OOTS #1298 - The Discussion Thread

[Doug Lampert]

A dragon's flight is not called out as supernatural (except for those races that can fly despite having no wings at all). It's not any weirder than Roy's head being tougher than the stone its smashed into anyway.

I believe that dragon flight is one of the examples in the core rules of what an extraordinary ability is.

[doctor23]

Belkar, as usual is correct, that was freaking awesome. Best panel ever. Welcome back Bloodfeast

[King of Nowhere]

A dinosaur would be a negligible threat to an elder dragon.
but yes, it was a cool scene.

[The_Weirdo]

Shame on Belkar for throwing around small harmless glrkts! Won't someone please think of the glrkts?!

[Michaeler]

Shame on Belkar for throwing around small harmless glrkts! Won't someone please think of the glrkts?!

As a glrkt myself I have to ask that big harmful bipeds please refrain from thinking of us and concentrate on being less harmful instead.

[Grendelkin]

Can Bloodfeast straight up decapitate Calder? The faster the Order wins this, the more of Serini's begrudging respect they might earn.

Considering Calder's M.O. of dominating people to worship him, and his default response to anyone who does not start off groveling when they meet him, I would not mind seeing Bloodfeast rip his head off one little bit. I just hope red dragon meat won't be too spicy for him, nor Calder's flesh too gamey from age.

[Turrosh Mak]

Belkar casts FASTBALL SPECIAL (material component: T-Rex). It's super effective!

[gatemansgc]

I love the look of determination on his face right as he's thrown.

he couldn't wait to be full allosaurus again!

[VoxRationis]

I love Bloodfeast's response to Belkar's question. "Gyaaa!" He was so ready for this.

[Somniloquist]

Belkar casts FASTBALL SPECIAL (material component: T-Rex). It's super effective!

If I may mix systems a bit, dragon-type attacks are super-effective against dragon types.

[Going Hereward]

Belkar once again earning his keep as Best Damn Character in the Comic.

[Deuce]

A dinosaur would be a negligible threat to an elder dragon.
but yes, it was a cool scene.

Yes, but an already damaged dragon, with no ability to cast spells, still facing a high-level party at the same time, will be flanked as soon as he's on the ground, and I suspect Serini pack one hell of a Sneak Attack.

[Tass]

I have been waiting for this moment for... *counts*... ten years, and it's finally here!

EAT GIANT LIZARD YOU... giant lizard?

Bloodfeast is a dinosaur, not a lizard. (Where in the taxonomy dragons fall is more up in the air.)

[Provengreil]

Yes, but an already damaged dragon, with no ability to cast spells, still facing a high-level party at the same time, will be flanked as soon as he's on the ground, and I suspect Serini pack one hell of a Sneak Attack.

Also, this looks like a grapple initiation. Bloodfeast is clearly the same size category and probably has a similar strength score, so him dragging Calder down in this way isn't actually much of a stretch, particularly if BF has a grapple feat.

[Kantaki]

Bloodfeast is a dinosaur, not a lizard. (Where in the taxonomy dragons fall is more up in the air.)

Not enough limbs for a insect, too many limbs for a bird...
Maybe some kind of flying fish?

[Ruck]

We all had to know this was coming at some point, and yet, it was no less satisfying or metal for it.

[Ivrytwr]

Awe--wait for it -- some!
Definitely one of the best panels ever!

Thanks Giant.

[Errorname]

We all had to know this was coming at some point, and yet, it was no less satisfying or metal for it.

I mean, I knew Bloodfeast was getting turned back into an Allosaur, I didn't realize it was going to take the form of Belkar throwing the Allosaur at a Dragon.

[Endarire]

And the heavens shall tremble!

PS: I'm surprised I'm the first person to mention GIANT LIZARD FIGHT! It's the historic, natural kind vs. the supernatural kind!

[Provengreil]

Which means they would be the same size category, since each size category is supposed to be twice the previous. It's a conundrum, since Allosauruses are Huge, the oldest Huge Red Dragon is Mature Adult, and a Mature Adult's caster level is 9th. You need at least 15 to cast Polar Ray, so your choice is he's actually Gargantuan and Rich didn't care to draw it, or Rich made the odd choice of a Mature Adult dragon with 6 levels of caster classes stacked on top.

This fits with the theory that Calder has levels in mindbender that aren't counting as monster hit dice, and therefore don't count for size and breath weapon buffs.

[HalfTangible]

Welcome back to the allosaurus!

And what a comeback it was. Belkar continues to show he can be very effective when he's actually Being A Ranger

[Jay R]

Curious though, doesn't putting the anti-magic ray on Calder makes him unable to continue dominating Sunny? At least unable to give new commands?

It makes him unable to dominate anybody else, but the current spell is on Sunny, not Calder.

A dinosaur would be a negligible threat to an elder dragon...

... but perhaps a bit more so to a dragon who currently has no magic, and has other foes in the room.

Remember that the announced goal was to bring Calder down into melee range. A dinosaur with a strong grapple ought to be able to do that to a dragon who has no magic abilities at present.

[Morgaln]

Not enough limbs for a insect, too many limbs for a bird...
Maybe some kind of flying fish?

If you count a dragon's wings as limbs (like the bat or pterosaur wings they are modelled after), it has six limbs, just like an insect...

[Tubercular Ox]

This fits with the theory that Calder has levels in mindbender that aren't counting as monster hit dice, and therefore don't count for size and breath weapon buffs.

Evidence against Ocular Spell. Dragons don't get Epic feats until they're Old, and now we're looking at Mature Adult.

Although the theory that Bloodfeast has advanced HD and is actually Gargantuan is plausible, too.

EDIT: After fiddling with Gimp, Bloodfeast fits neatly as, "around eight times as big as V in the same panel," so I think "Bloodfeast is Gargantuan" is gonna be my official opinion for now.

[Kantaki]

If you count a dragon's wings as limbs (like the bat or pterosaur wings they are modelled after), it has six limbs, just like an insect...

Sure, but winged insects usually still have six legs, so I think that's kinda questionable. Also, I'm pretty sure dragons have a endoskeleton, which'd disqualify them from counting as insects anyway.
(In other words, I was counting the insects's wings as additional limbs. Not discounting dragon wings.)

[gatemansgc]

If I may mix systems a bit, dragon-type attacks are super-effective against dragon types.

i love you for this comment

[LookieLouE1707]

Calder could have eaten the pointy-eared monkey. I am impressed by his restraint. Too bad Roy failed his diplomacy check at the start.

[Shining Wrath]

Yes, but an already damaged dragon, with no ability to cast spells, still facing a high-level party at the same time, will be flanked as soon as he's on the ground, and I suspect Serini pack one hell of a Sneak Attack.

Let me count: Roy, Durkon, Elan, V, Serini, Haley, Minrah, Belkar, and Bloodfeast all get to attack. Roy goes from one throw to full attack; Durkon, Serini, Minrah, and Belkar are going from "target practice" to "full attack". If V can get out of the anti-magic zone that turns this into "high level wizard goes lethal on foe that cannot dodge". Otherwise it's just a brutal beat down and if Bloodfeast can just hang on for two or three rounds it will be over.

We all had to know this was coming at some point, and yet, it was no less satisfying or metal for it.

We all called it, but still, watching Bloodfeast take that smug condescension off Calder's face made it so damn sweet.

[Wanderer]

Bloodfeast is a dinosaur, not a lizard. (Where in the taxonomy dragons fall is more up in the air.)

So, giant flightless bird vs paleontological mistake caused by misidentification of ancient giant bird fossils?

[Malfarian]

it was long in the waiting but it was realy worth the wait.

yes it was!