Stupid

[Emperor Demonking]

Reading a thred on this board made me want to start a list. What things make you think the designers didn't think it through.

1) The famous two poles from a laadder trick.
2) When a flask with noting in wieghs more that one that does.
3) When a mythril chain shirt costs less tha the mithril is came from.

[Snadgeros]

4) Natural Spell
5) Polymorph spells

[Xefas]

6) Game Mechanics

[rollfrenzy]

Reading a thred on this board made me want to start a list. What things make you think the designers didn't think it through.

Things I don't think the designers really thought through?

everything found here?

[Inyssius Tor]

My bet: twenty posts before this turns into an angry and pointless argument about some stupid flaw in the system, preferably involving the Rule 0 fallacy, "nobody plays that way!", and the Straw DM.

7: Everything from Dirty Tricks and Campaign Smashers--oh, and Pun-Pun.

[Snadgeros]

7: Everything from Dirty Tricks and Campaign Smashers--oh, and Pun-Pun.

That's not stupidity, that's just an exploit and NO ONE could have seen Pun-Pun coming. Every game has minor glitches/exploits, but this thread is for stuff that is just inherently stupid or broken and they should've seen coming.

[reorith]

My bet: twenty posts before this turns into an angry and pointless argument about some stupid flaw in the system, preferably involving the Rule 0 fallacy, "nobody plays that way!", and the Straw DM.

7: Everything from Dirty Tricks and Campaign Smashers--oh, and Pun-Pun.

i can't wait twenty posts! what is the straw dm?

[Ne0]

8. The Forcecage Spell

[Keld Denar]

9) The Commoner Railgun and Other Silly Stories (TM)

Includes the shortstory "I Spontaniously Generate a Mountain of Quarterstaffs From the End of My Fingertips"

[Da Beast]

Allowing monsters summoned with gate to cast gate themselves (among other abuses).

[MeklorIlavator]

i can't wait twenty posts! what is the straw dm?

It's the hypothetical "perfect" Dm. When he/she/it runs a game, everyone has an equal turn in the spotlight, his house rules stop any exploits while also being completely and utterly fair, etc. ad nauseam.

Clearly, there is no one currently Dm-ing who can hold this ideal, and the use of this as a balancing factor in terms of game play isn't valid.

[Inyssius Tor]

That's not stupidity, that's just an exploit and NO ONE could have seen Pun-Pun coming. Every game has minor glitches/exploits, but this thread is for stuff that is just inherently stupid or broken and they should've seen coming.

True. I just wanted to get the exploits out of the way within the first five posts, so that people won't miss them--and repost them again and again--later on. Also, kudos to lussmanj for Number 9: I had completely forgotten about those .

[herrhauptmann]

Commoner railgun?
That's the one where as a free action you can pass an object to the guy standing shoulder to shoulder with you right? As a free action can accept an object from the guy shoulder to shoulder with you as well? So you can theoretically pass an object from one end of the continent to the other in one round?

I don't recognize the others though.

[Talanic]

Actually, the rules state (perhaps in errata) that any summoned creature is incapable of summoning other creatures with its spell-like abilities.

Summon

A creature with the summon ability can summon specific other creatures of its kind much as though casting a summon monster spell, but it usually has only a limited chance of success (as specified in the creature’s entry). Roll d%: On a failure, no creature answers the summons. Summoned creatures automatically return whence they came after 1 hour. A creature that has just been summoned cannot use its own summon ability for 1 hour. Most creatures with the ability to summon do not use it lightly, since it leaves them beholden to the summoned creature. In general, they use it only when necessary to save their own lives. An appropriate spell level is given for each summoning ability for purposes of Concentration checks and attempts to dispel the summoned creature. No experience points are awarded for summoned monsters.

Link: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm

[Dhavaer]

Actually, the rules state (perhaps in errata) that any summoned creature is incapable of summoning other creatures with its spell-like abilities.



Link: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm

Gate doesn't summon, though, it calls. Called creatures can summon or call other creatures.

[Kyeudo]

That's not stupidity, that's just an exploit and NO ONE could have seen Pun-Pun coming. Every game has minor glitches/exploits, but this thread is for stuff that is just inherently stupid or broken and they should've seen coming.

You mean that including an ability that essentialy gives any creature any ability ever written couldn't possibly have been seen as gamebreaking before being printed?

[Keld Denar]

Commoner railgun?
That's the one where as a free action you can pass an object to the guy standing shoulder to shoulder with you right? As a free action can accept an object from the guy shoulder to shoulder with you as well? So you can theoretically pass an object from one end of the continent to the other in one round?

I don't recognize the others though.

Go open your PHB to the skills section. Read the notes on crafting. Note that all of the time and money investments are multiples of the base item cost. Now go to the weapons table and look up either quarterstaff or club. Take special notes on the relevant base cost. Now go back to the section on crafting, and determine how long and how much it would take to craft such an item. Repeat until you have enough quarterstaffs.

But really...can you EVER have enough quarterstaffs?

[Jack Zander]

10) Hugging your friends to make your movement speed +50 or more.

[SpikeFightwicky]

11. The free action 'mount/dismount' horse relay.

12. MMII

[kamikasei]

But really...can you EVER have enough quarterstaffs?

At some point, surely, it'll hit the Chandrasekhar limit. Though there aren't rules for that...

What the... "Chandrasekhar" is in the Firefox dictionary?

[kamikasei]

13) Drowning to heal.

14) Beads of Karma (have they been errata'd yet?)

[EvilElitest]

11. The free action 'mount/dismount' horse relay.

12. MMII

how is MMII worst than any other?
from,
EE

[Swordguy]

15) People not playing the way that the designers felt D&D should be played - with a beatstick, a healbot, a skillmonkey, and a blaster.

[Sebastian]

16) Xp cost to balance spells and item creation.

17) Defensive Casting.

[F.L.]

Reading a thred on this board made me want to start a list. What things make you think the designers didn't think it through.

1) The famous two poles from a laadder trick.
2) When a flask with noting in wieghs more that one that does.
3) When a mythril chain shirt costs less tha the mithril is came from.

Armor shouldn't necessarily be entirely composed of metal. There's padding, straps, etc. So it should be less than it's weight in mithral. Doesn't stop the D&D economy from being FUBAR though.

[AKA_Bait]

18. Pricing of mundane items and the normal D&D economy writ large.

19. Giving clerics access to ANY divine spell and then adding a new divine spell or ten in EVERY friggin splatbook.

20. Not being explicit before the introductions of any new prestige classes that they are all totally optional and at the DM's discretion.

21. Items/spells/abilities that grant additional standard or full round actions.

[Kaelik]

Armor shouldn't necessarily be entirely composed of metal. There's padding, straps, etc. So it should be less than it's weight in mithral. Doesn't stop the D&D economy from being FUBAR though.

Costs less. As in, you hand me a hunk of metal, I forge it, attach the various straps to it, hand it back to you, and then pay you because I took something of value X and gave you something of value Y where Y<X.

[Snadgeros]

You mean that including an ability that essentialy gives any creature any ability ever written couldn't possibly have been seen as gamebreaking before being printed?

I was referring to Pun-Pun, not the other stuff. I don't know the other stuff so I'm not qualified to judge it. Pun-Pun, however, was unforseeable, and required the use of multiple books and a very complicated procedure. He's a mistake, sure, but an excusable one.

[Talanic]

Gate doesn't summon, though, it calls. Called creatures can summon or call other creatures.

Which creatures have Gate or Planar Ally as a spell-like ability? If they had that, then the infinite-summons problem becomes real. The first demon or devil gets called, but after that they can't call more, they have to summon. None of them that I'm aware of actually have the ability to call.

Basically, demons and devils have a percentage chance (except the most powerful, for whom it always works) to summon more demons, once per day for one hour. They can't summon more than that. Slaadi can't either, to my knowledge; one summons per day, total, is it--and the summoned allies disappear after an hour.

[tyckspoon]

Which creatures have Gate or Planar Ally as a spell-like ability? If they had that, then the infinite-summons problem becomes real. The first demon or devil gets called, but after that they can't call more, they have to summon. None of them that I'm aware of actually have the ability to call.

Basically, demons and devils have a percentage chance (except the most powerful, for whom it always works) to summon more demons, once per day for one hour. They can't summon more than that. Slaadi can't either, to my knowledge; one summons per day, total, is it--and the summoned allies disappear after an hour.

Titans have Gate as a spell-like 1/day. Solars cast as 20th level clerics, so they can prepare and cast Gate up to four times a day, although Gate is not on their 'standard prepared spell' list so you might have some trouble fetching up one who actually has it prepared. Not a problem if you can get the creature to stick around long enough to prep spells, but paying the solars for the xp cost of the calling function would be very expensive. They could also use their Wish spell-like to transport another creature. Those are the creatures typically mentioned for infini-Gates; any monster with Gate or Wish as a spell-like or high-level casting ability could also be used.