a time manipulation genjutsu.

I'll be honest, I completely zoned out the instant "time travel arc" was brought up. Absurd. Rater's point about it being "supplemental" for the manga is fair to a point, but also literally nothing in the anime has any effect on the manga so... I'm unsure how accurate that is.

The point about how slow and plodding and mixed in quality the Boruto anime is is fun, because we also get things like the manga adaptations of some of its storylines, like Mirai's very cool and good comedy adventure, or Sasuke fighting some dinosaurs and having some legitimate romantic moments with Sakura in the first time in series history.

My apologies for discussing Boruto in a Boruto thread, just not the particular variety of Boruto you wanted to discuss. Given that there IS no Boruto anime thread (or any anime thread these days) it seemed like a good place to discuss it.

Apparently not.

I have nothing further to add, so I'll leave you to it.

Naw it's fine to discuss the anime here. All (should) be welcome here.

[Rater202]

Yeah, that was unnecessarily hostile of me. Again, apologies.

{Scrubbed}

@zodi

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You can say that there's no way Sasuke would hve been taken out off screen... But I'm sure a lot of people would have said the same about Naruto and Hinata being defeated in a one-hit sucker punch.

[LaZodiac]

Yeah, that was unnecessarily hostile of me. Again, apologies.

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

@zodi

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You can say that there's no way Sasuke would hve been taken out off screen... But I'm sure a lot of people would have said the same about Naruto and Hinata being defeated in a one-hit sucker punch.

Spoiler

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I mean Naruto getting taken out in a single blow was pretty well foreshadowed. He'd lost the fox in an event that should have, by rights, killed him. He was weakened, he's old, and (if one is to consider the spin offs/anime canon, recovering from a nasty fatal illness he barely staved off thanks to Sasuke). The dude's been shown to be running on empty for awhile- AND Kawaki's got ridiculous nonsense teleporting ninja weapon body powers that are consistently shown to be able to take one by surprise.

I mean Hinata getting taken out in a single blow was pretty well foreshadowed. She's a woman in Naruto.

[Rater202]

So, just a general thing of discussion not related to the chapter... I saw a theory a little while ago speculating on what kind of "sage" Hashirama is.

Like, how Naruto was a Toad Sage and Katuo was a Snake Sage...

The speculation was that he was a "sun sage."

This was based partly on the idea that his cells are apparently capable of photosynthesis... But also based on his facial markings.

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the symbol on his forehead is very similar to the Chinese oracle bone script character used to represent the sun, and Chinese oracle bone script is the earliest form of the writing system that became modern Chinese and Japanese writing.

I'd post a picture of he character but I' having a hell of a time finding a picture of just the character.

Then there are his eye markings, which... Looks kind of similar to the Egyptian Eye of Ra

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especially when you combine it with the Ridge of his brow.

Being a representative of a Sun God... I mean, Kishimoto has drawn heavily from mythology and religion. This would be the only time he's gone further west than India but it's not too much of a stretch.

I'm not sure If I believe that theory, mind you, but... "Sun Sage" sounds cooler than "wood sage."

[Ramza00]

Spoiler

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There is no world where Sasuke died off screen.

I'll be honest, I completely zoned out the instant "time travel arc" was brought up. Absurd. Rater's point about it being "supplemental" for the manga is fair to a point, but also literally nothing in the anime has any effect on the manga so... I'm unsure how accurate that is.

The point about how slow and plodding and mixed in quality the Boruto anime is is fun, because we also get things like the manga adaptations of some of its storylines, like Mirai's very cool and good comedy adventure, or Sasuke fighting some dinosaurs and having some legitimate romantic moments with Sakura in the first time in series history.

Works better with the X-Men in the 1980s, which was part of a larger franchise of many franchises, and by 1990 it was already over / not fun when people do AUs and Time Travel.

Pretty much I am saying unless you are Rachel Summers and Kate Pryde I am skeptical of this device. Yana and Betsy can also do it. Pretty much you gotta be a Sapphic X-Men with a Sword.

And Boruto is so not that 🙃😛

So, just a general thing of discussion not related to the chapter... I saw a theory a little while ago speculating on what kind of "sage" Hashirama is.

Like, how Naruto was a Toad Sage and Katuo was a Snake Sage...

The speculation was that he was a "sun sage."

This was based partly on the idea that his cells are apparently capable of photosynthesis... But also based on his facial markings.

Spoiler

Show

the symbol on his forehead is very similar to the Chinese oracle bone script character used to represent the sun, and Chinese oracle bone script is the earliest form of the writing system that became modern Chinese and Japanese writing.

I'd post a picture of he character but I' having a hell of a time finding a picture of just the character.

Then there are his eye markings, which... Looks kind of similar to the Egyptian Eye of Ra

Spoiler

Show

especially when you combine it with the Ridge of his brow.

Being a representative of a Sun God... I mean, Kishimoto has drawn heavily from mythology and religion. This would be the only time he's gone further west than India but it's not too much of a stretch.

I'm not sure If I believe that theory, mind you, but... "Sun Sage" sounds cooler than "wood sage."

I am being 100% serious here but also I do not believe what I am about to write (I am joking)

The oldest usage of the circle with a dot in it comes from an Egyptian King Grave Site KV62, Valley of the Kings Grave Site #62, aka King Tuts tomb. In this tomb there is a funeral religious text talking about Osiris being reborn again and being reborn again as Ra, symbolized by the Sun (circle with a dot), but also the snake eating it’s own tale for creation recreates itself for something does not come from nothing but instead nature re-absorbs energy and changes it / transforms it in the process. This is one of the earliest references to the Ouroboros, the snake eating its own tale, to recreate the world in Alchemy.

So obviously Hashirama is a Snake Sage user and never a Slug or Toad Sage user.

Mitsuki is an Orochimaru anomaly, a son of their parent who is not like Orochimaru (breaking the chain of the parents narcissism.) A cold blooded snake whose Sigil is not the sun, or the wind, but instead the infinite possibilities of the moon which is full of illusion. This is why the moon courts the sun for the sun has a series to it, one day one moment one time, even if it reincarnates each night and is different in the light of the day. Who is Mitsuki if they are not their Parent Orochimaru? Well Mitsuki is themself (he / him pronouns) and he looks toward Boruto as inspiration of how to be himself when one already has a famous parent whose fame is so vast it feels like it is going to suffocate the identity of the kid.

[Rater202]

Oh, in a more lighthearted note?

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We have, in this chapter, explicit confimration that Naruto was never promoted past genin.