El Goonish Shive X: Please Don't Feel Bad

[Anonymouswizard]

Old Pandora/Box/Jar also seemed to have a liking for Sarah and explicitly awakened Justin, it's not impossible that she'd see him as part of her protectorate.

The memory also seems to be a brief snippet of her thoughts from the marking, not anything more substantial. We know she hung around the comic shop at minimum enough required to mark Justin (so probably when Tedd was there), so she was probably economical but wasn't the best at prioritizing what she should pass on.

[Gez]

I don't see what's weird about Pandora deciding to remember Justin in her next incarnation, when clearly she has decided to remember enough about the shop that Hope decided to join the card tournament and had a list of cards ready. All knowledge about the card game must have been things that Pandora decided she needed to remember, too, for whatever reason. It honestly would be odd, then, that she decided she could forget about Justin when he's the shopkeeper and tournament judge.

And yeah, based on the font change in the third panel here, it's definitely something that Pandora planned for some scheme; not just a bit of whimsy because Hope is now a nerdy child.

[Silly Name]

Pandora probably passed on as many memories of recent events to better help Adrian, Tedd, Sarah, Susan and Diane - this would include the people she marked in Moperville (useful info in case some of them end up as troublemakers), and memories of Tedd's friends (because she cares for Tedd).

Justin doesn't have to be important to Pandora/Hope: he's important to Tedd, Sarah and Susan, so Pandora would want to remember as much as she can about him, the same way she would try to remember Grace, Elliot, Ellen, Nanase, Edward and so on.

Why she cares about Not!MtG is another matter entirely, but I suspect it may be an innocent plan: simply a way to relate to Tedd and Sarah more than any complex plan to protect her family.

[KillianHawkeye]

Why she cares about Not!MtG is another matter entirely, but I suspect it may be an innocent plan: simply a way to relate to Tedd and Sarah more than any complex plan to protect her family.

I'm guessing she'll use the card tournaments to "meet" everyone again. Whether it's a prelude to a full reintroduction, or she simply wants to be some small part of their lives.

[Reboot]

One wonders what Hope's cash situation is, since it's now come up in comic. Since Pandora was older than dirt, she had every opportunity to accumulate funds in some way, but we never saw any sign of her having done so.

I don't see what's weird about Pandora deciding to remember Justin in her next incarnation, when clearly she has decided to remember enough about the shop that Hope decided to join the card tournament and had a list of cards ready. All knowledge about the card game must have been things that Pandora decided she needed to remember, too, for whatever reason. It honestly would be odd, then, that she decided she could forget about Justin when he's the shopkeeper and tournament judge.

Maybe, but she seems to barely remember his name, so him as a whole probably was low on her priority list, and the flashback seems to be more about her "evil" thoughts on the matter. Maybe it's just a reminder not to let herself get that way again, especially if she planned to enter the tournament post-refresh and would almost certainly trigger the flashback.

Justin doesn't have to be important to Pandora/Hope: he's important to Tedd, Sarah and Susan, so Pandora would want to remember as much as she can about him, the same way she would try to remember Grace, Elliot, Ellen, Nanase, Edward and so on.

Grace counted as family for her

(BTW, we're all agreed Hope was the one following Diane who took her to the nurse's office then ran away, right? Even though it's not been linked in Hope commentary yet)

Why she cares about Not!MtG is another matter entirely, but I suspect it may be an innocent plan: simply a way to relate to Tedd and Sarah more than any complex plan to protect her family.

Well, it's definitely a way to meet them, at least.

I'm guessing she'll use the card tournaments to "meet" everyone again. Whether it's a prelude to a full reintroduction, or she simply wants to be some small part of their lives.

Well, she has to meet Sarah, and to do it before she Awakens. If she doesn't help her Awaken, she would have some serious side-effects, even after her reset/refresh.

(The question of what Hope can do is an open one, of course, given that she's a "baby" Immortal now. But if she can't at least convince herself she did something toward the vow, bad times ahead.)

[Yuki Akuma]

Well, she has to meet Sarah, and to do it before she Awakens. If she doesn't help her Awaken, she would have some serious side-effects, even after her reset/refresh.

(The question of what Hope can do is an open one, of course, given that she's a "baby" Immortal now. But if she can't at least convince herself she did something toward the vow, bad times ahead.)

Pandora has honestly already helped Sarah to awaken by giving her a spell. If Sarah awakens without further input from Hope, the vow will probably be fulfilled rather than broken.

[Reboot]

Pandora has honestly already helped Sarah to awaken by giving her a spell. If Sarah awakens without further input from Hope, the vow will probably be fulfilled rather than broken.

She made the vow well after that though. Vow was during Sister III pt 5 (strip of 12 Oct 2016), Sarah found the mark at the end of Squirrel Prophet (strip of 13 Feb 2015). You can't vow to do something you've already done, and neither what she says in the 12 Oct strip, nor the one after, suggest that she thinks it'd be fulfilled. Remember, the key criterion for whether immortals can get away with stuff is if they can genuinely convince themselves that whatever they do is in line with their vows and immortal law.

[Yuki Akuma]

She made the vow well after that though. Vow was during Sister III pt 5 (strip of 12 Oct 2016), Sarah found the mark at the end of Squirrel Prophet (strip of 13 Feb 2015). You can't vow to do something you've already done, and neither what she says in the 12 Oct strip, nor the one after, suggest that she thinks it'd be fulfilled. Remember, the key criterion for whether immortals can get away with stuff is if they can genuinely convince themselves that whatever they do is in line with their vows and immortal law.

Do you really think Dan Shive is going to write a story where an emotionally traumatised little girl gets permanently mentally crippled because her friend got good at something too quickly?

If Sarah awakens, there will be some sort of loophole that means Hope didn't break her vow.

[Reboot]

Do you really think Dan Shive is going to write a story where an emotionally traumatised little girl gets permanently mentally crippled because her friend got good at something too quickly?

If Sarah awakens, there will be some sort of loophole that means Hope didn't break her vow.

Absolutely not, but I think that means it's going to happen after Hope makes contact with Sarah and does something which can be argued to satisfy the vow, rather than because of a "Pandora started the whole chain of events" loophole. The latter strikes me as a the Oracle trying to avoid Belkar stabbing him-level theory.

(Plus, Sarah's Awakening need not be in this arc - it could be another half-decade of real time away, long after Hope has got friendly with the main cast as Hope. And after she's done something or other that means the vow's intrusive thoughts problem won't trigger.)

[Errorname]

Absolutely not, but I think that means it's going to happen after Hope makes contact with Sarah and does something which can be argued to satisfy the vow, rather than because of a "Pandora started the whole chain of events" loophole. The latter strikes me as a the Oracle trying to avoid Belkar stabbing him-level theory.

Sure, but Pandora's absolutely been willing to run on theories of that caliber to justify why she's not breaking immortal laws.

[Anonymouswizard]

Sure, but Pandora's absolutely been willing to run on theories of that caliber to justify why she's not breaking immortal laws.

I think the timing of the vow scuppers her using it, but she'll probably be able to get say with meeting Sarah after her magic power hits 'able to awaken' but before it happens on it's own. Or, as I've suggested before, getting Adrian to teach and using that combined with her current lack of knowledge as a justification for not doing it in the originally intended way.

There's ways around it that rely on less flimsy logic, mostly because we don't know how much Sarah has been using her spell or how close to awakening she is.

Maybe her second spell will be the ability to become a man.

[Gez]

She vowed to help Sarah awaken her magic, using ethically-sound methods that she first discuss with her for explicit approval.

I figure that what it means will be more magic lessons, like those with Tedd, Ashley, and Kevin.

[Reboot]

On the current EGS:NP strip... I'm having trouble understanding why "use more magic" makes a difference. If the problem is that magic's "helping hand" is gone & Nanase doesn't have the brainpower to run two sets of actions at once without major problems, how does more magic (either directly or by trading off stuff elsewhere) let her access it after all?

She vowed to help Sarah awaken her magic, using ethically-sound methods that she first discuss with her for explicit approval.

I figure that what it means will be more magic lessons, like those with Tedd, Ashley, and Kevin.

That was probably Pandora's original plan ("apprentice magic user" and all), but since she's a baby immortal now and has "forgotten many things", Hope might not know enough to teach her.

[Radar]

On the current EGS:NP strip... I'm having trouble understanding why "use more magic" makes a difference. If the problem is that magic's "helping hand" is gone & Nanase doesn't have the brainpower to run two sets of actions at once without major problems, how does more magic (either directly or by trading off stuff elsewhere) let her access it after all?

It's... magic!

Seriously though, EGS magic creates loads of effects that - one might presume - require some sort of calculations to get the effect right. So you either have a rigid system that predefines things and those additional calculations are not needed, or you need to actively spend power to have magic deal with it. As I think about it right now, magic itself is in some sense a conscious being, so spending more mana to offload control burden from your brain makes more sense I guess.

[Gez]

Seriously though, EGS magic creates loads of effects that - one might presume - require some sort of calculations to get the effect right. So you either have a rigid system that predefines things and those additional calculations are not needed, or you need to actively spend power to have magic deal with it. As I think about it right now, magic itself is in some sense a conscious being, so spending more mana to offload control burden from your brain makes more sense I guess.

That's also consistent with magic wanting to be used, but not by too many people at once, and pulling the rug from under everyone's feet when it became too widely known. Magic itself must have limited processing power. And so when it was convinced that it was inevitable everyone would know anyway, magic shifted from a fully-automatic to fully-manual mode, and now getting the automatic treatment requires spending more of your own power in exchange.

[Radar]

That's also consistent with magic wanting to be used, but not by too many people at once, and pulling the rug from under everyone's feet when it became too widely known. Magic itself must have limited processing power. And so when it was convinced that it was inevitable everyone would know anyway, magic shifted from a fully-automatic to fully-manual mode, and now getting the automatic treatment requires spending more of your own power in exchange.

That makes a lot of sense. I wonder if Dan had the same idea about the "not-change".

[Anonymouswizard]

Do we have confirmation on if Edward, Germain, and other 'manual mode' casters even knew that magic was doing the calculations? I remember it coming across as something Edward hadn't really thought about.

Although considering we already know that the calculations can be offloaded onto tech (the transformation gun, although it seems to use preset values per form), so it's possible that the transformation watches will thematically come back as a more user-friendly but slower wand alternative. Probably as something a bit bigger than a watch though, transformation calculators?

Thankfully spell apps don't seem to be possible, although tools to load spells into a phone might be. I'm guessing that Arthur, Edward, or someone in a similar position is currently making deals as to what kind of spells are legal to sell.

[Fyraltari]

Germain

[Anonymouswizard]

Eye made ay speling mistahke, itt hapens.

[Reboot]

So, did anyone else think the gag in Saturday's NP was "Ashley thinks Nanase is hitting on her again" rather than "She didn't think Nanase was that strong" as today's NP stresses?

[tyckspoon]

So, did anyone else think the gag in Saturday's NP was "Ashley thinks Nanase is hitting on her again" rather than "She didn't think Nanase was that strong" as today's NP stresses?

Yeah, this is what it came across to me as well, especially as a continuation of Nanase's previously established trait of thinking things are 'cool' that other characters read as flirty or sexual - Nanase doesn't have a lot of visible musculature, so by striking that pose she mostly just flexed her breasts at Ashley instead of emphasizing her arms.

[Maat Mons]

It came off to me like Ashley was suddenly afraid of Nanase. I remember thinking, "Nanase's in good shape, but she's not in 'terrify people by flexing at them' shape. What gives Ashley?"

[Kish]

My thought was that Nanase flexing had Ashley super turned on.

[Lord Raziere]

Yeah, to me its seems like Ashley has a thing for strong women/people and was like "oh god if I say anything she'll get freaked out over how thirsty I am for her right now". on top of all the other demonstrated reasons for Ashley to be thirsty for Nanase in the last few comics.

[Fyraltari]

My thought was that Nanase flexing had Ashley super turned on.

That was my read too.

[Anonymouswizard]

My thought was that Nanase flexing had Ashley super turned on.

Put me down as another on this train, it didn't help that we know Ashley likes big boobs

[Radar]

Put me down as another on this train, it didn't help that we know Ashley likes big boobs

Aaalll Abooooard! Ha ha ha ha ha...
Basically Ashley is trying to hide how much she is in awe/into Nanase and Nanase feels she needs to impress Ashley and interprets the lack of outright enthusiasm as a sign she is not impressive enough.

[Reboot]

Meanwhile, in main comicland, we're clearly either very near or at the end of this scene with Hope & Justin (and one, uh, hopes she remembered to put different serial numbers on all the notes). And I'm curious where this is going to go, especially since there's apparently been some replotting of what's coming up.

Thus far in the arc, we've had a page of Sarah thinking about Pandora, Susan following up on her feelings from "Our Future" (and obsessively rechecking her mailbox), the Other Side Uryuoms causing/following up on "Parable" and the ripple effects of that, and the full introduction of Hope as Pandora's "refresh". We're definitely going to see the card game, presumably with Hope, Tedd & Sarah all playing (and Grace there). Presumably, we're going to get Hope at least checking in on Susan, though maybe not introducing herself to her (since she was invisibly stalking Diane when the latter collapsed, and ran away rather than reveal herself after taking her to the nurse. Not to mention nearly cacking herself when she thought Justin recognised her as Pandora). Are we even going to get the main characters finding out Hope≈Pandora this arc?

[Celestia]

I do hope we get another full game tournament like the last one. I really liked the parody aspect. Though, I'm not sure what more can be parodied. Maybe Dan will do a different game this time? There's plenty about Yugioh to riff on.

[Radar]

I do hope we get another full game tournament like the last one. I really liked the parody aspect. Though, I'm not sure what more can be parodied. Maybe Dan will do a different game this time? There's plenty about Yugioh to riff on.

To be honest it will be difficult to riff Yugioh on in any way that was not done by the very first Abridged Series. There are other possibilities though, or the tournament arc may focus more on the interactions between people.