Considering GURPS

[Nasrudith]

I'm considering buying GURPS, the system and concept interests me. Are there any books any players/game masters would recommend? I'm going for 4th edition .

[Bag_of_Holding]

You'll want both Character and Campaign books if you're going GURPS. The latter has all the important rulings about combat, stat blocks for animals etc etc.

[MaxMahem]

Unless you have a REAL mind for realism I don't recommend actually getting the main books for GURPS. The setting is AWESOME when it comes to realisim, probably the best ever made, but it does this at the price of playability. Combat and what not is very accurate is GURPS, but is also very much a chore.

However, GURPS does have, hands down the flat out best setting books in the buisness. From cyberpunk to swashbuckler to outerspace GURPS setting books are just flat out the best. They've got one for just about every setting imaginable, and they are EXCELLENT. While I don't play the system I have a number of their books to use as reference material, plot hooks, and what not for others settings I do play.

You don't really have to know the main rule set to use them for this, but it helps.

[Ralfarius]

I'd say get the main ruleset, then decide what you want to play and find the appropriate book. Seriously, if you want to play it, GURPS has it, even if it's an edition old.

Some quick things to look at:
Supers - play super heroes with levels of power from members of the X-men to the core of the Justice League
Psionics - Good on its own, or to add in to Supers.
Mecha - If you're into the giant fighting robot thing.
Fantasy races - Well, yeah.

Uhh, pretty much anything that you might like for your setting. There are good books for low-tech settings, Scandinavian-folklore based Viking campaigns, cybepunk, steampunk, cthulhupunk, shapeshifters, space opera, post-apocalypse... The list just goes on.

[SofS]

I'll admit straight off the bat that GURPS is my favourite system. I can't recommend it too highly. That said, while it isn't unplayable as some suggest, it can be a bit thick. If you want to try before you buy, follow the link to GURPS Lite, which knocks the basics of the system together into a short PDF. It's free, it's official, and it's likely enough to play a setting book with if you're so inclined.

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/

[random11]

I'd recommend it, although I didn't play the last edition.

GURPS is a more realistic and less epic type of game. If that's what you're looking for, you found it.
I don't think the realism hurts playability too much, the combat and general skill system is not that complex after you get used to it.

Furthermore, there are many books you can buy, but GURPS is also a system that makes it very easy to use house rules and homebrew stuff (I easily created over 5 types of magic systems using this system).

One thing that might be a problem for first time players, work on the character creation with the players. Since it's a point based system and not a class based system, it creates a potential problem of unbalanced characters. Make sure that all the skills, advantages and disadvantages fit the type of game you want to play.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Get Mutants & Masterminds instead. Then buy GURPS setting books for non-superhero flavored adventures.

[Jayabalard]

unfortunately, I never got around to converting to 4th edition, so I'm limited as in how much advice I can give; this is kind of a mismash of advice for 3rd and 4th edition

I'd suggest the following:

1. Get the Core Rules; they've split it into two books in 4th Characters, and Campaigns, basically a Player book and a GM book.
2. Figure out what the basic Genre you want to play in: FAntasy, Sci-fi, Supers, Cyberpunk, Horror, Space, Mystery, Vampires, Swashbucklers whatever. Pick up at least one of these, more if you are really gung ho and think you'll get use out of multiple. I think that this list may have been winnowed quite a bit for 4th ed.
3. Figure out what Rules Supplement books you might need: Fantasy Races, Magic, Psionics, Powers, High Tech, Ultratech, Martial Arts; none of these are required, but they're kind of nice to have for some settings. I'm not sure that 4th edition has all of these
4. Figure out what settings book might be appropriate; I agree with several of the other posters and highly advise that you use one of their settings.

So, if you wanted to play a fantasy game:

• Core Books:Characters, and Campaigns,
• Fantasy, Genre Book
• Banestorm, Setting book
• Alternate Settings book: Discworld (This one is 3rd ed, but you can convert pretty easily I think)
• Magic would be useful if anyone wants to play a highly magic focused character

[WhiteHarness]

GURPS is awesome. Once, I gave up all other gaming systems except GURPS for ten years and was perfectly happy. Make sure you get the new Martial Arts book, too.

[Cybren]

You'll need the basic set to play, that's Characters and Campaigns.

GURPS is basically front loaded. It's whatever the GM wants it to be, so it is a lot of work for the GM. A lot. GURPS can play epic fantasy, or high powered super hero, or realistic, gritty game-noir, or what-have-you. But GURPS isn't so much an RPG system as it is a toolset for the GM to create their RPG system.

I would stick to just the basic set at first. As you and the other players get a better grasp of the system, pick up books related to what kind of games you're playing. Martial Arts is a must have if you have combat at all, but from there, it depends on what you want to do. Powers is useful, as it can be used to build everything from super powers to alternate fantasy magic systems.

[Satyr]

First off all, do you know Gurps Lite? It's the free preview version. Read it; if you like it, than consider to get the real one. The full system does not become much more complex,
The greatest strength of gurps is the extremely free character creation without much limitations, and, compared to D&D, much more exciting combats. Less mechanical/mathematical, every hit can be a real threat and it's fast and bloody, without being overly deadly.

[Sebastian]

However, GURPS does have, hands down the flat out best setting books in the buisness. From cyberpunk to swashbuckler to outerspace GURPS setting books are just flat out the best. They've got one for just about every setting imaginable, and they are EXCELLENT. While I don't play the system I have a number of their books to use as reference material, plot hooks, and what not for others settings I do play.

You don't really have to know the main rule set to use them for this, but it helps.

of course , if he only want setting books (i.e mostly fluff) he could go for 3rd edition ones, they are equally good and probably cheaper.

[Sebastian]

Also, can I suggest JAGS (www.jagsrpg.org) is a free RPG very GURPS like IMO and with some of the more interesting settings that I've ever seen both in commercial and free games, in my humble opinion. And I mentioned it is free? Not that GURPS books are not worth their price (they are) but JAGS it is worth giving it a check before to spend money in something else.

[Shadowdweller]

Unless you have a REAL mind for realism I don't recommend actually getting the main books for GURPS. The setting is AWESOME when it comes to realisim, probably the best ever made, but it does this at the price of playability.

I have to disagree with this. Virtually all of the minute detail in GURPS is optional. This system is very easily streamlined if the game starts to become sluggish. More importantly, skipping the main book also skips the character creation basics. Which is, IMO, the best part of the system.

Combat does, IMX, tend to lag a bit in GURPS. Mostly due to the combination of short 1-second rounds (as opposed to D20's six) which can get a bit tedious with many players, and the mechanics of active defense. However, it is still very playable for the most part. Out of combat, there's also a fair amount of skill and other minutiae to look up in some situations.

[Nasrudith]

I already read GURPS lite and felt it was a great system.

[Fhaolan]

GURPS' flexibility is it's biggest Pro and also it's biggest Con. (Mind you, I'm still working 3rd edition. I haven't converted to 4th yet, so my opinion may no longer be valid.)

It's very easy to build a nonsensical character, because the rules don't restrict you much, if at all. The Players and the GMs have to exercise a lot of restraint, or you'll end up with an adventuring party of 'One orc shaman, a brain in a jar, and a sessile psionic rock' adventuring in early 1800's Australia that is being secretly invaded by pixies who are actually from Alpha Centari.

[Jayabalard]

The Players and the GMs have to exercise a lot of restraint, or you'll end up with an adventuring party of 'One orc shaman, a brain in a jar, and a sessile psionic rock' adventuring in early 1800's Australia that is being secretly invaded by pixies who are actually from Alpha Centari.

It's a better system for mature players than it is people who can't handle that kind of freedom.

Then again, I'm sure you could have fun in a game like the one that you describe.

But GURPS isn't so much an RPG system as it is a toolset for the GM to create their RPG system.

Agreed, GURPS is more of a framework than a complete system

[Mike_G]

It's very easy to build a nonsensical character, because the rules don't restrict you much, if at all. The Players and the GMs have to exercise a lot of restraint, or you'll end up with an adventuring party of 'One orc shaman, a brain in a jar, and a sessile psionic rock' adventuring in early 1800's Australia that is being secretly invaded by pixies who are actually from Alpha Centari.

That was pretty much my exact experience with GURPS.

I like it, overall, but it is a lot more work for the GM than D&D, and I think the Disadvantages can be problematic, in that players get rewarded for playing an Impulsive, Bloodthirsty, Alcoholic, Meth addicted Pyromaniac with bad BO who's wanted in 47 states.

[BardicDuelist]

GURPS' flexibility is it's biggest Pro and also it's biggest Con. (Mind you, I'm still working 3rd edition. I haven't converted to 4th yet, so my opinion may no longer be valid.)

It's very easy to build a nonsensical character, because the rules don't restrict you much, if at all. The Players and the GMs have to exercise a lot of restraint, or you'll end up with an adventuring party of 'One orc shaman, a brain in a jar, and a sessile psionic rock' adventuring in early 1800's Australia that is being secretly invaded by pixies who are actually from Alpha Centari.

Didn't the SciFi channel make a movie like this?

In all seriousness, I am interested in GURPS as well, but my current group is pretty new to RPG for the most part (except me and one other player), so I was wondering how hard it is to teach/learn for newer players.

[Mike_G]

Didn't the SciFi channel make a movie like this?

In all seriousness, I am interested in GURPS as well, but my current group is pretty new to RPG for the most part (except me and one other player), so I was wondering how hard it is to teach/learn for newer players.

The mechanic is simple enough, and like D20, is the same for pretty much all skills and checks. Character gen is fun, but, like I said, you get more points to spend on skills and abilities if you take Disadvantages, which are really easy to abuse, and while "Really loves waterboarding" may not be something you'd tell your prospective father in law, it's not as much a disadvantage in game as it is a DM nightmare.

Parties have a tendency to wind up with three Belkars, two Mikos and one Vaarsuvius, and no Roy to keep them in line, since "long suffering leader" isn't worth more Character Points but Sadistic, Self Righteous and Megalomaniac all are.

[Saph]

Parties have a tendency to wind up with three Belkars, two Mikos and one Vaarsuvius, and no Roy to keep them in line.

Oh God, yes. I played a long-running GURPS campaign once. It was exciting, but most of the excitement came from surviving the rest of the party. Out of the following list of disadvantages - Bad Temper, Bloodthirsty, Odious Personal Habits, Stubborn, Pyromaniac, Megalomaniac, Major Delusion, Paranoid - pretty much every PC had three or more. The de facto leader of the party was a dwarf with Bad Temper, Stubbornness, Bloodlust, Odious Personal Habit (stinks), and Odious Personal Habit (loud tuneless humming - which the player roleplayed). He also thought he was a king. He was responsible for killing no less than three other PCs in separate incidents. Two more PCs died by committing suicide. Not a single PC was killed by enemies, accidents, or monsters.

You know a party is messed up when you're playing a semi-feral nature mage and yet end up being the most peaceful and mentally stable character in the group. It was quite hilarious, in a dysfunctional kind of way, but I'm glad that I've never since then had to play in a campaign where sleeping in camp with the party was more dangerous than sleeping on my own in the wilderness.

- Saph

[BardicDuelist]

The mechanic is simple enough, and like D20, is the same for pretty much all skills and checks. Character gen is fun, but, like I said, you get more points to spend on skills and abilities if you take Disadvantages, which are really easy to abuse, and while "Really loves waterboarding" may not be something you'd tell your prospective father in law, it's not as much a disadvantage in game as it is a DM nightmare.

Parties have a tendency to wind up with three Belkars, two Mikos and one Vaarsuvius, and no Roy to keep them in line, since "long suffering leader" isn't worth more Character Points but Sadistic, Self Righteous and Megalomaniac all are.

Luckily, I'm used to this from my previous party (who played CN to Evil at least every other adventure, although rather well), and no-one in my current party (or my last one for that matter) powergames in the slightest.

[Azerian Kelimon]

In my case, things went the other way around. NO ONE took major disadvantages (Some players took minor ones, like Honest, etc.), and we mostly worked our optimization with the normal amount of points. The end result was, we ended with a party of several average joes, which was a lot more believable than most fantasy (all kinds of fantasy, not only the classic medievalesque one) and a lot more fun to play. But then again, my group is the kind of people willing to devote a whole session around a solo adventure, so we probably aren't someone you can use to measure the average player.

[Saph]

In our case it was due to the mechanics. GURPS has physical and mental disadvantages. Physical ones give you mechanical penalties; mental ones give you roleplaying penalties. So the power-happy types all maxed out their mental disadvantages, giving them as many points as possible to spend on their characters and turning them into complete nutcases in the process.

That said, it was kind of amusing. I still remember the mission where we were attacked by dark elves during the night, and then by darkness demons as we tried to run away. Everyone made it away safe - but then the next morning an argument started over breakfast. By the time the fighting was over, five of the seven members of the party were unconscious or dying on the ground, which was more than the dark elves had managed to do.

- Saph

[Sebastian]

I like the way Fate, or even better Spirit of the Century, handle disadvantage better than GURPS, it is more playable and more helpful for roleplay IMHO. Essentialy is the GM that says when your disadvantage "kick in" and when it does you gain one (or more) Fate Point that you can use for a number of things, plus with some imagination and forethought some so-called "disadvantages" can be used in your favour, if you pay a Fate point to do it and come up with a good reason, for example use paranoid to get a bonus against an ambush, or Coward for a bonus to hide, just to name two, you gain fate point when your traits are used against you (and this can be true for almost all traits, even many of those considered positive, and you pay fate points to use your traits in your favor, all within reason, of course.

[Niknokitueu]

One thing that might be a problem for first time players, work on the character creation with the players. Since it's a point based system and not a class based system, it creates a potential problem of unbalanced characters. Make sure that all the skills, advantages and disadvantages fit the type of game you want to play.

This is the most important thing to remember about GURPS. As the GM, it is your ball park that the players are playing in. You have the final say on all character creation aspects.

Having played in several GURPS campaigns, and run one as well, I can authoritatively say that it is best for players to come up with a character concept, flesh it out, and let you do the actual character creation yourself. If they do not like the result, work through their concerns and make some relevant adjustments to the stats and abilities of the character.

That way you avoid anyone choosing a 75 point flaw and building an obscene (but fatally flawed) character. Unless you want to, of course... :evilgrin:

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

[Shhalahr Windrider]

It's free, it's official, and it's likely enough to play a setting book with if you're so inclined.

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/

Y'know, there are few things that bother me more than "It's free! But you have to download it from the store, which means you have to set up an account."

The Players and the GMs have to exercise a lot of restraint, or you'll end up with an adventuring party of 'One orc shaman, a brain in a jar, and a sessile psionic rock' adventuring in early 1800's Australia that is being secretly invaded by pixies who are actually from Alpha Centari.

Hey! Some of us like that kind of setting.

[Baxbart]

I'm a long time, utterly hardcore GURPS player, and I have been for more than ten years (D&D is actually my secondary, along with SWd20).

Yes, its a lot of work - but if it is done right, GURPS boasts some of the most realistic, comprehensive and varied rules for any setting, technology level or battle. It is a fantastic rules set, but it does require some serious learning if you want it to run smoothly, and without stopping every 5 minutes to look something obscure up.

When I started, I was 11, and for the first... 7 years of playing, I was the only person in the group who didn't need GM supervision and guidance on what to do, when to roll etc. I have the 3rd edition books (Basic, Compendium 1 and Compendium 2, along with a fair wedge of the fantasy setting-type rules, magic and the ilk) pretty much commited to memory. If I hadn't spent such a vast amount of time learning it (not entirely of my own free will... but because my players were too lazy to learn how to play), I can understand why it might run slower.

These days, GURPS is pretty natural to me, so I don't necessarily see how difficult it can be as a learning curve for some people.

I would, however, HIGHLY recommend it. Just remember one thing, GURPS is most definitely better suited to lower point total games (Lesser heroes, not quite the cinematic, world-beaters of D&D), because you will die, horribly. Not a lot has changed from 3rd to 4th edition (I play both at the moment, depending on my taste, or my GM), but the gritty realism stays the same. A normal starting character (100points), who isn't completely geared up to be a combat monster (e.g. no social or mental skills whatsoever, and all points pumped into physical stats, combat advantages and weapon skills), then don't hold out much hope of being able to fight more than one enemy at a time.

For realism, GURPS is fantastic. For fantasy, its also great - as long as you realise that you are very much mortal in this game. It also, as mentioned above, has an absolutely vast range of material to call upon (I believe 3rd edition had over 150 sourcebooks before 4th came out a couple of years ago).

If, however, you feel that you'd like to play a cinematic-style fantasy game, or one where you won't die in one decent hit - d20 tends to be better; with its stacks of HP/vitality, and world-shattering powers.

I will mentions though, just quickly, that GURPS does (in my experience) tend to fall apart a bit towards the higher points. Because of its realism, without some measure of introduced optional rules (which are provided in the books, so the GM doesn't have to homebrew them, just be able to book-keep a little more), a Superhero could potentially be slain quite easily by an unlucky bullet, or get crippled and never be able to use his legs again...

GURPS combat is not your friend, and it never will be! I currently have a 100 point barbarian-type fighter reliving a GURPS conversion of D&D's Caves of Chaos module. Even after entering with 7 people in the party, he only survived through sheer fortitude and luck (3 people remain, including him. Two of them are barely able to walk, and my character is a complete pincushion of goblin crossbow bolts. He should be dead at least 5 times over by now, but somehow he survived).

Plus, if any of my players decides to GM a game and let me play, we basically have to play low points, or have some handicap inflicted upon me - because I know how to break GURPS in a huge amount of different ways

[BardicDuelist]

Y'know, there are few things that bother me more than "It's free! But you have to download it from the store, which means you have to set up an account."


Hey! Some of us like that kind of setting.

It wants you to, but you don't have to (there is a bypass button). I agree, though.