The Marvels , you know that new superhero movie

[Sapphire Guard]

Saw this, thought it was above average, to be honest. There was a lot of press about how it was doomed, but there was nothing much wrong with the film.

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There's a bit of a tone problem between the complete destruction of entire peoples being secondary to the internal issues of the leads, but it was to be expected for Marvel( the studio, not the character). Weirdly, Kamala Khan was able to deliver the 'this is how I am feeling' scenes the best of the three leads.

All that aside, it's a fairly well put together story. Captain Marvel is so powerful that she is difficult to write for, they got around that by making the problem not 'how do I overcome the villain' but 'how do I overcome the villain without hurting this teenager'

And her being secretly a Princess by marriage of a musical planet was funny.

[GloatingSwine]

Saw this, thought it was above average, to be honest. There was a lot of press about how it was doomed, but there was nothing much wrong with the film.

Yeah, it's paying the price for the uninspiring TV series and post-Endgame movies but in itself it's a good movie. Snappy and has inventive action scenes that make good use of the premise they set up of switching places with their powers.

I think if I'd had the power to make one change:

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I'd make Carol show more direct antipathy to the Kree, so that restarting Hala's sun at the end is clearly the result of a personal philosophical change for her. She could have done it at any time but had baggage with them to get over before she would.

[Carl]

Yeah, it's paying the price for the uninspiring TV series and post-Endgame movies but in itself it's a good movie. Snappy and has inventive action scenes that make good use of the premise they set up of switching places with their powers.

I think if I'd had the power to make one change:

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I'd make Carol show more direct antipathy to the Kree, so that restarting Hala's sun at the end is clearly the result of a personal philosophical change for her. She could have done it at any time but had baggage with them to get over before she would.

I took Monica's comment to indicate Carol never realised she could do that. Carol is the "Hulk-Smash" of the trio being very direct about how she uses her powers, Monica is the fancy one who thinks about such details and realises Carol could do that. It took Monica pointing it out for Carol to realise she had a solution in her hands the whole time.

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It's pretty clear from her big breakdown scene after kamala jumps them away from the missiles that she has anything but apathy towards the kree, even when she destroyed the Supreme Intelligence it's clear she was thinking as much about how it would help the Kree as it would help those the Kree where fighting.

Her whole deal with not returning to earth this whole time is about how her attempt to help everyone ended up hurting the kree rather badly, the fact that it went so wrong and hurt the Kree so badly left her pretty broken up emotionally.

[Clertar]

Carol is the "Hulk-Smash" of the trio being very direct about how she uses her powers, Monica is the fancy one who thinks about such details and realises Carol could do that. It took Monica pointing it out for Carol to realise she had a solution in her hands the whole time.

That's interesting. Captain Marvel, as the name indicates, is like the cosmic Captain America (strong and powerful, but using the powers as a soldier would, as a weapon) while Monica is more like Spider-man or other scientifically-oriented superheroes (thinking things through with a scientific mind, and exploiting all the angles and cracks of the powers available). That could be a nice dynamic going forward, leaning on the superpowered soldier and the superpowered scientist.

[137beth]

They changed the rules so that only people who bought tickets through their platform could review it (I'm not user if that's still the case)... But the fact remains that they never bothered to do anything about POSITIVE review bombing, which was at least as common and intense as its negative counterpart...

They did do something about it, though: before the change, one person could make a million sockpuppet accounts and have them all leave a positive review. After the change, to leave a review you have to buy a ticket to the movie to leave a positive review.

On the other hand, they have not done anything about fake reviews for TV shows: those are still bot/sockpuppet-fests.

[Psyren]

Yeah, it's paying the price for the uninspiring TV series and post-Endgame movies but in itself it's a good movie.

It's also paying the price for the SAG-AFTRA strike having kept them from doing any promotions.

Which I view as a solid silver lining for this whole thing - we have an MCU movie that is at least good on its own merits if not great, but because the studios decided to play chicken with their creatives, now they're feeling the pain in their bottom line. Hopefully the suits realize not to mess with collective action going forward.

[Ramza00]

That's interesting. Captain Marvel, as the name indicates, is like the cosmic Captain America (strong and powerful, but using the powers as a soldier would, as a weapon) while Monica is more like Spider-man or other scientifically-oriented superheroes (thinking things through with a scientific mind, and exploiting all the angles and cracks of the powers available). That could be a nice dynamic going forward, leaning on the superpowered soldier and the superpowered scientist.

Yes

But one could see Carol and before that “Mar Vell” as parodies and pastiches of Superman and Shazam (the Fawcett Comics character which DC got the rights to in the 70s.)

Captain Mar Vell was originally just flaunting Trademark, but became its own thing where you are critiquing earlier concepts done by other companies (going Meta), here you have a character whose name is picked to remind you of Kon El and Kara Zor-El, Super Man and Super Girl … and Captain Mar Vells big nemesis is the guy Thanos named after I Thanatos a god of death and control.

And after several backs and forths Marvel did their first Graphic Novel which was the death of this Superman and Shazam expy, 10 years prior to the Death of Superman (it was 1982, the superman epic was 1992, Gwen Stacey dying was 1973.) And this man did not die in some superhero confrontation in the first graphic novel it was due to Cancer caused by an earlier adventure with an exposure to Nerve Gas.

=====




So my point here is these characters are loaded with cross genre meaning. Mar Vell was a Superman and Shazam expy. Ms Marvel was her own thing but in the end decades from now she becomes like that other guy in the 00s.

And the MCU did not decide to do this origin but Monica Rambeau was a Miles Morales expy for the dead Captain Mar Vell for she was introduced 9 months after the other guy died of cancer in a Spider-Man annual. She had no connections to the earlier man, but she had a sense of responsibility and spunk, practical know how and everyday scientific knowledge. She had no role models, but she did what she needed to be done. She claimed those words Captain and Marvel not knowing about the other guy, and some people got mad but The Thing would not allow it, for she is doing good in the world and it is not some trademark fight, the name should live on doing good.

Yadda yadda yadda in the next 10 Years she joins the avengers and is leading the team doing feats that cause Thor to be shocked, and earning Zeus respect when Zeus was fighting the avengers.






Sorry for the lot of words but I was trying to say the inspiration for these characters are not Steve Rogers.

[Psyren]

Mar Vell was a Superman and Shazam expy.

I think there's some Abin Sur in there as well, complete with Carol and Hal both being hotshot pilots.

[Eldan]

So, tl;dr: It's really quite good.

And I'm saying that as decidedly a non-marvel fanboy. The last three marvel movies I've seen were Okay, Pretty Good and One of the Worst Movies I've ever seen. I'm also all out of ****s to give about the various TV series and have been for a long time.

Less tl;dr:
It's funny, but not too Marvel-quippy(1); it continues character arcs, but doesn't feel to me like it relies on continuity bull****(2), the action is really quite good (3) and didn't overstay its welcome like in some movies that felt like half the movie was just the final fight (4) and I even liked some of the things they did for worldbuilding (5). And just some minor nitpicks that did not at all distract from anything. Even Brie Larson and the character of Captain Marvel clicked much more for me in this one. Khamala Khan is still very charming and I like her a lot, even if her series was overall not very good (but all the actors were).

Mid-credit scene is exactly what I think the entire internet has been expecting for years.

1) Planet Bollywood was funny and well done, and didn't overstay its welcome. The flerkens(?) are actually well-used.
2) Every character you need to know is explained in two-sentences and an introductory scene and you get what they are about, even if you've mostly forgotten about them. I'm pretty sure you can watch this without having seen the Ms. Marvel or Scarlet Witch TV series and won't feel lost. Maybe not so much Captain Marvel, but even that isn't too bad. Skrull good, Kree evil, Captain Marvel fought the Kree before, done. Only recurring characters are the three Marvels, Nick Fury and Khamala Khan's family.
3) Interestingly, I'd say the action scenes started good and progressilvely got less interesting as the movie went on. The final boss fight was positively understated and the first proper fight with the three heroines teleporting all over was by far the best.
4) cough, guardians, cough
5) Finally getting a real sense of Earth changing? We have a space elevator now, and a space station, and holographic phones. Nice.
6) The usual "wouldn't it be much easier to get water from an uninhabited planet/asteroid belt" popped into my mind for a sec, but then, this is also a revenge plot against against the Captain, and also I guess the jump points mostly go to inhabited planets in the first place, plus... it really wasn't difficult for the Kree to just walk all over some other planets. In some scenes it looked like the space elevator connected to the rim of the rotating space station instead of the hub, which is a minor annoyance. And of course the eternal "The Earth is getting destroyed by an alien fleet, where the heck are Earth's other heroes. I'm sure Doctor Strange or Hulk could have helped a lot with this one."


Edit after reading other people's opinions:
Agree it could have used a few more minutes explaining how Kree went to hell and how exactly it's Carol's fault. As set up, it feels a lot like she just destroyed the government and then the Kree killed their planet in a civil war, which is really only very tangentially on her.
Also agree that the power levels are all over. Literally orders of magnitude (i.e. rocks are an obstacle, but Carol can ignite a star). But while I'm usually super nitpicky, it wasn't a problem for me here. The movie is short enough and fast paced enough that I didn't feel like nitpicking, which is a high compliment. It doesn't make sense and I didn't care, the movie pulled it off.

Double edit:
As for feminist message: I'd say that lands in this movie a lot better for me than in the first Captain Marvel. Here, we just have three very competent, well-characterized, well-acted female superheroes saving at least two planets and fighting a female villain and no one feels like they need to be anvilicious about it.

[Zevox]

Just got back from seeing it. Pretty good - not one of the best Marvel movies, but very far from bad. I'd say that of the post-Endgame films it ranks at my fourth favorite, after Guardians 3, Multiverse of Madness, and No Way Home. Better than the first Captain Marvel movie too.

I like how it embraces the goofiness of comic book stuff, but without going full comedy like the Guardians films and the last two Thor movies, that worked quite well for me. The dynamics between the main characters were good, Khamala is adorable, and everyone plays well off each other. There are some points where the logic of things is wonky

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like how it's doubtful that if the villain siphoned the sun through that portal in a stream like she was doing it would materialize as a stable star on the other side,

but they're ultimately minor. I will say the way the villain is defeated is a bit of anti-climax, but I can't really say I have stronger criticisms of it than that.

Oh, I should probably say, I have not watched any of the Marvel streaming shows, and that did not seem to impact my ability to follow the movie at all. Although it was a touch weird that Khamala's powers were different than I've seen elsewhere, but what she has now are basically Green Lantern style powers, which I'm very cool with since I love those.

Spoiler: Credits scene.

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And we're finally setting up for the X-Men to be introduced into the MCU, too. Took long enough. Weird that they're in an alternate universe to begin with, but I guess they're building towards a multiversal crisis of some sort with the announced Avengers movies that'll probably bring them into the MCU's main universe proper when it resolves. That was pretty much what Multiverse of Madness teased at the end anyway.

Had to look it up, but apparently Binary is one of the alternate code-names Carol has gone by before in the comics? Odd that it's being used an AU version of Monica's mom, then; I assumed when they said it that it must be Monica's comic code-name. Seems like it'd make more sense to use one of Monica's code-names, of which she's apparently had several to pick from. But eh, minor stuff.

[GloatingSwine]

Spoiler: Credits scene.

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Had to look it up, but apparently Binary is one of the alternate code-names Carol has gone by before in the comics? Odd that it's being used an AU version of Monica's mom, then; I assumed when they said it that it must be Monica's comic code-name. Seems like it'd make more sense to use one of Monica's code-names, of which she's apparently had several to pick from. But eh, minor stuff.

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Most if not all of Monica's wide array of superhero names were in among the ones Kamala was suggesting

[Ramza00]

I think there's some Abin Sur in there as well, complete with Carol and Hal both being hotshot pilots.

Oh totally 👍

Spoiler: Credits scene.

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And we're finally setting up for the X-Men to be introduced into the MCU, too. Took long enough. Weird that they're in an alternate universe to begin with, but I guess they're building towards a multiversal crisis of some sort with the announced Avengers movies that'll probably bring them into the MCU's main universe proper when it resolves. That was pretty much what Multiverse of Madness teased at the end anyway.

Had to look it up, but apparently Binary is one of the alternate code-names Carol has gone by before in the comics? Odd that it's being used an AU version of Monica's mom, then; I assumed when they said it that it must be Monica's comic code-name. Seems like it'd make more sense to use one of Monica's code-names, of which she's apparently had several to pick from. But eh, minor stuff.

Spoiler: Comic Lore, Chris Claremont and how it impacts Carol Danvers

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So Chris Claremont was the main X-Men writter in their golden age from 1975 to 1991. He also did other superheroes and this includes Ms Marvel Vol 1 not as the writter who launched the book but was the main writter for said book before it got canceled due to editorial wanting a new direction for the lines, for there was a new editor and he wanted to change the old projects the last editor okay.

So CC got one of his favorites canceled, a character who reminded him of his mom for his mom was a bad ass women who is also a pilot so CC did not give Carol her pilot backstory but he does create a dozen female pilots over the years.

Thus Chris Claremont does the whole Ms Marvel vs Mystique and how Mystique daughter Rogue inherits / steals Ms Marvels powers including brain damage / amnesia. And then Carol becomes binary in an X-Men book.

https://cmro.travis-starnes.com/char...&character=395

Aka here is Carol’s reading order of appearances, starting on page 3 notice from 1981 to 1991 she is a X-Men and X-Men spinoff character and Carol gets big mad in 1983 when Rogue her abuser comes to Xavier and asks for help for Rogue has not been coping well since 1981 either. Carol got better during that time but Rogue is still haunted by the copy of Carol inside of her.

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Uncanny_X-Men_Vol_1_171

Well Carol leaves the X-Men and Rogue joins the team but Carol as Binary is constantly showing up again and again.

=====

So that Binary end credit scene is not just about Blue Frasier Beast, it is showing we are going to have Binary in the X-Men like classic 80s even if we are going to change all these details (for example Hank / Beast was in Avengers, then Defenders, then X-Factor in the 80s none of which had the mansion where Hank was talking to Charles then.) Remember not all X-Men are mutants, they adopt all forms of found family like Carol, Aliens, and so on.

[Eldan]

Post-credits scene:

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I've actually seen this theory going around for years. Like, since about Endgame, at least?

People have been saying that X-men probably work better in their own universe for a while now. They have their own giant stable of characters, with teams, and subteams, and villains, and side-organisations. And they just seem to work on very different principles than all the other heroes. So instead of the kinda wonky idea of heroes being adored, but mutants hated, we just have a second universe, where there's mostly mutants as a power origin, and all the superpowers are hated by the public. So the X-men can mostly do their own thing and have their own message and if necessarily team up with the rest of the multiverse via portal shenanigans.

[Zevox]

Spoiler: Comic Lore, Chris Claremont and how it impacts Carol Danvers

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So Chris Claremont was the main X-Men writter in their golden age from 1975 to 1991. He also did other superheroes and this includes Ms Marvel Vol 1 not as the writter who launched the book but was the main writter for said book before it got canceled due to editorial wanting a new direction for the lines, for there was a new editor and he wanted to change the old projects the last editor okay.

So CC got one of his favorites canceled, a character who reminded him of his mom for his mom was a bad ass women who is also a pilot so CC did not give Carol her pilot backstory but he does create a dozen female pilots over the years.

Thus Chris Claremont does the whole Ms Marvel vs Mystique and how Mystique daughter Rogue inherits / steals Ms Marvels powers including brain damage / amnesia. And then Carol becomes binary in an X-Men book.

Aka here is Carol’s reading order of appearances, starting on page 3 notice from 1981 to 1991 she is a X-Men and X-Men spinoff character and Carol gets big mad in 1983 when Rogue her abuser comes to Xavier and asks for help for Rogue has not been coping well since 1981 either. Carol got better during that time but Rogue is still haunted by the copy of Carol inside of her.

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Uncanny_X-Men_Vol_1_171

Well Carol leaves the X-Men and Rogue joins the team but Carol as Binary is constantly showing up again and again.

=====

So that Binary end credit scene is not just about Blue Frasier Beast, it is showing we are going to have Binary in the X-Men like classic 80s even if we are going to change all these details (for example Hank / Beast was in Avengers, then Defenders, then X-Factor in the 80s none of which had the mansion where Hank was talking to Charles then.) Remember not all X-Men are mutants, they adopt all forms of found family like Carol, Aliens, and so on.

Huh. Okay, fair enough, guess they have a reason to want to use that particular name under the circumstances, then.

[ArmyOfOptimists]

Didn't have much going on so I caught a cheaper showing of it today. It's more or less what I expected. A solid 3/5 movie that's not going to shake the world, but isn't anything to hate either. It's a fun romp with some superheroes that doesn't overstay its welcome.

Maybe my own bias, but Kamala was the standout character. She's goofy and enthusiastic, gets a few scenes to show off her powers, and seems like the one most enjoying being there. Conversely, Monica felt like a wet blanket on the film. As the stock "I don't want to be a superhero" character, she sucks all the air out of the room. It didn't help that she got the silly technobabble dialogue either.

The best thing about the film is that it's genuinely fun and, while it has humor in it, it's not the quippy type that needs to punctuate every scene. Aladna was an amazing moment since it's goofy as hell but has very little of that "So, that happened." quipping going on.

On the downside, they really need better directors for the cosmic side of Marvel. Way too many scenes were shot flat and uninteresting, or with basic shot-reverse shot angles. This setting should be awe-inspiring, unchained from reality. Get some DBZ action in there or something.

[Eldan]

Yeah, Monica wasn't great Doesn't help the technobabble is mostly "What if we used our powers on it?"

[Murk]

I agree with everyone here that this was a fine movie. Not great, but certainly not flop-worthy to the extent that it's flopping.

I actually quite liked Monica, which was a happy surprise after Wandavision. She was a good straight-man for the other two's hijinks.

I do feel the emotional beats of the movie required some more time to breathe. Or less of them. More time per emotion, anyway.

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"You can't just beat every problem into submission" is a good lesson for Captain Marvel to learn, but we got very little of it, and most of the character development happened off-screen.

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"What if you just beat the sun into submission, though?" was then a nice twist! Using destruction for good! But again: there was very little introspection done, and beating the sun into submission got ten seconds of screentime.

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Several times a planet or an ally had to be sacrificed (the Skrulls, the Bollywood people, Monica herself) and after a few moments of sadness, promptly forgotten about. This too could have been a good message or moral, and it was at times even mentioned - that you can't get hung-up on loss or imperfections. But that too got only very superficial attention.

But I liked it! Having a brash, emotional superhero that just punches problems until they're not a problem anymore is nice. Especially after so many reluctant heroes.

[pendell]

Well, the movie is flopping, and flopping hard. But ... as people here have written, it's not actually a bad movie. Not terrific, but definitely passable entertainment.

... maybe this is what is mean by 'superhero fatigue'? It's not a bad movie , but in a world where a person has a zillion entertainment options through streaming, cable, or whatever else, "passable entertainment" just isn't enough to get someone out of their house and down to the theater. It might have worked if it was the first superhero movie in a decade, not so when it's one of dozens.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Psyren]

Well, the movie is flopping, and flopping hard. But ... as people here have written, it's not actually a bad movie. Not terrific, but definitely passable entertainment.

... maybe this is what is mean by 'superhero fatigue'? It's not a bad movie , but in a world where a person has a zillion entertainment options through streaming, cable, or whatever else, "passable entertainment" just isn't enough to get someone out of their house and down to the theater. It might have worked if it was the first superhero movie in a decade, not so when it's one of dozens.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

I think it's a combination of superhero fatigue finally catching up to Marvel, inability to promote the film properly due to SAG-AFTRA, and general online hate for at least two of the primary cast.

We'll see what kind of legs the film has in subsequent weeks but it doesn't matter to me personally, I enjoyed it and word of mouth is starting to spread. I care more about what Feige will do going forward.

[DaedalusMkV]

I suspect a large part of the reason it's not doing great is that Marvel hasn't exactly done a great job of giving people a reason to trust that its movies will be good (recent memory at this point is Thor 4, Black Panther 2 and the widely reviled Ant-man 3), combined with the fact that what promotional material is out there for this focused hard on characters the movie-going audience may not have been familiar with - I for one was very much under the impression that if I hadn't seen Ms. Marvel's TV show I might as well not bother considering watching this movie.

I also was very much not a fan of the first Captain Marvel movie (no hate-on for Brie Larsen, she did fine with the awful script she had to work with in that film), so it would have been a challenge to get me through the door for this one even if I hadn't left Guardians 3 with a strong feeling that I had just watched a great ending to the MCU as a whole.

[warty goblin]

Or put differently, there are 32 other Marvel movies. That isn't counting the TV shows, or any other superhero franchises.

A superhero movie coming out isn't cool or unique anymore. It's really pretty much the opposite, it's a deeply normal thing that happens a couple times a year and has for the better part of a generation. On its face this is just not exciting.

Then there's the inevitable problem that, as entry 33, it's probably not top of the quality heap. It's probably pretty mid, and you've seen mid quality Marvel like 5 times already. Tonally most of the time these movies occupy a pretty narrow band - lighthearted character action with a nonsense plot and forgettable villain - so if you want that, why not just rewatch one of the ones you know is good? The Avengers is right there on D+, you already paid for it, and you can watch it at home, in bed, wearing pajamas.

[Trafalgar]

I've heard people blaming this flopping on the strike, on superhero fatigue, on review bombing, and toxic fandom. I don't know about any of that but I will tell you why I am not going by talking about the characters:

Captain Marvel aka Carol Danvers - I saw Captain Marvel in the theatre when it came out. I don't remember that much about it or having any strong feelings about the movie one way or the other. Kinda like I don't remember anything about Ant Man 2 or Iron Man 2 or 3. It was just another Marvel movie, not great but not bad. My only complaint was the credit scene in Infinity War made it seem like watching Captain Marvel would be important before seeing Endgame. Which it wasn't.

As far as the comics go, I don't have an opinion. I have never read a story just about Captain Marvel. She would show up in some of the Avenger comic books I owned. Rogue stole her powers from Carol Danvers - that's the main thing I remember.

Ms. Marvel aka Kamala Kahn - I heard the Disney+ series was good but not many people watched it because it came out at the same time as Obi-Wan. I don't have Disney+ so I didn't see it. I have never read any of the comic books so I don't know anything about the character.

Monica Rambeau - I never watched Wandavision. I can remember seeing some versions of her in some of the comics I owned but never as a major character.


I think this is a failure of Disney's plan of introducing characters on Disney+ show's and then basing movies around them. A friend who watched the Marvels said it helps if you also watched Secret Wars. I haven't seen any of those series. Ticket prices at my local movie theater is up to $18 a pop. It's just not worth it for me to watch a movie about characters I don't care about when the absolute best reviews say the movie is "Meh, it's not that bad".

Not that you can't make a good movie about little known characters. James Gunn has made that his specialty. But Guardians of the Galaxy had much better reviews before it came out.

[Wintermoot]

I'm not going to get into the discussion about why and how the movie isn't making much bank.

But I will say that I enjoyed the movie, but wouldn't put it in the higher echelon of marvel movies. The three main actors were all good in their roles, even if I have a native distaste for Kamala's over-the-top childishness. at least she's on brand and doing what is asked of her to do.

I don't mind the slide into comedy that all current Marvel movies are undergoing. Based on the sublime merging of comedy and drama by the Guardians Movies and the first two Ant Man movies, it's not terrible to see that propagating. Some do it well, some don't. And that's a matter of personal taste anyway. (for example: I disliked Thor Ragnorak for trying to go both ways (pathos and comedy) but really enjoyed Thor 4 once they gave up and slid all the way down the comedy firepole. But most people seem to have the opposite opinion on those two movies. )

I do hope it stops at some point or at least they open up the possibility to have more mature/serious movies as well as the funnier ones. I wish other directors could perfect James Gunn's method if they are all going to try to be James Gunn.

So I thought they did a fine job and I enjoyed it.

Now, as a nerd and someone who enjoyed continuity, I -wish- they would address some continuity issues. For example: Ms Marvel. In her series she is introduced as a normal kid who gets a magic bracelet that gives her powers. Then over the course of the series we learn that she is the great granddaughter of an interdimensional magic creature (Clan Destine, Djinn) which seems like it was basically an alien who came from another dimension.

Marvel has a real problem, both in the comics and the movies, of having consistancy around different worlds, different dimensions, different universes, different timelines, etc etc.

In the movies, we started with different worlds. Asgard and the other nine realms where all planets, connected by a rainbow-colored transportation network.
Then we got other dimensions. Dr. Strange gave us "the dark dimension" and introduced time travel and the consequences of time travel (multiple timelines)
We also got the Quantumverse. A seeming dimension at the subatomic level in which time runs differently.

In Ms. Marvel, it seemed that the location the Clan Destine came from was another such dimension (like the dark dimension) and not a different universe/timeline (ala What If or Spider Man or EndGame)

So we learn that why Ms Marvel can use the bangle, is because of her other-dimensional mixed blood. Great. I'm fine with that.

But then we get a throwaway line at the end where they try to force her into being a mutant? I mean, is that mutation due to her otherdimensional bloodline? Or is it something different. because if its meant to be the x-factor of x-men lore, i'm not going to be happy if its contingent on otherdimensional bloodlines. And I'm not going to be happy if is separate either because now its getting convoluted.

Also, it seems like most of the creators are reaching a point where they are treating "other dimensions" and "other timelines" as interchangeable. I feel like they aren't consistent on if there is a difference and why. But they certainly treat some dimensions (Dark Dimension, Quantumverse, Clan Destine, the Egyptian land of the dead from moon knight) as something different than other timelines in some products.

Furthermore, we see at least one scene in the movie where Ms Marvel uses her power WITHOUT the bangle. So I guess the power is in her all along? Then what's the bangle for?

Also in the movie, we find out that bangle is one of the quantum bands that was used to create the jumpgate systems. Okay. So its NOT from this other dimension? or did it start there and come here and then get used to make the jump gate system?

I would just really like someone to explain how it all works and lock it in stone, because right now it comes across like they don't know and don't care. which annoys me, as a continuity junkie.

I don't expect them to do so. After all, they never did in the comics. They would sometimes decide one way, then another writer would come along and retcon it a different way. Seems like the movies are doing it the same way.

I would have preferred if they would've kept the mutant out of it entirety. Just let her have her powers THROUGH the bangle BECAUSE of her bloodline and stop there. If they absolutely needed her to use her power without the bangle, I want a line in there where she is surprised she still has her powers and someone to explain why she does.

Then there is Monica. I don't remember her being a super scientist in Wanda Vision, but she is now one in this movie? I guess they needed someone to be the science guy, but it seemed kind of superfluous addition to the character. I also, would've liked more and better explanation of her powers which, obviously, have grown and evolved since WandaVision.

So, those are nerdy complaints, and honestly, they reflect that I overall liked the movie. Because movies I don't like, I don't bother thinking about and wanting to understand the discrepancies.

[Ramza00]

Accept the mystery and do not get loss in continuity

The whole idea of Quantum is there is no smooth operation of continuity, things can appear out of nowhere. Like how the world has been cursed since Tony Stark unleashed the arc reactor on the world like a Prometheus stealing fire from Thors people.

[Psyren]

But then we get a throwaway line at the end where they try to force her into being a mutant? I mean, is that mutation due to her otherdimensional bloodline? Or is it something different. because if its meant to be the x-factor of x-men lore, i'm not going to be happy if its contingent on otherdimensional bloodlines. And I'm not going to be happy if is separate either because now its getting convoluted.

Isn't she a mutant in the comics now too though? I can see them wanting to align that for efficiency's sake, now that they own all their own toys again.

[VampiricLongbow]

Isn't she a mutant in the comics now too though? I can see them wanting to align that for efficiency's sake, now that they own all their own toys again.

She is a mutant now. The failure of the Inhumans show basically killed all initiative to do anything with them outside the comics.

[Ramza00]

Isn't she a mutant in the comics now too though? I can see them wanting to align that for efficiency's sake, now that they own all their own toys again.

She was a mutant in concept development before final printing but editorial wanted to push Inhumans due to IP reasons with fox and marvel/disney contracts (makes sense), so the early concept was radically reworked.

She has been a mutant since July of this year, and her mutant power reveal, her second power (inhuman stuff suppressed it) by the end of her Mutant Miniseries, which will be at the end of the month of Nov (last issue of a 4 issue miniseries, that is taking place during a larger Krakoa event that has been going on since late summer)

[Saph]

She was a mutant in concept development before final printing but editorial wanted to push Inhumans due to IP reasons with fox and marvel/disney contracts (makes sense), so the early concept was radically reworked.

She has been a mutant since July of this year, and her mutant power reveal, her second power (inhuman stuff suppressed it) by the end of her Mutant Miniseries, which will be at the end of the month of Nov (last issue of a 4 issue miniseries, that is taking place during a larger Krakoa event that has been going on since late summer)

ramza, seriously, how the **** can you keep track of or even understand this stuff. I read that second paragraph of yours three times and I still have no clue what it means.

If it was any other subject I'd assume that you just explained it in a really confusing way, but given that it's Marvel I suspect that you just described it 100% factually and it really is that insanely convoluted.

[Tyndmyr]

So, I watched it, and it's...okay. It isn't amazing. It isn't terrible. You can sit down, watch it, and neither have your life changed nor feel as if one's life has drained away before their eyes.

As a side note, AMC does not offer the kitten-themed soda cup separately, but only offers it for purchase as part of a $40 combo with the world's ugliest and spoilery popcorn bowl. This does not include tickets. Long story short, my lovely fiance now has her kitten cup, and you have a slightly salty review that is definitely not related to this scalping. I'm not apologizing.

The Review:

Spoiler

Show

Alright, so this is a movie even tangentially related to the Marvels, and therefore the bad guys are Kree. Kree come in two flavors, faceless mooks, and generic evil overlord. This evil overlord probably has a name, but it's not really relevant to anything, and I'm not looking it up. She also has Ronan's hammer, which also has a name. You remember Ronan, right? Wielded a badass hammer that glowed purple, could detonate anything it hit, etc in Guardians of the Galaxy before we all forgot about him? Anyway, that hammer. You're telling me that this hammer was destroyed in that same movie? And that the infinity stone powering it was clearly destroyed by Thanos in Endgame?

Do not worry about such things. Continuity will get worse, far worse, and focusing on meaningless things like "names" or "motivations" or "object permanence" will only distract you from what is to come.

Anyways, Captain Marvel is to blame for being evil, and also a coward, which is a pretty sound basis for a revenge plot, even if it does sound like something written by the worst haters of her last movies. She struggles to remember the things that happened while she was mind controlled, which we see as she relives the things she did after recovering from mind control as a result of regaining her memory. This consists mainly of blowing up the AI building, and this caused the sun to go out. Kind of. It's almost out, but it can be repaired with ten seconds of work, as is normal for stars. That's what happens to stars when you don't have an AI around to...yknow, never mind, it's plot time.

In this portion of the movie, all three heroes are ensnared by the power of quantum technobabble which means that, according to the movie, they switch places whenever they use their powers at the same time. Do not believe your lying eyes, for they will tell you falsehoods like that multiple of them are clearly activating their powers and not switching, or sometimes only two will switch, and sometimes all three, and sometimes switches happen without power activation, and sometimes objects come with, and sometimes they don't. For instance, in one instance, a character that does not need a spacesuit to breath in space is wearing a spacesuit, and those clothes do not come with because the character swapping to her position would die otherwise. This having been solved, clothes are never left behind again, and the character who doesn't need a spacesuit never again uses a spacesuit. In one occasion, the swapping forgets its own rules to the point that two people take the place of one people.

Anyways, the villain has the literal power making holes to suck, and wants to steal air and...crap, this really is just the plot of Spaceballs, isn't it? Anyways, the heroes fail to stop this by virtue of spending perhaps a ten minute fight scene trying to take down a couple of unpowered mooks. Obviously, Captain Marvel cannot hit them hard enough to actually knock them out or anything, that'd be unrealistic. Obviously, there are about ten shots of some random human being threatened by them, but they are saved at the last moment, only for the same thing to happen again.

The main tension at this point is not, yknow, the world ending whatever that is happening, but instead, that Monica is harboring a grudge against Carol for leaving her, which is kind of a lot to put on your mom's friend from work from thirty years ago. Fortunately, you can pay absolutely no attention to this conflict, as it will not affect the events of this film in any way.

There is a secondary plot as well. It is tribbles, but the tribbles are cats flerkins. All the escape pods on the space station are ceasing to work for...reasons. There is only one left, then, worse, another one blows up and there are only two left. Nick Fury solves this horrible situation by feeding his crew to an alien apocalypse that he then delivers to earth. This section is played for laughs, and, frankly, I quite enjoyed it. Haters might say that this is not strictly a good idea by in-universe thinking, and that flerkins have previously been shown to actually be quite dangerous, but I suggest that these are not actually people, and are thus immune to damage. We know this because Nick Fury loads them into a ship which he drops from orbit, spinning, on fire from re-entry, and crashes it at speed into the earth. He then gets out and comments that his elbow is hurts. Clap, my friends, clap along like a barking seal as the MCU demonstrates that no consequences can ever be real.

Meanwhile, in the main plot, the three women have gone to visit Planet Music, which is a planet that is 99.63% water, and we will spend 100% of our time focused wholly upon the land. Everyone here sings and dances exclusively, and this, we are told, is Carol's home, her people, and in a case of wild hijinks, her husband. Anyways, everybody dies and if you're thinking questions like "How can a hole moderately larger than a spaceship possibly consume and entire atmosphere or ocean in fewer than several thousand years, and furthermore, how did air going up make rocks collapse down?" you are wasting your time, because physics has no place here. Anyways, everybody in Planet Music dies, I guess, but the heroes solve this by never thinking or talking about this planet again, as one usually does regarding one's home, friends and spouse after a casual genocide.

The final battle to save the Galaxy happens on Earth, because of course it does. The villain wants to steal the sun, our star, and obviously the sun is located pretty much right next to earth. This hole, however, is a bad hole. They're all bad holes, but this is a worse hole than the other holes. The hero swapping stops at this point, because reasons, and Monica woefully tells her team that she must seal the bad hole from the other side. They nod along. She starts sealing the hole from the other side. Carol suddenly observes that the other side is not this side as her sole brain cell springs into action, and slowly begins to realize that Monica will not be coming back. Monica thoughtfully explains this in exhaustive detail for the benefit of that last, struggling brain cell, and through the power of CGI, the hole is eventually closed in a hole vs glowy person chase scene. Monica is lost forever, and therefore this constitutes a victory, because it permits the Mouse to introduce Cameo Time. The End.

[VampiricLongbow]

ramza, seriously, how the **** can you keep track of or even understand this stuff. I read that second paragraph of yours three times and I still have no clue what it means.

If it was any other subject I'd assume that you just explained it in a really confusing way, but given that it's Marvel I suspect that you just described it 100% factually and it really is that insanely convoluted.

Wanda and Pietro Maximoff constantly have their backstories fiddled with as well. During the whole Disney vs Fox issue, both of those characters were retconned in the comics to be completely unaffiliated with all things Mutant.