OOTS #1298 - The Discussion Thread

[Tubercular Ox]

That splash page also gives a useful comparandum for those of the forum who were trying to work out Calder's size—interesting to realize Bloodfeast is actually a bit bigger than the dragon.

Which means they would be the same size category, since each size category is supposed to be twice the previous. It's a conundrum, since Allosauruses are Huge, the oldest Huge Red Dragon is Mature Adult, and a Mature Adult's caster level is 9th. You need at least 15 to cast Polar Ray, so your choice is he's actually Gargantuan and Rich didn't care to draw it, or Rich made the odd choice of a Mature Adult dragon with 6 levels of caster classes stacked on top.

We don't see Calder drop Roy's sword, but since he dropped V, I will guess that he also dropped the sword.

I have a feeling Roy could pwok it back even were it held.

One more thought about Calder's domination of Sunny - since Rich doesn't go by strict D&D 3.5 rules the answer is "whatever advances the plot", but anyway; does Calder's domination require concentration?

Concentration requires a standard action each round to maintain, so without looking it up I'm guessing it doesn't.

Does Bloodfeast get re-Baleful Polymorphed outside of the beam - i.e., is it suppressed or ended?

It should be suppressed, like the magically conjured stone that Sunny passes through.

[H_H_F_F]

One more thought about Calder's domination of Sunny - since Rich doesn't go by strict D&D 3.5 rules the answer is "whatever advances the plot", but anyway; does Calder's domination require concentration? Because GLRKT! does not sound like the noise made by a person thinking clearly.

Also, I don't remember D&D 3.5 allosauri having a "bite and keep on biting without making attack rolls" feature, but that doesn't mean Bloodfeast the Extreminator can't do it with Belkar's coaching.

Not how concentration works in 3.5. If it required concentration, it'd mean Calder would have to spend each of his turns solely concentrating on the spell as a standard action. Since that's not been the case, it's not concentration.

[jackal59]

There's a guy from the funny pages we all know….

[Grendelkin]

It's like Roy said: Belkar is dangerously good at this adventuring biz when he tries, and he brought his - and Bloodfeast's - A-game to this fight! :D

I wouldn't count Calder out yet, but this should definitely cramp his style for a round or two. More if Bloodfeast manages to hang on and keeps doing damage.

[cosmicsodacan]

YES! Go Bloodfeast! All of us are rooting for you! We love you! As a wise bugbear once said: CHOMP CHOMP CHOMP! (Somebody really should look out for V, though. That ground is so not gonna feel good.)

[Lexible]

Also, I don't remember D&D 3.5 allosauri having a "bite and keep on biting without making attack rolls" feature, but that doesn't mean Bloodfeast the Extreminator can't do it with Belkar's coaching.

This is exactly what an 3.5e Allosaurus gets: A bite that functions as an Improved Grapple, and is what permits the raking attacks with the claws. The Giant might be taking some license with that, since the grappled creatures are supposed to be in a smaller size category than the Allosaurus (which is Huge and about 36 feet long; Calder is probably also Huge, since he looks older than Adult in age).

What I want to know, is how is Calder still flying! (I always assumed dragons' puny wings, relative to their body sizes, were assisted by magic in keeping them in the air).

[St Fan]

Curious though, doesn't putting the anti-magic ray on Calder makes him unable to continue dominating Sunny? At least unable to give new commands?

Nope. The domination spell is on Sunny and Sunny only. It would be suppressed if Sunny was in an anti-magic field, but it doesn't matter for it if Calder is. He's still the dominator that Sunny obeys.

The same way a summoner who then cast anti-magic shell on himself can still give orders to summoned creatures outside the shell. That's why, in some circumstances, silence can be more handy than anti-magic.

[enq]

Along with panels 5 and 6 here, this strip gets added to my "how did he have time to say all that" list.

Still awesome though.

[St Fan]

This is exactly what an 3.5e Allosaurus gets: A bite that functions as an Improved Grapple, and is what permits the raking attacks with the claws. The Giant might be taking some license with that, since the grappled creatures are supposed to be in a smaller size category than the Allosaurus (which is Huge and about 36 feet long; Calder is probably also Huge, since he looks older than Adult in age).

It has been noted a few times that Bloodfeast looks bigger than an allosaurus should be, so it's not impossible he'd be one size category larger thanks to the improving monsters rules. It wouldn't surprise me, indeed, that the Empire of Blood has a special allosaurus breeding program aimed at selecting the biggest and strongest individuals for their arena games and for war parties.

[ratfox]

Came to mention Chekhov, saw it mentioned twice already. Awaaaay!

[Gnoman]

Which means they would be the same size category, since each size category is supposed to be twice the previous. It's a conundrum, since Allosauruses are Huge, the oldest Huge Red Dragon is Mature Adult, and a Mature Adult's caster level is 9th. You need at least 15 to cast Polar Ray, so your choice is he's actually Gargantuan and Rich didn't care to draw it, or Rich made the odd choice of a Mature Adult dragon with 6 levels of caster classes stacked on top.

I can't find Allosaurus stats for 3.5e, but the T-rex entry allows for Gargantuan size with enough HD advancement. All we have to do to make sense of older that Mature Adult (which is kind of necessary for him to be a challenge for an Epic party) is assume that Bloodfeast is an extra-strong dino. Tarquin's sense of the dramatic would likely encourage him to make sure his showy arena dino was as big and tough as possible, particularly when he's the type to view "the attraction is eating the audience!" as bonus entertainment.

[Shining Wrath]

This is exactly what an 3.5e Allosaurus gets: A bite that functions as an Improved Grapple, and is what permits the raking attacks with the claws. The Giant might be taking some license with that, since the grappled creatures are supposed to be in a smaller size category than the Allosaurus (which is Huge and about 36 feet long; Calder is probably also Huge, since he looks older than Adult in age).

What I want to know, is how is Calder still flying! (I always assumed dragons' puny wings, relative to their body sizes, were assisted by magic in keeping them in the air).

Rich doesn't go by strict 3.5 rules, especially when the result is awesome-sauce. Which this result is.

Not how concentration works in 3.5. If it required concentration, it'd mean Calder would have to spend each of his turns solely concentrating on the spell as a standard action. Since that's not been the case, it's not concentration.

As noted, Rich doesn't go by strict 3.5 rules. If he wants to give Sunny a new "saving throw" which he succeeds at because Calder is being chomped, I shall not quibble.

Which means they would be the same size category, since each size category is supposed to be twice the previous. It's a conundrum, since Allosauruses are Huge, the oldest Huge Red Dragon is Mature Adult, and a Mature Adult's caster level is 9th. You need at least 15 to cast Polar Ray, so your choice is he's actually Gargantuan and Rich didn't care to draw it, or Rich made the odd choice of a Mature Adult dragon with 6 levels of caster classes stacked on top.



I have a feeling Roy could pwok it back even were it held.



Concentration requires a standard action each round to maintain, so without looking it up I'm guessing it doesn't.


It should be suppressed, like the magically conjured stone that Sunny passes through.

It would be sad if Bloodfeast were to be trapped inside Calder's room until he died of old age because he's too big to leave. I don't think that's going to happen.
I don't think Rich is going to do "concentration" exactly by 3.5 rules. If he wants Sunny to break free by sheer willpower (and thereby grow up a little), it can happen.
There's some things (like, e.g., Mage Hand) that work on unattended objects but not on ones held by a hostile creature. Calder evidently believed he could prevent pwoking.

[H_H_F_F]

If he wants to give Sunny a new "saving throw" which he succeeds at because Calder is being chomped, I shall not quibble.

I'd be surprised, but I wouldn't quibble either. I was answering a question about concentration per-the-rules, whatever happens in the conics happens.

Then again, I feel like people sometimes overblow Rich's rule-independence. He does what he needs to, but spells almost always work how they work by the rules.

[Kantaki]

I'm with Belkar. That was cool.

And incredibly funny.
Small harmless GLRK indeed.

Bloodfeast rocks.

[Errorname]

That is an extremely triumphant return for Bloodfeast.

[KorvinStarmast]

This is exactly what an 3.5e Allosaurus gets: A bite that functions as an Improved Grapple, and is what permits the raking attacks with the claws.

Ah, thank you, a bit different from 5e allosaurus.

What I want to know, is how is Calder still flying! (I always assumed dragons' puny wings, relative to their body sizes, were assisted by magic in keeping them in the air).

As I understand it, Dragons fly, it is an inherent feature of dragons. (And as ever, D&D isn't a physics simulator).

1. Calder's tactics are good.
2. Roy picking up Minrah is to me a better idea than Haley flying down, as she might get nicked by the anti magic beam.
3. V's gonna get a bruised bottom upon landing.
4. Bloodfeast's "Gyaaa!" was a great response to Belkar's asking if he's ready for the show.
5. When Belkar puts his mind to it, yes, he's pretty good at this adventuring stuff.
6. Minrah's "I'm not made of legs like you are" got a chuckle out of me.
7. Oops, Roy loses control of his sword, yet again.
8. I note that one of Haley's arrows bounced off of Calder's hide. Not sure what Armor Class she's dealing with.
9. CHOMP! Great splash panel.
10. At long last, Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator makes his terrifying return. (Ref 923 through 926, and 1239)

Great strip, thank you Giant.

[Debatra]

Just for me: In which comic did Belkar mention this situation earlier?

Back in 1239.

(Somebody really should look out for V, though. That ground is so not gonna feel good.)

3. V's gonna get a bruised bottom upon landing.

As soon as s/he's out of the beam, which the second-last panel shows doesn't reach the ground at its current angle, the Overland Flight spell will kick back in.

[KorvinStarmast]

As soon as s/he's out of the beam, which the second-last panel shows doesn't reach the ground at its current angle, the Overland Flight spell will kick back in.

Makes sense; I am not 3.5e wizard familiar enough to have that spell in ready memory.

[Debatra]

Makes sense; I am not 3.5e wizard familiar enough to have that spell in ready memory.

It doesn't really matter what specific spell it is. That's just how anti-magic works. It suppresses magic, instead of fully ending it.

Similarly, Bloodfeast needs to stay inside the beam as well.

[Unkillable_Cat]

I have been waiting for this moment for... *counts*... ten years, and it's finally here!

EAT GIANT LIZARD YOU... giant lizard?

[KorvinStarmast]

It doesn't really matter what specific spell it is. That's just how anti-magic works. It suppresses magic, instead of fully ending it.

Similarly, Bloodfeast needs to stay inside the beam as well.

If Bloodfeast pulls Calder down and Sunny follows Calder's torso down, as directed, V still gets a bruised bottom. If, on the other hand, Calder remains airborne, then the spell re activating will save V the bruises.

[Psyren]

Does Bloodfeast get re-Baleful Polymorphed outside of the beam - i.e., is it suppressed or ended?

Suppressed; the duration is permanent until dispelled. (Given Bloodfeast's size, dispelling it likely wouldn't be practical in their current environs.)

[Tubercular Ox]

This is exactly what an 3.5e Allosaurus gets: A bite that functions as an Improved Grapple, and is what permits the raking attacks with the claws. The Giant might be taking some license with that, since the grappled creatures are supposed to be in a smaller size category than the Allosaurus (which is Huge and about 36 feet long; Calder is probably also Huge, since he looks older than Adult in age).

Alternatively, allosaurus has the option to conduct the grapple normally ... In either case, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals bite damage and allows another rake attempt.

So Bloodfeast made a regular grapple check instead of the special one its improved grab gave it, but still got the benefits of Improved Grab after he connected.

What I want to know, is how is Calder still flying! (I always assumed dragons' puny wings, relative to their body sizes, were assisted by magic in keeping them in the air).

There is a Hover feat in Monster Manual II that allows this, and nearly every statted dragon in Draconomicon has it.

[SlashDash]

Actually now that I think of it - Sunny's beam should presumably cancel any magical defenses on the walls, right? So maybe Calder can just start smashing an exit path?

Or even possibly some of the walls are magic like in the tunnels? And Sunny's beam could open up a hole?

We know they teleported somewhere but where exactly?
Are there near the place with the doors?

Nope. The domination spell is on Sunny and Sunny only. It would be suppressed if Sunny was in an anti-magic field, but it doesn't matter for it if Calder is. He's still the dominator that Sunny obeys.

The same way a summoner who then cast anti-magic shell on himself can still give orders to summoned creatures outside the shell. That's why, in some circumstances, silence can be more handy than anti-magic.

Thanks. Too bad Durkon already spent his Silence spell on Greyview for the day.

Though I thought his commands to Sunny can be done telepathically?
Wasn't his previous bubbles more thought bubbles than speech bubbles?
I remember V having mental commands when they dominated the Kobold from the Linear Guild.

[Crimson Barrel]

I don't think I've ever been this early, but WHOOOOOO BLOODFEAST THE EXTREME-INATOR!!!

*CHOMP!*

[Mic_128]

I had a real good feeling when I saw Belkar's expression in panel 7. God damn, is Bloodfeast's return satisfying as all hell.

[drazen]

Can Bloodfeast straight up decapitate Calder? The faster the Order wins this, the more of Serini's begrudging respect they might earn.

[Tzardok]

What I want to know, is how is Calder still flying! (I always assumed dragons' puny wings, relative to their body sizes, were assisted by magic in keeping them in the air).

A dragon's flight is not called out as supernatural (except for those races that can fly despite having no wings at all). It's not any weirder than Roy's head being tougher than the stone its smashed into anyway.

[Doug Lampert]

Thanks. Too bad Durkon already spent his Silence spell on Greyview for the day.

How many BETTER second level spells for a melee cleric thinking he might fight a caster and of high enough level to have mass buffs are there?

Durkon may well have several silences prepared.

[Provengreil]

I totally called that.

Guess we'll find out soon if I was right about the other half of that prediction.