The Forge of Fury: Extended!

[yisopo]

I'm going to start "The Forge of Fury" adventure (from "Tales from the Yawning Portal") as DM. This is my first time DMing.

I would like to add a little twist at the end. After the defeat of the final boss (the black dragon), they will be at 5th level and the adventure would be over.

But, instead of ending the adventure immediatly, I want to have a time-skip of several months/years where the real final boss appears and wants to avenge the murder of the black dragon. Mechanically, after the time skip they will be some levels higher, like 8th/9th level.

So, I would like to find a free one-shot at 8th/9th level so I can add it at the end of "The Forge of Fury".

[Segev]

I am not sure what exactly you're looking for.

My first instinct is to just use Forge of Fury's map and put the new boss into it. Or have the new boss chase the party down to wherever they happen to be.

If you want a hidden extra floor beneath the Black
Lake level, there are a few parts of Dungeon of the Mad Mage that are tuned for the levels you're thinking of which you could adapt to be an extra level of Forge of Fury, instead.

If you did Sunless Citadel before Forge of Fury, it introduced the Gulthias Tree. Research tells me that Forge of Fury originally had some link to that quest line, back in 3e. Maybe a new Gulthias Tree grows in the Black Lake and they now must deal with greater blights and perhaps orcs made into vampire spawn or the wooden servitors from Sunless Citadel.

Tie Night scale into Ashardalon's history, somehow, and you could try reweaving that narrative.

[yisopo]

Hi Segev,

I cannot add another area in the Forge of Fury's dungeon because of the time skip of months/years (or maybe I can?).

But I think the location is not so important. I think I only need an epic/interesting encounter for four level-9 characters. Since it is my first time dming, I don't feel confident enough to build it myself.

[Derges]

Since it is my first time dming, I don't feel confident enough to build it myself.

I'd encourage every new DM to write their own material rather than use published stuff.
While published content may seem easier counter-intuitively I believe that it's more work. To properly run a published adventure you need to do a lot of prep. You'll need to re-read the source material multiple times before the session (and probably refer to it during) and you're bound to someone else's choices.

Running your own content requires a different sort of prep but you end up knowing the stuff you've created and feel much freer to change it and roll with what the group does.

This isn't to knock you down, but to encourage you to build your own confidence - you can do it.



I'd also think carefully about your time skip idea. It sounds great fun but it has two big potential issues:
If your players are new how will they cope with the massive increase of options dropped on their plate, it's likely to be a bit overwhelming. Secondly, unless your players have submitted detailed character plans how do you know what choices they're going to make in their future levels? It could quite easily cause a bit of a hump with attitudes of "I was going to multiclass at 6" or "I'd never prepare Cloudkill".

Both of these can be mitigated by the players building and (and therefore knowing) the high-level version ahead of time but that might ruin any surprise value.

[yisopo]

I'd encourage every new DM to write their own material rather than use published stuff. [...]
This isn't to knock you down, but to encourage you to build your own confidence - you can do it.

My main concern is the balance of the encounter. Do you think I can use this tool reliably? https://www.aidedd.org/dnd-encounter/index.php?l=1

I'd also think carefully about your time skip idea. It sounds great fun but it has two big potential issues:
If your players are new how will they cope with the massive increase of options dropped on their plate, it's likely to be a bit overwhelming.

This may be true. But jumping from 5 to 8 should not be overwhelming. In case, the jump can be limited even more, from 5 to 7. (From 5 to 9 yes, it is probably too much.)

Secondly, unless your players have submitted detailed character plans how do you know what choices they're going to make in their future levels? It could quite easily cause a bit of a hump with attitudes of "I was going to multiclass at 6" or "I'd never prepare Cloudkill".

I don't understand this point. The players believe the adventure will end at 5th level. But, surprise!, they will jump from 5th to 8th level for just one last combat.

[No brains]

How long of a one shot did you have planned after Forge of Fury? Do you want a different dragon to show up and attack a town where the PCs live, or do you want the party to take on a whole other dungeon?

If it's just a single revenge encounter, you can probably wing that yourself. All you need is a monster of around CR 12 or so to be a good mono-monster for a 9th level party. Maybe an Adult Black Dragon? Then you can just make a town map that has some houses that are approximately 20' squares. I recommend a more rural town with plenty of space to move between the houses so the dragon doesn't have a huge mobility advantage over the party. If you want this to be in a city with row houses, just be sure to include some easy way for PCs to get up to and off the rooftops, and think up some excuses for cover to be both on the rooftops and on the ground.

If you insist on having a larger story as an epilogue, maybe try Escape from Phlan, a short free adventure you can download from Dungeon Master's Guild. I haven't played it yet, but it is about a strong dragon being a jerk, so it could easily be adapted to avenging another dragon. You might want to consider tweaking the difficulty of its encounters to get to the pace you desire.

[Derges]

Most calculators will use the maths from the DMG which is fine but takes tuning to each group (based on optimisation, magic items and playstyle). Published modules can only do one of those as well so they're guessing almost as much. I'll check it when I've got time but I'm sure it's okay.

I don't understand this point. The players believe the adventure will end at 5th level. But, surprise!, they will jump from 5th to 8th level for just one last combat.

Because the players may well have a vision for what their character would be like at level 8 that doesn't match the options you select. It might be feats, spell selection or multiclassing but it's possible they may not like those choices being made for them.

You know your players better than me so it might not be an issue at all or they might have very 1 dimensional plans. Just a thing to be aware of.

[yisopo]

No brains, I think a a single revenge encounter should be perfect for me.

An adult black dragon would be good thematically, but too strong (I'm checking on aidedd.org/dnd-encounter) for four 8th-level heroes.

What do you think about a young green dragon (the husband of the one killed? just for variety...) with some minions in order to create a more tactical and varied combat? Which minions in case?

[yisopo]

Most calculators will use the maths from the DMG which is fine but takes tuning to each group (based on optimisation, magic items and playstyle). Published modules can only do one of those as well so they're guessing almost as much. I'll check it when I've got time but I'm sure it's okay.

Thank you. :-)

Because the players may well have a vision for what their character would be like at level 8 that doesn't match the options you select. It might be feats, spell selection or multiclassing but it's possible they may not like those choices being made for them.

I wouldn't choose for them. When they defeat the fake final boss I start to narrate the adventures they make in the next months... and after that they are attacked by the real final boss: "Please adjust your character sheet for level 8 for the last battle!".

[Segev]

I think you may be surprised at how a single CR12 monster goes down fast in the face of a full party of level 8 PCs. Even with legendary actions, action deficit kills. And big sacks of hp empty shockingly fast.

This isn't a scoffing rhetorical question, so please do not read it as dismissive: why do you want to do a time skip plus revenge fight with a monster they haven't seen before? What is it that attracts you to this idea? Why do you want to run it at higher level and after a time skip?

Part of what I struggle with in giving ideas is not grasping what your goal and purpose is. As an example: why not run another dungeon that levels them up to 8 by the end and then bring in the grudge match as the final boss?

Or even have the time skip be down time at level five, and then have them receive an invitation or other quest impetus to visit a dungeon constructed by the revenge-obsessed monster. He meant it to slay them for their crime; it actually levels them up to eight if they survive to reach the final boss chamber where he lurks to take his revenge personally.

[KorvinStarmast]

Hi Segev,

I cannot add another area in the Forge of Fury's dungeon because of the time skip of months/years (or maybe I can?).

But I think the location is not so important. I think I only need an epic/interesting encounter for four level-9 characters.

White Plume Mountain will work. Depending on how the party approaches that adventure, it can be brutal for 4 level 8 adventurers. I ran it, but the party was larger than 4 PCs.

Adult Black Dragon: a vengeful mother/father is a fitting very dangerous consequence of killing a young black dragon.

Minions: if you have Fizban's book, use the draconians. If not, use half dragons or all dragonborn NPCs.

Not sure what DM's guild or drivethroughrpg have, but there are bound to be some 9th level adventures available.

[No brains]

No brains, I think a a single revenge encounter should be perfect for me.

An adult black dragon would be good thematically, but too strong (I'm checking on aidedd.org/dnd-encounter) for four 8th-level heroes.

What do you think about a young green dragon (the husband of the one killed? just for variety...) with some minions in order to create a more tactical and varied combat? Which minions in case?

A part of this depends on your party's composition as well as how much of a challenge you want to give them.

Remember that a CR 8 creature is a medium encounter for an 8th level party. It should take a few resources to beat and might even give a scare if it's lucky, but otherwise an 8th level party can slam-dunk a lone CR 8 creature. You did say that you are running for some new players, so maybe if you play smart and let them make mistakes... maybe CR 8 can be scary enough.

Though if any of your players will have access to Polymorph, they will trash a CR 8 monster. Either they're going to render the monster helpless long enough to think up a more devious plan or they're going to turn into a mammoth/giant ape/ t rex and basically increase the functional size of their party by 1 heavy hitter.

If you want to give your party something scary that you think they can win, the green dragon husband sounds like a fine idea. Just make sure it doesn't set up any unrealistic expectations for your party.

Spoiler: Spoilers for Forge of Fury

Show

But also, if you want to try to 'take it easy' on the party, maybe don't play the black dragon the way Forge of Fury recommends. Giving a dragon +5 ac and many places to hide isn't really necessary to make that CR 7 dragon more challenging for a new 5th level party. Another good way to even the odds is to put a good spell pre-loaded into the Ring of Spell Storing they can get from the Roper fight. Holy Weapon is a good spell for a party of warriors, Water Breathing lets them take the fight directly to the dragon, and any Summon/ Conjure spell can give the PCs a good ally to even the odds.

[yisopo]

I think you may be surprised at how a single CR12 monster goes down fast in the face of a full party of level 8 PCs. Even with legendary actions, action deficit kills. And big sacks of hp empty shockingly fast.

Hi Segev. An adult black dragon is CR14 and the four player are not very experienced.This is why I think it can be too much to handle for them.

This isn't a scoffing rhetorical question, so please do not read it as dismissive: why do you want to do a time skip plus revenge fight with a monster they haven't seen before? What is it that attracts you to this idea? Why do you want to run it at higher level and after a time skip?

Part of what I struggle with in giving ideas is not grasping what your goal and purpose is. As an example: why not run another dungeon that levels them up to 8 by the end and then bring in the grudge match as the final boss?

Or even have the time skip be down time at level five, and then have them receive an invitation or other quest impetus to visit a dungeon constructed by the revenge-obsessed monster. He meant it to slay them for their crime; it actually levels them up to eight if they survive to reach the final boss chamber where he lurks to take his revenge personally.

Your question is legit. :-)
The reason, in essence, is we don't have little time. We need to finish the adventure within a certain time-limit. Originally they wanted a more long campaign, reaching higher levels, but we are not able to for time constrains. So I decide to do this surprise and they can get a taste of their characters at higher levels.

White Plume Mountain will work. Depending on how the party approaches that adventure, it can be brutal for 4 level 8 adventurers. I ran it, but the party was larger than 4 PCs.

Adult Black Dragon: a vengeful mother/father is a fitting very dangerous consequence of killing a young black dragon.

Minions: if you have Fizban's book, use the draconians. If not, use half dragons or all dragonborn NPCs.

Not sure what DM's guild or drivethroughrpg have, but there are bound to be some 9th level adventures available.

Hi KorvinStarmast, thank you for the suggestions. I will check draconians and half-dragons! But I still thinking a CR14 is a little too high for four level-8 players.

A part of this depends on your party's composition as well as how much of a challenge you want to give them.

Remember that a CR 8 creature is a medium encounter for an 8th level party. It should take a few resources to beat and might even give a scare if it's lucky, but otherwise an 8th level party can slam-dunk a lone CR 8 creature. You did say that you are running for some new players, so maybe if you play smart and let them make mistakes... maybe CR 8 can be scary enough.

Though if any of your players will have access to Polymorph, they will trash a CR 8 monster. Either they're going to render the monster helpless long enough to think up a more devious plan or they're going to turn into a mammoth/giant ape/ t rex and basically increase the functional size of their party by 1 heavy hitter.

If you want to give your party something scary that you think they can win, the green dragon husband sounds like a fine idea. Just make sure it doesn't set up any unrealistic expectations for your party.

Spoiler: Spoilers for Forge of Fury

Show

But also, if you want to try to 'take it easy' on the party, maybe don't play the black dragon the way Forge of Fury recommends. Giving a dragon +5 ac and many places to hide isn't really necessary to make that CR 7 dragon more challenging for a new 5th level party. Another good way to even the odds is to put a good spell pre-loaded into the Ring of Spell Storing they can get from the Roper fight. Holy Weapon is a good spell for a party of warriors, Water Breathing lets them take the fight directly to the dragon, and any Summon/ Conjure spell can give the PCs a good ally to even the odds.

I noted all your precious suggestions, thank you! I am still thinking a young green dragon with a couple of minions should be ideal for the final combat. (The idea of a Ring of Spell Storing is great!)