Madame Web Trailer

[Psyren]

Well... uh... 50 Shades of Spider Seer looks set to be one of the movies of all time.



The cast page spoils the villain's identity some key castmembers with ties to the wider mythos, so avoid that if you're planning to see this for some reason.

(Isn't she supposed to be blind in the comics?)

[Dragonus45]

The idea of a Madam Web movie feels like it is scrapping to close to the bottom of the barrel, so why does this look anywhere near remotely compelling? This is confusing and I don't like it. I'm just gonna say that the cast page is... interesting in a promising way. Even if I am sad to see who the made into a villain for this one.

[Trixie_One]

Yeah, it's getting absolutely crucified in reactions elsewhere, but dare I say it looks alright? Certainly better than the Kraven trailer, and I dig that they're specifically making it a mid 2000's period piece.

[ArmyOfOptimists]

I think the more interesting thing that the cast page spoils is

Spoiler

Show

Mary and Ben Parker are in the movie, essentially making this a prequel to the Tom Holland Spider-Man movies. I don't actually see a villain spoiled other than Ezekiel Sims, but the trailer does that already.

It's probably going to be terrible, but I have a soft spot for Russian Doll-style rewinding the timeline stuff.

[Batcathat]

Feels like someone needs to tell the creators of the movie and/or the trailer about "show, don't tell", but might be worth a look (as someone who grew up with the 90s animated Spider-Man, I do have a soft spot for Madame Web, even if this version is very different). Kind of an odd choice of main character for a movie, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

The cast page spoils the villain's identity, so avoid that if you're planning to see this for some reason.

Unless I'm confused about who you're talking about, don't they literally mention the name in the trailer?

[Psyren]

I think the more interesting thing that the cast page spoils is

Spoiler

Show

Mary and Ben Parker are in the movie, essentially making this a prequel to the Tom Holland Spider-Man movies. I don't actually see a villain spoiled other than Ezekiel Sims, but the trailer does that already.

It's probably going to be terrible, but I have a soft spot for Russian Doll-style rewinding the timeline stuff.

Unless I'm confused about who you're talking about, don't they literally mention the name in the trailer?

Yeah I mixed up two of the actors. Carry on

[Batcathat]

Does anyone know if there's like a copyright reason or something that they're not naming it "Spider-Women" or something like that? They seem to make up most of the main characters and I would think it would have more name recognition than Madame Web.

[ArmyOfOptimists]

They probably ran some names past focus groups and found that Madame Web had a stronger response than Spider-Women.

Related, I always find it funny that the comic arc "Secret Wars", famous for debuting Spider-man's Black Suit, was named something completely different during writing and was changed because Mattel's focus testing revealed that the words "secret" and "wars" scored highest for their teen boy demographic.

[Wintermoot]

well at the time the movie was originated a couple years ago, there was a Madame Web resurgance in the spiderman books so...

It appears that Cassandra Webb, in the movie, is going to be a paramedic and the granddaughter of an amazon explorer that looks like she was part of an expedition with Ezekial, Richard and Mary Parker. So i guess we are going with that Peter's parents in this universe are the scientist types who end up creating the spider that transforms their own son later on. So the ultimate back story. It also seems to suggest to me that this isn't in the same universe as the Sony/Marvel Peter, but rather the Venomverse or some other universe.

After getting the ability to see the future, she uses the power to save the three future spiderwomen from Ezekial who is, i assume, hunting them down to absorb their spider totem like in the spider man comic he showed up in.

So we see Anya Corazon, Mattie Franklin and Julia Carpenter as the three teens that Cassandra is saving.

I suspect we'll get a lot of "spider totem" and magic out of this. If they do it right, they'll tie it in with the fauna-based "magic" they are exploring in the upcoming Kraven the Hunter. They can get a shared universe out of this if they keep trying!

I also suspect that Cassandra will end up sacrificing herself at the end and her powers will transfer to Julia. Then the three teen girls will start a super-teen group.

[Dragonus45]

Does anyone know if there's like a copyright reason or something that they're not naming it "Spider-Women" or something like that? They seem to make up most of the main characters and I would think it would have more name recognition than Madame Web.

Almost certainly because they want to save that name for something else while trying to see if they can make Madam Web take off as a character.

[warty goblin]

Spider-woman is a dull title, you instantly know what it is; distaff Spiderman. Madame Web sounds like the nom de plume of the madame of an internet brothel from an episode of CSI circa 2008. Much more attention getting.

[Rynjin]

Can't wait. It's definitely morbin' webbin' time again.

I have to respect their gumption at least. They really don't care what people say or how much money they lose, by gum they're gonna release a movie about every D-tier Spider-man supporting character or their name isn't Sony.

[Tyndmyr]

Welp, this looks to be fairly spider-centric, as opposed to Spiderman, which mostly doesn't involve spiders at all. I don't like spiders, so that's an automatic pass.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Yeah, it's getting absolutely crucified in reactions elsewhere, but dare I say it looks alright? Certainly better than the Kraven trailer, and I dig that they're specifically making it a mid 2000's period piece.

Yeah, they're running with something specific and I dig that. Definitely looks more interesting than Kraven.

[Lemmy]

They really are doing it, huh...

I'm sure it'll be an astounding success... And no one at any point will blame "super-hero fatigue" or "toxic fans" for the incredible amount of money it'll certainly make.

[Errorname]

Feels like they've been threatening to make this movie for like a decade, in spite of all good judgement or sense.

[Buufreak]

Refresh my memory. Madame Web was the old lady that precipitated the dimension wars and the dozen or so PPs meeting and fighting spider carnage in the animated 90s series, right?

[Ramza00]

Refresh my memory. Madame Web was the old lady that precipitated the dimension wars and the dozen or so PPs meeting and fighting spider carnage in the animated 90s series, right?

Yes ^{warning comics are insane}

Note the cartoon changed all the lore for Madame Web 1.0 making her a dimensional being … in the comic she is merely a mutant old lady who saw the future and her introductions is that two gay men tried to kidnapped her, their plan was for her toreveal lotto numbers for cash. These two gay men are Juggernaut and Black Tom (aka Magical Human related to Prof X as a Step Brother with red armor, and a Mutant Druid who is rivals with his Irish Cousin who screams and flies the Banshee.) Then Spider-Man and concrete got involved for the future seer saw she was going to get kidnapped and thus invited Peter Parker to the Party, creating a famous 1980 comic.

=====

I say Madame Web 1.0 for there are other Madame Webs afterwards like the Spider-Woman Julia Carpenter (not the first Spider-Woman and Julia has gone by other names like Arachne, Madame Web, and Spider-Woman.). Think of Julia as a blind seer who still sees things like Daredevil, with telekinetic webs, and the standard superpowers of speed, strength, and durability. Also the Venom Costume is based off one of Julia’s earlier looks in the 80s.

Likewise there are other people who have worn the Spider-Woman mantle besides Madame Webb. *gestures at the trailer*

[Psyren]

Can't wait. It's definitely morbin' webbin' time again.

I have to respect their gumption at least. They really don't care what people say or how much money they lose, by gum they're gonna release a movie about every D-tier Spider-man supporting character or their name isn't Sony.

There's probably some kind of "use it or lose it" clause in their license.

[KillianHawkeye]

There's probably some kind of "use it or lose it" clause in their license.

That definitely used to be the case for Spider-Man. I wonder if it still is since Sony and Marvel made a new deal to share Spidey somewhat?

[VampiricLongbow]

Why do Madam Webb and not... Literally any other Spider-Man character? Why not make a Silk movie? Or any of the various Spider-Women? Or... Do Scarlet Spider... Anything. This is almost as bad of an idea as Kraven.

[Psyren]

That definitely used to be the case for Spider-Man. I wonder if it still is since Sony and Marvel made a new deal to share Spidey somewhat?

It would be... really dumb of Marvel to not include that in the new version, otherwise Sony could sit on the film rights for eternity whether they make anything or not.

I was originally wondering if Sony negotiated exclusivity for the videogame rights too (hence Spiderman being PS exclusive in the Avengers game, in addition to his mainline games) but if they'd done that, he likely would have been exclusive in Midnight Suns too.

[Mechalich]

Why do Madam Webb and not... Literally any other Spider-Man character? Why not make a Silk movie? Or any of the various Spider-Women? Or... Do Scarlet Spider... Anything. This is almost as bad of an idea as Kraven.

The trailer makes it pretty darned obvious this movie involves Dakota Johnson's Madame Web protecting three young women who will become Spider-Women in the future (the names are on the cast list, nothing is being hidden here). The idea seems to be to use this movie to test the capabilities of Celeste O'Connor, Isabela Merced, and Sydney Sweeney in order to determine which of them and their characters could potentially anchor a franchise.

Assuming they manage to make this movie cheaply - which the whole time loop approach facilitates since you can reuse sets and effects and stuff - and have it not be terrible that's not really that bad of a plan. The was kind of how Sony did Venom, and that worked. However, Venom worked because Tom Hardy committed to the bit and did crazy Tom Hardy things. My confidence in Dakota Johnson's ability to carry a major film is nonexistent.

[VampiricLongbow]

The trailer makes it pretty darned obvious this movie involves Dakota Johnson's Madame Web protecting three young women who will become Spider-Women in the future (the names are on the cast list, nothing is being hidden here). The idea seems to be to use this movie to test the capabilities of Celeste O'Connor, Isabela Merced, and Sydney Sweeney in order to determine which of them and their characters could potentially anchor a franchise.

Assuming they manage to make this movie cheaply - which the whole time loop approach facilitates since you can reuse sets and effects and stuff - and have it not be terrible that's not really that bad of a plan. The was kind of how Sony did Venom, and that worked. However, Venom worked because Tom Hardy committed to the bit and did crazy Tom Hardy things. My confidence in Dakota Johnson's ability to carry a major film is nonexistent.

I was not thinking along those lines. That is a good idea!

[KillianHawkeye]

It would be... really dumb of Marvel to not include that in the new version, otherwise Sony could sit on the film rights for eternity whether they make anything or not.

Well I assume that Marvel had to give up SOMETHING to get Spider-Man into the MCU. It's a huge win for Marvel to have been able to put Spidey into Captain America: Civil War and the Avengers films, and having him interact with characters like Iron Man, Nick Fury, and Doctor Strange in his own solo movies. But what Sony got out of the deal is less obvious.

Anyway, Sony wouldn't just sit on the Spider-Man rights. He's like the most popular comic book character ever! That'd be like having the ability to print money and just choosing not to.

[VampiricLongbow]

Well I assume that Marvel had to give up SOMETHING to get Spider-Man into the MCU. It's a huge win for Marvel to have been able to put Spidey into Captain America: Civil War and the Avengers films, and having him interact with characters like Iron Man, Nick Fury, and Doctor Strange in his own solo movies. But what Sony got out of the deal is less obvious.

Anyway, Sony wouldn't just sit on the Spider-Man rights. He's like the most popular comic book character ever! That'd be like having the ability to print money and just choosing not to.

I was digging around to see if anyone had any details on the new deal, when I saw the original deal:


"Now, a deal could be made — but Sony didn't want to be in the business of licensing. Still reeling from a Chapter 11 reorganization, Marvel agreed to flat-out sell the film rights to Spider-Man—and his expansive library of characters—to Sony. For a single $7 million payment, Sony would own the film rights to Marvel's most popular character, and Marvel would receive 5-percent of any movie revenue and a 50/50 split in any merchandising efforts."

I had forgotten just what a great deal Sony got back in the day. Wow.

[Wintermoot]

My (admitted imperfect) understanding of the Sony/Marvel spiderman split is this:

As stated, Sony made a sweatheart deal back in the day to get the rights to spiderman and about 170 additional named characters considered part of the spiderman "franchise". In addition, they got access to any future created characters that originated in a marvel spiderman series. So they would have access to, say, Mr. Negative or Anti-Venom or other characters created after the deal in the pages of a spiderman comic. This is why, marvel has, multiple times, originated a character in a different comic first before shoving them into spiderman over the last few years.

Sony's deal required them to make a movie, using the characters rights, relatively often periodically. They made spiderman 1, 2 and 3. 3 lost money. They ****canned the cast and relaunched with the Andrew Garfield spiderman and didn't get the return they expected.

At that time, Marvel started making movies that were WILDLY successful. Disney bought them. Sony started having financial difficulties and a few in process spiderman projects fell through and collapsed. They were looking at the possibility of losing their rights from not using them and not in a financial position to make a quality movie.

So then the new deal happened between disney and sony. Disney would pay for the movie, make the movie, showrun the movie, integrate the movie into their successful universe and Sony would distribute it. In fact they would origin the new spiderman in their upcoming captain america movie to ensure crossover audience. Sony leapt at the chance

So Marvel has produced and showrun the three new movies (all of which have been wildly successful) with Sony distributing them and splitting the monies. Now that deal is over and we are waiting to see if Sony (wisely IMO) makes a new deal or decides "NO! We'll make the movies from now on and get all the monies!"

Sony still owns the 170+ characters in addition to spiderman and are trying to make an extended universe of their own. So we have the Venom movies, the Carnage movie, the Kraven and Madame Web movies.

Someone asked about why they don't call the movie "spiderwoman" or "spiderwomen". Although neither Sony nor Marvel have published this list of 170+ characters, I bet that Jessica Drew is NOT ON THE LIST as spiderwoman was never particularly part of spider-man's cast and didn't originate in a spider-man series. So I bet there is some question if they even have access to "spider-woman" or not.

As for why they aren't making a "silk" movie. Silk originated in her own series didn't she? I think she is one of the characters Marvel was careful to originate outside of Spiderman to flaunt the original in place agreement. Besides, she hasn't ben particularly successful has she?

So what did Sony get out of this new deal? Someone who knows how to make successful movies to make their movies. And its worked. If Sony made a mistake it was in making the first Venom movie nebulous as to whether or not it was in the marvel universe or not becuase Sony didn't want to commit to it one way or the other. And now they've decided "no, all our properties are in a different universe" I'm astounded that they didn't end "No Way Home" with Peter being "lost" in the Sony-verse instead of just forgotten and left in the Marvel-verse. But I think they are still wishy-washy and unwilling to commit when they may need/want marvel to make them future movies.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

First half of this looks interesting enough to watch. I’m less sold on ‘here is a whole new team of spider-girls we expect you to care about!’ but we’ve got an obvious main character to focus on, maybe that will help. Tentatively interested in this.

[KillianHawkeye]

Thanks for the great and thorough explanation, Wintermoot!

[Dragonus45]

Refresh my memory. Madame Web was the old lady that precipitated the dimension wars and the dozen or so PPs meeting and fighting spider carnage in the animated 90s series, right?

Yes, although the show didn't really get into her backstory and character at all. She's actually a mutant which if it gets brought up in this could have some interesting implications.