Duskblade build

[weenie]

I'll be soon starting to play in a game where I'll play a Duskblade. We have decided, that there should be no multiclassing whatsoever, so I'll be a straight Duskblade and since the game is a mercenary thing I'll also be our primary caster.

So here's the thing, I need a build from lvl 2 on complete with spells and feats. My stats are: 16, 15, 14, 14, 14, 14.(I rolled 3 14s in a row, couldn't believe it)

[RTGoodman]

I haven't read through it, but my Google-fu found this. I give you The Duskblade's Handbook.

[Suzuro]

Well, assuming you want to be the primary caster you are most likely going to want to lean more towards a wizard-y build, just for the spells, because I'm assuming the rest of your party has some melee warriors.


-Suzuro

[Fax Celestis]

STR 14
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 16
WIS 15
CHA 14

Take Arcane Disciple of some domain you like. Go with Power Attack and a big two-hander. Take Smiting Spell. Rock the casbah.

[TheThan]

No problem


Str 15, dex 14, con 14, int 16, wis14 , cha 14


Feats: power attack, (if human) skill focus: concentration

Skills: concentration: 5, sense motive 5, spell craft 5 knowledge (arcane): 1 spot: 2, move silently 2 (if human add the rest into knowledge (arcane)

Spells:
0 level
Acid splash, touch of fatigue, ray of frost, disrupt undead
1st level spells
Expeditious retreat, true strike, color spray


Note: I didn’t pick touch spells because you can’t channel them until 3rd level, so you’ll want to pick a few up then.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Alright, let's see what I can do here. No multiclassing at all? Shame. That's the best way to expand your (poor) spell selection. Still...

STR: 14
DEX: 14
CON: 14
INT: 16
WIS: 15
CHA: 14

Yes, put the 15 in Wisdom. Why? If you're the primary caster, you need greater spell versatility, since the only thing Duskblades can do is damage and two or three token buffs. This means taking the Arcane Disciple feat. Spell Domain (Player's Guide to Faerun, p. 91) is probably the way to go here, thanks to Anyspell. Travel, always a classic, gets you Fly and Teleport, which are two things everyone wants from their caster (also, free permanent Freedom of Movement is never bad). Analyzing all the available domains would take too long (since you don't get 9th level spells, Time/Planning/Luck/etc. are not no-brainers).

Other feats of importance are Arcane Strike, metamagic feats (and Arcane Preparation, unless you want to pick inferior Sudden Metamagic feats), and your choice of melee benefits: Power Attack/Leap Attack or Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack. Really, you should take Power Attack anyway, since you get True Strike and can just translate that into 40 extra damage.


Argh. Okay, sorry to tease here, but I'm just not feeling up to doing a full build. Remember my advice on feats, though. And here's my suggested spells, in order (struck-out spells are ones you should take and replace):

Cantrips: All of them. You should start with all of them thanks to your Int bonus.
1: True Strike, Magic Weapon, Ray of Enfeeblement, Swift Expeditious Retreat, Shocking Grasp, (you're kind of out of good spells for this level. Color Spray?). Domain: Longstrider
2: Ghoul Touch, Dimension Hop, Bear's Endurance (or whatever stat you don't feel like buying an item for), Scorching Ray. Domain: Locate Object
3: Vampiric Touch, Dispelling Touch, Ray of Exhaustion, Greater Magic Weapon. Domain: Fly
4: Enervation, Dispel Magic, Shout (since no one else will have AoE spells), Fire Shield. Domain: Dimension Door.
5: Disintegrate, Chain Lightning, pick two more since you'll have forgotten this by the time you get to 19/20. Domain: Teleport.

[Huduvudu]

Travel, always a classic, gets you Fly and Teleport, which are two things everyone wants from their caster (also, free permanent Freedom of Movement is never bad).

Unfortunately the text from Arcane Disciple only says that the domain spells are added to your class spell list, not that you get the special ability from the domain. I still support Travel, though.

[shaggz076]

So your a primary cast of the group as well as a Duskblade? Man that is just tough. I don't have my books with me at the moment but if you are going spell heavy, what is the rest of your party?


Human Duskblade
Str 14
Dex 15
Con 14
Int 16
Wis 14
Cha 14

Some primary spells to keep in mind of course would be Blade of blood as it is cast on a weapon and therefore doesn't need to use your 3rd lvl ability. The you want a ranges spell too so I would suggest Kelgores firebolt as you can use it as a great distance and even if a target has SR you still deal damage to them (Plus not att roll just a save). I as mentioned by others, would hold off on your touch spells until you get to lvl 3 so you can take full advantace of them but Burning hands although low damage is your only real area of affect spell for quite a while.

Feat wise, if you already have alot of hard hitters in the front lines then taking feats like Spell focus and greater spell focus evocation would be a good be to raise the DC to save against your attack spells. You will want to armor up as best as you can. (Chain Shirt and Light shield)

Kepp two weapons with you so you can change it up depending what you face. A mourning star and Long Sword are best because you then have B/S and P weapons while only carrying two with you.

Since you start with 900gp at 2nd lvl you should MW your armor and shield. Don't worry about your weapons as they are only for when something gets too close. But the standard adventurers kit from the PHB II. Gives you everything you need for one easy price.

Hope this helps.

[Wagadodo]

If you are going to have a lot of fighters in the group I would suggest going with reach weapon. Your damage dealing spells are mostly touch. You might also want to think about taking point blank shot and precise shot so you don't have a -4 to hit things that are in melee since most of your ranged spells are ranged touch spells.

[weenie]

Tnx for all the advice! Here's the final product so far for a melee oriented Duskblade. Feel free to comment.

Human
Str: 16
Dex:14
Con:14
Int:15
Wis:14
Cha:14
1: Ray of Enfeeblement, Swift Expeditious Retreat; Somatic Weaponry, Power attack
2: True Strike
3: Shocking Grasp; Cleave
4: Burning Hands +1 STR
5: Combust(if your DM lets you research it, else Scorching Ray)
6: Dimension Hop; G. Cleave
7: Touch of Idiocy
8: See Invisibility +1 STR
9: Vampiric Touch; Arcane Strike
10: Doom Scarabs
11: Greater Magic Weapon
12: Ray of Exhaustion; Empower Spell +1 STR
13: Enervation
14: Dimension Door
15: Dispel Magic; Rapid Metamagic
16: Fire Shield +1 STR
17: Polar Ray
18: Waves of Fatigue; Arcane Mastery
19: Hold Monster
20: Chain Lightning +1 INT

[Kizara]

Tnx for all the advice! Here's the final product so far for a melee oriented Duskblade. Feel free to comment.

Human
Str: 16
Dex:14
Con:14
Int:15
Wis:14
Cha:14
1: Ray of Enfeeblement, Swift Expeditious Retreat; Somatic Weaponry, Power attack
2: True Strike
3: Shocking Grasp; Cleave
4: Burning Hands +1 STR
5: Combust(if your DM lets you research it, else Scorching Ray)
6: Dimension Hop; G. Cleave
7: Touch of Idiocy
8: See Invisibility +1 STR
9: Vampiric Touch; Arcane Strike
10: Doom Scarabs
11: Greater Magic Weapon
12: Ray of Exhaustion; Empower Spell +1 STR
13: Enervation
14: Dimension Door
15: Dispel Magic; Rapid Metamagic
16: Fire Shield +1 STR
17: Polar Ray
18: Waves of Fatigue; Arcane Mastery
19: Hold Monster
20: Chain Lightning +1 INT

1) Cleave is sub-par but might work in your metagame. Great cleave is crap.
Take Leap Attack (Cadv) instead. Or, if you cant get the jump ranks to qualify for that, take, like improved initiative or something. Even Iron Will is more useful then great cleave. Frick, I think DODGE is more useful then great cleave...

2) Arcane Strike is golden, good choice.

3) Take Sudden Quicken or Sudden Empower instead of the metamagic feats you've chosen. Its a limited amount of times/day, but you can do it QUICKLY instead of as full-round actions and also without modifying spell level. Considering how crappy your spell level progression is and that you're spontaneous, this is golden for you.

4) Spell choices seem fine, maybe someone might have better suggestions.

[Grynning]

@ Kizara - The Sudden Metamagic feats are generally poor choices for a Duskblade. They can only be used ONCE per day, and the Duskblade gets an ability that mimics the best one, Sudden Quicken, as a class feature anyways.

I would say you may want to focus more on Int with your ability points than on Str. While it's true that Duskblades don't need an Int higher than 15, more spell slots to fuel Arcane Strikes and Channel Spells will give you more damage capability than more Str.

[weenie]

1) Cleave is sub-par but might work in your metagame. Great cleave is crap.
Take Leap Attack (Cadv) instead. Or, if you cant get the jump ranks to qualify for that, take, like improved initiative or something. Even Iron Will is more useful then great cleave. Frick, I think DODGE is more useful then great cleave...

2) Arcane Strike is golden, good choice.

3) Take Sudden Quicken or Sudden Empower instead of the metamagic feats you've chosen. Its a limited amount of times/day, but you can do it QUICKLY instead of as full-round actions and also without modifying spell level. Considering how crappy your spell level progression is and that you're spontaneous, this is golden for you.

4) Spell choices seem fine, maybe someone might have better suggestions.

1) I know great cleave isn't a good feat, but we'll probably be fighting large quantities of weaker enemies most of the time, so I tought that great cleave + arcane strike could be a nice combo.

2)Why thank you!

3) Nah, as Grynning wrote those aren't really good feats + Quickened spell has a LOT of prerequisites. And besides all that I took rapid metamagic(Complete mage), that lets you metamagic as a standard action. Empowered channeled vampiric touch? Yes please!

@Grynning: While that's true, the Duskblade already gets a ton of spells/day, so there's no real need for those extra few.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Still, -1 Strength gives you -1 hit and damage, which Duskblades also have plenty of. +1 Intelligence gives you +1 spell/day for level 3, +1 DC to all spells with saves, and +1 skill point/level.

It's up to you whether three moderately useful things are better than two very useful things. Personally, I'd end up bumping both to 16 anyway with levelups since I abhor odd numbers for primary stats, and start with 16 Int to squeeze in those extra 6 skill points. But I'm weird like that.

[Person_Man]

Take Gold Dwarf Dweomersmith from Races of Faerun. It's a very cheesy feat that helps any Gish-like build. It adds some really great spells to your list, such as Flame Blade, Keen Edge, and Holy Sword. Flame Blade in particular is massively useful, as it allows you to make all of your attacks touch attacks. The down side is that you can only use the feat if your DM allows Forgotten Realms material, and you have to be a Gold Dwarf.

[Craig1f]

Regarding Cleave ...

If your DM allows retraining, I would definitely DEFINITELY take cleave between levels 3 and 6, and probably push it to level 11. After 11, swap it out for something. Here's my reasoning.

Between levels 3 and 6 or so, you're at that point where, with a two-handed weapon, and against monsters with less than 20 hp, you can drop most monsters in one hit. That adds up to a lot of free attacks. After about level 6 or 8 or so, monsters that drop in a single hit become more scarce, and battles tend to be all over the place. Parties get split up, and cleave becomes less useful, although it's ALWAYS USEFUL. Additionally, you start getting iterative attacks, and haste becomes more and more available (it's cheaper for the spellcaster to cast it because he has more spells).

So when you're already getting 3 attacks a round, an extra attack via cleave is not as valuable. But when you only have 1 or 2 attacks, and one hit kills are common, it's a great choice.

Additionally, you can buy an enchantment for your weapon to gain Cleave as a +1 bonus. Late in the game, you might decide that's a worthwhile investment. Although, weapon bonuses are expensive.

[Soepvork]

No problem


Str 15, dex 14, con 14, int 16, wis14 , cha 14


Feats: power attack, (if human) skill focus: concentration

Skills: concentration: 5, sense motive 5, spell craft 5 knowledge (arcane): 1 spot: 2, move silently 2 (if human add the rest into knowledge (arcane)

Spells:
0 level
Acid splash, touch of fatigue, ray of frost, disrupt undead
1st level spells
Expeditious retreat, true strike, color spray


Note: I didn’t pick touch spells because you can’t channel them until 3rd level, so you’ll want to pick a few up then.

Skill Focus (Concentration) seems a bit wasted: First of all, I've never been a fan of wasting a feat for skill focus, especially for a class with relatively little skills. Furthermore, IIRC, a Duskblade gains Combat Casting on 2nd level, which at least covers a part of what Skill Focus (Conc) would cover.

[Dode]

Cleave and Greater Cleave are great with the Duskblade.

You're damn right I'm going to want Great Cleave on my Quickened True Striked, max power-attacked, Shocking Grasp-Channeled Greatsword strike.

An extra multiple on my charge seems kind of tame in comparison.

[Soepvork]

Cleave and Greater Cleave are great with the Duskblade.

You're damn right I'm going to want Great Cleave on my Quickened True Striked, max power-attacked, Shocking Grasp-Channeled Greatsword strike.

An extra multiple on my charge seems kind of tame in comparison.

You'll probably miss your Cleave attack :)

The Cleave feat states that the extra attack is “at the
same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous
creature.” Does this really mean that all bonuses and
penalties on the first attack roll—aid another, smite evil,
flanking, true strike, and so on—apply to the second?
The “bonus” referred to by Cleave means “base attack
bonus,” not “total bonus.” If a 6th-level fighter drops a foe with
his second attack, he makes the extra attack using his base
attack bonus –5 (the same “bonus” as he used for his second
attack).
If you aren’t flanking the new foe, it’s absurd to claim that
you’d get a +2 bonus on the attack roll just because you were
flanking the dropped foe. Any lasting bonuses or penalties—
such as from the bless spell, a high or low Strength score, being
fatigued, or the like—apply to the extra attack just as they
would to any other attack you make.

[Person_Man]

Cleave and Greater Cleave are great with the Duskblade.

You're damn right I'm going to want Great Cleave on my Quickened True Striked, max power-attacked, Shocking Grasp-Channeled Greatsword strike.

An extra multiple on my charge seems kind of tame in comparison.

Cleave is a poor choice. In order to qualify, you need to:

1) Drop an enemy.
2) Threaten another enemy.

So, they are useless if your DM uses single, powerful enemies. And its only modestly helpful if your DM uses small groups of enemies, netting you 1-2 extra attacks per encounter. It's helpful if your DM uses large groups of enemies. But large groups of enemies tend to make combat run very slow at low levels, and can easily be taken out by area of effect attacks at higher levels. And its also useless if you don't threaten another enemy when you drop your first enemy. So unless you're using a reach build, you'll often miss your chance to Cleave.

Great Cleave is a retarded choice. I've seen an otherwise well built Psychic Warrior with massive reach go an entire 6 month campaign without ever using Great Cleave. So so highly situational, you will almost never use it.

If you want to add additional, reliable attacks, consider the TWF tree, Snap Kick, or anything that adds a natural attack (Deepspawn, Deformity Teeth, Illithid Grapple). Any of these options will add an extra attack whenever you make a full attack, which is a lot more common.

[Dode]

Great Cleave is a retarded choice. I've seen an otherwise well built Psychic Warrior with massive reach go an entire 6 month campaign without ever using Great Cleave. So so highly situational, you will almost never use it.

And I've seen campaigns where Great Cleave came up nearly every encounter. Now, secondary, unlikely to hit attacks are really retarded for a Duskblade build until he hits all the way at level 13 when he can use his Arcane Channeling on a full attack.

[Craig1f]

You'll probably miss your Cleave attack :)

With full power attack, he'll miss. But he does have a point regarding channeled spells. Once you get that class ability that lets you do a full-round attack with your channeled spell, instead of just a standard attack, maximizing the number of swings you get in one round will be much more valuable.

What is that like level 12 or something?

[Craig1f]

And I've seen campaigns where Great Cleave came up nearly every encounter. Now, secondary, unlikely to hit attacks are really retarded for a Duskblade build until he hits all the way at level 13 when he can use his Arcane Channeling on a full attack.

I think it depends highly on the DM style. If your DM likes every encounter to be an epic battle of skill, then you're probably going to be fighting a small number of strong creatures, with maybe a few weaker creatures firing arrows into the fight.

If your DM likes to use a high number of easy fights, great cleave will be useful. Although, in easy fights, the cleave just shortens the fight ... it probably won't end up being a life-saver.

Cleave is nice though, if you're fighting a strong BBEG with some body guards. You target the bodyguard instead of the BBEG, get the kill, then cleave into the BBEG.

The only time that Great Cleave will really be useful, is if you have a very story-driven DM, with scenes (like I had Monday) where you're trying to protect a caravan from a number of raiders, that you can easily defeat, but for every round you waste, 2 or 3 guards or civilians are being killed, and some kind of undead, invisible, midget monster thing sneaks into one of the wagons and tries to steal a magic item.

Fortunately, we have a very experienced gamer in our group, and from the start of the fight, he was anal about guarding that wagon. When he left the wagon and came back, he avoided wasting any time, looked into the wagon and said "is anything in there?"
DM: Nope
PC: I cast blindsight .... is anything in there?
DM: Seriously? You're casting blindsight? Why?
PC: Yes I am. This attack is a distraction. They're after the chest. Do I see anything?
DM: There's a creature hunched over the chest.
PC: Seriously?
DM: Yes ... seriously.


In this case, we were fighting some homebrewed shadow-hounds with 50% miss chances. The extra attacks from cleave allowed me to kill enough of them to save a handful of guards, and keep the heat off of this guy, so he could focus on guarding the wagon.

Ironically enough, our Duskblade nearly died. I abandoned him to help the guards, and some of these hounds rolled very high on damage. My Barbarian took maybe two hits, but our Duskblade was below 10hp at level 6.

Without cleave, the fight would have gone on probably another two rounds, and more guards would have died. Now, they're just NPCs so who cares, but if you're really a roleplayer, every guard that died through a mistake you make weighs on your character's conscience.

[Soepvork]

With full power attack, he'll miss. But he does have a point regarding channeled spells. Once you get that class ability that lets you do a full-round attack with your channeled spell, instead of just a standard attack, maximizing the number of swings you get in one round will be much more valuable.

What is that like level 12 or something?

Level 13 actually. And even then maximizing the number of swings in a full-round action sounds more valuable than it actually is due to the FAQ-ruling.

At 13th level, the duskblade’s arcane channeling class
feature (Player’s Handbook II, 20) says “you can cast any
touch spell you know as part of a full attack action, and the
spell affects each target you hit in melee combat that
round.” If you hit the same creature more than once during
the full attack action, does the spell affect it each time you
hit?
No. The spell affects each target only once.

[Craig1f]

That's a strange ruling. I think it's meant to apply to spells that have non-damaging effects. It doesn't make sense to me that you can't hit something with shocking grasp multiple times.

[weenie]

That's a strange ruling. I think it's meant to apply to spells that have non-damaging effects. It doesn't make sense to me that you can't hit something with shocking grasp multiple times.

That would actually make the ability way overpowered.. 3 enervations in a round at lvl 13? Nah, thats simply too much. Not to mention 3 sudden maximized combusts.. Thats like 240 dmg in a round if all three hit. At lvl 13. Come on.