OOTS #1298 - The Discussion Thread

[Dire Moose]

If I may digress, the standard 3.5 Allosaurus is actually rather oversized. An IRL Allosaurus fragilis, the most common species, is closer to Large on average. There is a Huge variety, but it is typically classified as a separate species, Allosaurus maximus or even a separate genus, Saurophaganax.

[AstralFire]

If I may digress, the standard 3.5 Allosaurus is actually rather oversized. An IRL Allosaurus fragilis, the most common species, is closer to Large on average. There is a Huge variety, but it is typically classified as a separate species, Allosaurus maximus or even a separate genus, Saurophaganax.

While that is (legitimately) interesting to note as a sidebar, Dungeons and Dragons is definitely not one of my top sources for dinosaur accuracy to begin with... XD

[Daywalker1983]

Rich doesn't go by strict 3.5 rules, especially when the result is awesome-sauce. Which this result is.



As noted, Rich doesn't go by strict 3.5 rules. If he wants to give Sunny a new "saving throw" which he succeeds at because Calder is being chomped, I shall not quibble.



It would be sad if Bloodfeast were to be trapped inside Calder's room until he died of old age because he's too big to leave. I don't think that's going to happen.
I don't think Rich is going to do "concentration" exactly by 3.5 rules. If he wants Sunny to break free by sheer willpower (and thereby grow up a little), it can happen.
There's some things (like, e.g., Mage Hand) that work on unattended objects but not on ones held by a hostile creature. Calder evidently believed he could prevent pwoking.

I think the pwoking is stymied by the AMF.

[MReav]

What Age Category is Calder? Because a Tyrannosaurus (which Bloodfeast is likely closest mechanically) is Huge while a Red Dragon that is Old or older are Gargantuan, and Bloodfeast appears to be about the same size if not slightly bigger than Calder (within the same size category).

[Vikenlugaid]

Ok that IS epic

[Daywalker1983]

Someone mentioned that we cant see the sword drop on the first page and I have a horrible feeling that the dragon's hand holding the sword being conveniently hidden along with the fact that Bloodfeast's eyes are wide now rather than angry signify something sinister for our dino friend...

Dinos always have these eyes, they have no facial expressions.

[bunsen_h]

The sword in Calder's left hand makes me a little nervous. Anyone else feel like the placement of the arm in the big panel (with Roy's sword hidden out of view) makes it look like Bloodfeast just took a greatsword to the heart? The dino's expression looks awfully surprised..

Calder is shown holding the sword by the blade, above the hilt. It appears to me that he's gripping it at around its center of mass. He might be able to manipulate it to change his grip, but that wouldn't be a trivial one-"handed" operation while fighting. (Imagine a human doing the equivalent with a dagger. Roll for DEX at a substantial penalty.) As it is, using it to stab or cut wouldn't permit anything like the usual damage from a greatsword, and would probably do more than a bit of self-harm. Using the HP system to describe damage wonkifies things, but "logically" it might impair Calder's ability to cast spells that involve somatic components.

[Provengreil]

Calder is shown holding the sword by the blade, above the hilt. It appears to me that he's gripping it at around its center of mass. He might be able to manipulate it to change his grip, but that wouldn't be a trivial one-"handed" operation while fighting. (Imagine a human doing the equivalent with a dagger. Roll for DEX at a substantial penalty.) As it is, using it to stab or cut wouldn't permit anything like the usual damage from a greatsword, and would probably do more than a bit of self-harm. Using the HP system to describe damage wonkifies things, but "logically" it might impair Calder's ability to cast spells that involve somatic components.

At the moment, I think Sunny is the bigger issue on the casting front. Other than that I agree with you. Calder stabbing Bloodfeast here just doesn't really fly, unless Rich wants to play it as a literal "he ran into my knife" scenario, and that's not what I think is happening. As is, it's actually pretty impressive he even grabbed it in the first place.

[Boring McReader]

This past month I have been missing Dr. McNinja more than usual. A thrown dinosaur mauling a dragon midair goes a long way toward filling that gap.

I don't want the series to end, but I'm eager to see how the story wraps up from here. Thanks to the Giant for bringing us all this way.

[Gnoman]

Why would we have to make sense of him being a challenge for an epic party? The Order is not an epic party (with the exception of Serini, who hasn'tdone anything).

The Order of The Stick is not Epic.


The Order Of The Scribble was, and Serini explicitly states they needed the whole team to take him down - meaning that he put up a serious fight against an epic-level party.

[Robots]

HELL YEAH! Bloodfeast has been unleashed!

Hopefully the big (formerly little) guy gets to stay this way for a little while longer... I hope he holds his own against Calder. Rooting for him!

[Tadpole]

I just want to say the art in this one is fantastic. The energy in the last panel especially is a marvel. Thanks for everything, Giant!

[Robots]

I just want to say the art in this one is fantastic. The energy in the last panel especially is a marvel. Thanks for everything, Giant!

IMO large, detailed animals (not the tiny ones like Blackwing or Mr. Scruffy) have benefited the most from OOTS' style upgrades.

That, and buildings.

(Thinking of the Godsmoot building...)

[axledawes]

At the moment, I think Sunny is the bigger issue on the casting front. Other than that I agree with you. Calder stabbing Bloodfeast here just doesn't really fly, unless Rich wants to play it as a literal "he ran into my knife" scenario, and that's not what I think is happening. As is, it's actually pretty impressive he even grabbed it in the first place.

"He ran into my knife" was where my thoughts were going.

Could be even worse if Bloodfeast drops off with the sword inside him, falls out of the anti-magic cone, and then shrinks back to being a lizard with the blade still in him.

Definitely something my D&D party would wind up experiencing!

[OvisCaedo]

I feel like an awkwardly handled medium-scaled greatsword with no magic enhancement bonuses in effect is probably not really any more threatening than Calder's natural attacks would be.

[DLcygnet]

Would have been and definitely IS an amazing splash panel!
Big smiles all around. Great plotting. Please don't let the dinosaur jump into the sword.
I want to see if he shrinks back down when Sunny blinks.

[Edward15]

Welp, guess we know who's getting the majority of the XP for this fight.

A clash between a dinosaur and a dragon is always awesome.

[wingnutx]

Oh hell yeah

[DougTheHead]

I love lizard-Bloodfeast's little "Gyaaa!" when Belkar asks if he's ready. Clearly he's been looking for an opportunity to get back in the game.

[Unoriginal]

Between his size relatively to Bloodfeast, the way his physical attacks are shown to be dangerous but not overwhelmingly dangerous for the OotS, and the way he talks about throwing spells at Varsuuvius, I think this page makes the "Calder isn't that old in term of age category, but has more Sorcerer levels than typical for a dragon his age/size" hypothesis/possibility the most likely one.

[WindStruck]

Three years! Three years since this was set up and now paid off. And it still slaps.

I recommend listening to the Jurassic Park theme with the T. rex roar while reading.

Or if only they could set up that one line. "Clever girl... *followed by panicked screaming*"

[Liquor Box]

Welp, guess we know who's getting the majority of the XP for this fight.

A clash between a dinosaur and a dragon is always awesome.

They all share, don't they?

[theinsulabot]

It seems Calder's spell actually didn't do much damage to V after all.

I notice Calder still has Roy's sword, I wonder if he can wield it against Bloodfeast.



Why would we have to make sense of him being a challenge for an epic party? The Order is not an epic party (with the exception of Serini, who hasn'tdone anything).

MM2 specifies that Allosaurus are huge. They are smaller dinosaurs than Tryanosaurus.

Everything else fits nicely with Calder being huge size. If he's a mature adult, he's a reasonable CR for the party (with its extra members), or he might be younger with levels in mindbender (explaining any spells he knows which a dragon wouldn't usually).

I think durkon burned his turn this round snap healing V right after the blast hit

[Psychronia]

Come now, Elan.

Belkar's been talking about and hoping for this for a while now. If he didn't set it up with a pre-dino tossing one-liner, it wouldn't have been consistent. This is a payoff to a lot of buildup.

[pendell]

Payoff! We have payoff! Three hundred odd strips but there we go!

And a lovely, lovely panel it is. I dunno how much time Rich spent on this strip, but it was effort well invested.

Storywise, Bloodfeast is one more loose end tied up. We still have , by my reckoning:

-- Belkar's death
-- The Three Fiends
-- The MITD's identity

to go, and then we can wrap this up for good!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Renegade Paladin]

One more thought about Calder's domination of Sunny - since Rich doesn't go by strict D&D 3.5 rules the answer is "whatever advances the plot", but anyway; does Calder's domination require concentration? Because GLRKT! does not sound like the noise made by a person thinking clearly.

Order of the Stick is based on the D&D 3.5 rules, in which dominate monster did not require concentration (in fact very few spells did).

[bunsen_h]

Welp, guess we know who's getting the majority of the XP for this fight.

A clash between a dinosaur and a dragon is always awesome.

Per RAW, Bloodfeast can't go up more than one level at a time, though.

[ZhonLord]

Payoff! We have payoff! Three hundred odd strips but there we go!

And a lovely, lovely panel it is. I dunno how much time Rich spent on this strip, but it was effort well invested.

Storywise, Bloodfeast is one more loose end tied up. We still have , by my reckoning:

-- Belkar's death
-- The Three Fiends
-- The MITD's identity

to go, and then we can wrap this up for good!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

You forgot "the planet inside the rift" and "the fate of all goblinkind".

[RichTF]

The Order of The Stick is not Epic.

The Order Of The Scribble was, and Serini explicitly states they needed the whole team to take him down - meaning that he put up a serious fight against an epic-level party.

They haven't always been epic though, so do we know if they were already maxed-out at the time they fought Calder? It could have been a long time before the whole rifts/gates/dungeons plotline, no?

[Alexandrite]

This is so early in the fight that it feels like the moment where Calder reveals they have ten more health bars. Still great for Bloodfeast though.