OOTS #1298 - The Discussion Thread

[Crusher]

I honestly don't think Rich sat down and thought "Hmmm if this is an ancient red dragon then they should be twice the size of Bloodfeast", I suspect the thought process was more along the lines of "big monster fights look cool when they're about the same size".

On the one hand, sure, Rich feels free to ignore or simply not look up D&D rules when he doesn't feel like it. On the other hand, we know he has meticulously planned some of these story beats years or even decades ahead of time.

*Spoiler* - I'm not The Giant, so I'm just guessing, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was already thinking about the beats of this specific fight all the way back in Blood Runs in the Family. Not the panel-by-panel details, but something like "The Allosaur 'bite into a grapple' is kinda neat, what if the party needed a way to bring the dragon down to the ground? That would be awesome, but it'd look dumb if the dragon is way bigger, so I'll make them about the same size."

[arimareiji]

When Bloodfeast was first polymorphed he had horns going through him, he wasn't bissected then and he isn't going to be bissected now.

Thank you -- I just thought it was excessively implausible, but knowing there's also precedent is even better. (^_~)

_{Edit, to add:}

On the one hand, sure, Rich feels free to ignore or simply not look up D&D rules when he doesn't feel like it. On the other hand, we know he has meticulously planned some of these story beats years or even decades ahead of time.

*Spoiler* - I'm not The Giant, so I'm just guessing, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was already thinking about the beats of this specific fight all the way back in Blood Runs in the Family. Not the panel-by-panel details, but something like "The Allosaur 'bite into a grapple' is kinda neat, what if the party needed a way to bring the dragon down to the ground? That would be awesome, but it'd look dumb if the dragon is way bigger, so I'll make them about the same size."

The Giant's planning reminds me of a scene decades ago from a favorite author -- one of the group has the Warstone (ring), which flames to life with the power to bind/summon that which will be needed. Often well beforehand, so that it seems nonsensical or even horrible to the wielder who doesn't know why. In the last example of the series, it tries to force her to summon a giant crystal dragon away from the ancestral home of the people it protects, and she refuses.

Guess what monster shows up in the final battle between Darkness and Light, with no countermatch (thus no evident way to keep it from simply burning the army of Light to death from the air) because of her refusal.

[gbaji]

I feel like an awkwardly handled medium-scaled greatsword with no magic enhancement bonuses in effect is probably not really any more threatening than Calder's natural attacks would be.

It's been commented on before, but I clicked the quote button so...

In an AMF the greatsword does bog standard greatsword damage. Calder's claws naturally do the same base damage (or more) already, and he's proficient in their use. Also, I might argue against strength damage if holding an improvised weapon in an awkward manner like that as well (so likely less damage than he'd just do using his claws like normal). That doesn't preclude Rich having it stick into Bloodfeast anyway, because it's cool, but realistically that's not going to do a whole lot of damage.

Death ray? Since Sunny isn't a stock beholder, we can't be sure that he's got that. Beyond that, I am not sure how various editions handle the nuances for domination differently, but would that not cause Sunny to get another save versus domination? I think that Calder knows the limitations of his own powers.

Several comments made about the suggestion/dominate/whatever (not just yours). First. My assumption is that Calder can't actually use the ability while in the AMF, but can continue to issue commands to someone he's already dominated. And also, I'm assuming he probably can't issue mental commands while in the AMF, so having his throat constricted will be an issue for him.

As you say, he presumably knows how his own abilities work, and having Sunny point the AMF at him would be a potentially terminally dumb move if he didn't know that he could tell Sunny to change targets later while inside the AMF.

Additionally, I made note while reading that Calder used some very specific wording. He told Sunny to point the AMF at him, knowing that this would put those near him in the AMF along its cone effect inside the area as well. He very specifically did not say "point your eye at the wizard". I don't think that wording was accidental. Sunny isn't going to get a new save against pointing his powerful anti-magic eyeball at the evil red dragon. He will get one if he's told to point it at his friends and allies. Also, it effectively allows Calder to control where the AMF goes by simply moving relative to Sunny. So... very clever and deliberate instructions by Calder, and very good writing on Rich's part to include that little detail.

Agree on the "I don't think Sunny has a death ray". As mentioned previously, Sunny has desintigrate, which he seems to be hesitant to use on living beings. Agree that Calder is very much aware of what sorts of command he can safely issue to maximize the odds that he retains control of Sunny.

+1. What Calder is up against is the action economy.

Yeah. Which is kinda typical for Dragon fights. It's why "bring him to the ground" (or find a way to get into melee range in general) is often the best tactic against dragons (well, best available to most adventuring groups anyway).

Dragons do get a boatload of melee attacks though, so that's not always super easy. But yes, at a certain level (which, of course, varries based on how powerful the dragon is), a group of adventurer's whaling on the dragon will just plain out damage him, and defeat becomes inevitable. Dragons are very very effective just kinda landing in amongst crowds of "normal" level opponents, or even more powerful opponents if they've been damaged (and survived) their breath attack. But against a high enough level group, they must stay out of melee range.

As usual, Roy's making good tactical decisions for the team.


And perhaps less usually, Belkar is right there on the same page! Then again, Belkar's been itching to do this for like... forever, so this is more of a case of a broken clock being accurate twice a day.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Headcanon: Bloodfeast isn't trying to hurt Calder, he's just freaking out from being thrown and grabbing onto the most solid thing in front of him.

Wow wow wow, that last big panel has instantly become one of my all-time favorites. It's gorgeous and so, so epic.

I like the one before it better, but it [I]is/I] pretty fun when someone gets under Belkar's skin.

A dinosaur would be a negligible threat to an elder dragon.

You don't need to be a rogue to sneak attack.

While that is (legitimately) interesting to note as a sidebar, Dungeons and Dragons is definitely not one of my top sources for dinosaur accuracy to begin with... XD

Remember Tarquin's brontosaurus?

If that scene (or a facsimile) isn't the cover of this last book, it will be a great injustice.

I, um.
I think there might be a bigger conflict in the.
In the last book of the entire series.
Just a hunch.

It never ceases to bemuse me how much of the reaction threads for this comic are people picking apart the hypothetical game mechanics of each enemy and new character, as if they assume Rich is still meticulously following the 3.5 rules despite years of playing loose with them since the comic transitioned to being about the story more than making fun of weird D&D mechanics.

You're right, but overlooking a crucial piece of information:

Numbers are fun.

I call this section "At least I'm kinda using my biology degree".

Not enough limbs for a insect, too many limbs for a bird...
Maybe some kind of flying fish?

There's more to taxonomy than number of limbs, Kantaki.

These days, taxonomy is mostly cladistic. That is to say, birds are birds because they're all descended from a shared common ancestor whose descendants are all birds. But that doesn't work in a fantasy world young enough that a black dragon's family tree only includes a quarter of all black dragons.

If you count a dragon's wings as limbs (like the bat or pterosaur wings they are modelled after), it has six limbs, just like an insect...

Insect wings aren't limbs. There are a few theories on how insect wings derived, but none of them assume wings are homologous with legs (or any appendage that grows the same way, e.g. antennae or mouthparts).

So, giant flightless bird vs paleontological mistake caused by misidentification of ancient giant bird fossils?

All birds are dinosaurs, not all dinosaurs are birds. That's like calling a wolf a giant rodent.

[bunsen_h]

You can fly and carry a light load. For sure.
You can maybe fly at reduced speed with a medium or heavy load. It was vague wording.

The only other rule I remember about flying in 3.5 is that you can't wear medium or heavy barding and serve as a mount.
And it's weird cause the barding would be no were near a light load for the mount. full plate is 50Lbs I think so 100lbs for a large and 250 for huge then 500 for huge and 1000 for large.

That's for the Fly spell. I'm not convinced that the rules carry over directly. For example, it doesn't make a great deal of sense for the "quadruped bonus" for carrying heavy loads to carry over to the load capacity for a flier.

[Aedilred]

Headcanon: Bloodfeast isn't trying to hurt Calder, he's just freaking out from being thrown and grabbing onto the most solid thing in front of him.

The expression on his face while he's being thrown would suggest otherwise.

In an AMF the greatsword does bog standard greatsword damage. Calder's claws naturally do the same base damage (or more) already, and he's proficient in their use. Also, I might argue against strength damage if holding an improvised weapon in an awkward manner like that as well (so likely less damage than he'd just do using his claws like normal). That doesn't preclude Rich having it stick into Bloodfeast anyway, because it's cool, but realistically that's not going to do a whole lot of damage.

Would it really be cool? It feels like it'd undercut the dramatic moment. Obviously there's still space here for Calder to fight back and we shouldn't assume that this is the end of the fight, but having Bloodfeast's big epic return to form (literally) interrupted by impaling himself on Roy's greatsword feels a bit like having stuff happen just for the sake of it.

[hamishspence]

That's for the Fly spell. I'm not convinced that the rules carry over directly. For example, it doesn't make a great deal of sense for the "quadruped bonus" for carrying heavy loads to carry over to the load capacity for a flier.

There's plenty of fliers with "quadruped-grade carrying capacity" even if it shouldn't make sense. Sometimes even creatures that are technically bipedal get quadruped-level carrying capacity as flyers.


Take the giant eagle- a Str 18 Large creature:


https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/eagleGiant.htm


Light load - 300 pounds.


According to this table, Large quadrupeds get 3x the carrying capacity of Medium bipeds:


https://www.d20srd.org/srd/carryingC...mbrancebyArmor


so - with a Medium Str 18 biped carrying 100 pounds as a light load, this indicates that the Giant Eagle has quadruped-grade carrying power.

[gbaji]

Would it really be cool? It feels like it'd undercut the dramatic moment. Obviously there's still space here for Calder to fight back and we shouldn't assume that this is the end of the fight, but having Bloodfeast's big epic return to form (literally) interrupted by impaling himself on Roy's greatsword feels a bit like having stuff happen just for the sake of it.

I'm sure Rich could make it cool, if he wanted to. Calder and Bloodfeast struggle while grappled for a few panels (or even pages) while the rest of the Order gets positioned, maybe gets Minra into position to cast on Sunny, etc. Then Calder says something clever like "Ah, you are a powerful beast, but I have intelligence and can make use of tools if I choose", followed by him making a big show of stabbling Bloodfeat with the greatsword (still in his claw), and Bloodfeast reacting by letting go long enough for Calder to escape his grasp and fly up a bit, causing Bloodfeast to fall out of the AMF and revert back to a lizard.

If it's used at all, it'll be less about damage done, and more about shock effect/whatever to change things a bit. Doesn't have to make sense from a rule pov, but makes for a dramatic use and effect in the scene, so it works.

I agree that it will not be "We cut to the next panel. Bloodfeast falls away from Calder, and we see Roy's greatsword sticking out of his chest, where he impaled himself on it. Queue Belkar screaming 'nooo. not Bloodfeast! He's too cool to die!'". I mean, I could see some writers doing that, but the set up just isn't right for it here. This scene is about turning the tables on Calder in a cool/interesting way and giving the Order breathing room to plan their attack.

I also don't think the scene will just be Bloodfeast holding on and biting down on Calder's neck until he dies, either. For much the same reason. This is a huge fight with a dragon. It's going to have a few twists and turns in it.

[Shining Wrath]

We see V falling away from Calder and Bloodfeast. I think that implies that Calder is not falling yet. Of course, it may just be a cool splash panel. OTOH, Belkar said he was going to bring Calder down to the ground by throwing Bloodfeast. OTO,OH, Belkar is not smart enough to know how much weight a dragon can carry and still fly in units of allosauri.

If Calder can remain airborne he is going to focus all the attacks an angry dragon can make on Bloodfeast. I predict Bloodfeast can't take too much of that before letting go. He may be about the same size but he doesn't have a dragon's multiple attacks, AC, or HP.

If Calder comes down to ground level this is going to be a beat-down.

[Walter Lawson]

Called it :P

Belkar took both pets up (when v lifts him up)
We haven't seen the lizard at all during the fight, what would hapen if it runs of into sunny's (main) sight?
There is a risk it could be charmed/dominated by Calder but if it would happen near the end of the battle, a surprise bite could turn the tide of battle? a nice crit bite attack to the neck?

Nice work Rich!

[Sebastian]

What I want to know, is how is Calder still flying! (I always assumed dragons' puny wings, relative to their body sizes, were assisted by magic in keeping them in the air).

It is some time from when I dealt with 3.5 seriously but If I remember correctly while dragon are too large to fly without magic being involved it is not considered "magic" as spells are. I don't remember if they are considered 'supernatural' or just hand waved, but imagine it as golems or vampires. They exist literally because of magic, but a golem doesn't turn into a pile of raw materials if it enters into an antimagic field, and a vampire don't turn into a corpse. In the same way, a dragon can still fly, even if it makes little sense (see also the fight between Varsavius and that black dragon on the island. She cast Antimagic Shell and still could fly)

[Zancloufer]

So something that hasn't been mentioned yet; Allosaurus is a Monster in MM2 and it's a 10 HD Huge animal by default. There are advancement rules and the Allosaurus can be "advanced " to Gargantuan by default at HD 21+. Bloodfeast also looks to be around 30~40ft in most scenes long putting him right on that size boarder. 21 HD Gargantuan Dinosaur seems kind of crazy, but its only a CR 10~11 creature by RAW and Tarquin did mention he had a dinosaur training program to make more powerful monsters.

Also Caldar is a Dragon with 8th level spells and looks OLD. Whats more likely? A dragon looking too old for their actual age with a pile of sorcerer levels tacked on, or a specially bred and trained dinosaur being more dangerous than it's stat floor?

Finally if we want to be really geeky here; The default Allosaurus would have to roll a 20 (With bite, let alone secondary attacks) to hit the base Mature Adult Red Dragon. Our level 21 Dino would only need like 16 to hit an Ancient Red Dragon. Dino damage also scales faster than dragon HP due to crossing a size threshold. So Weirdly enough the advanced Allosaurus does better vs an older dragon that the base one against a younger.

[Jay R]

I'm sure Rich could make it cool, if he wanted to.

Sure. But this is Rich; he can make anything cool. He could make taking a coffee break cool, if he wanted to.

[Unoriginal]

So something that hasn't been mentioned yet; Allosaurus is a Monster in MM2 and it's a 10 HD Huge animal by default. There are advancement rules and the Allosaurus can be "advanced " to Gargantuan by default at HD 21+. Bloodfeast also looks to be around 30~40ft in most scenes long putting him right on that size boarder. 21 HD Gargantuan Dinosaur seems kind of crazy, but its only a CR 10~11 creature by RAW and Tarquin did mention he had a dinosaur training program to make more powerful monsters.

Also Caldar is a Dragon with 8th level spells and looks OLD. Whats more likely? A dragon looking too old for their actual age with a pile of sorcerer levels tacked on, or a specially bred and trained dinosaur being more dangerous than it's stat floor?

Finally if we want to be really geeky here; The default Allosaurus would have to roll a 20 (With bite, let alone secondary attacks) to hit the base Mature Adult Red Dragon. Our level 21 Dino would only need like 16 to hit an Ancient Red Dragon. Dino damage also scales faster than dragon HP due to crossing a size threshold. So Weirdly enough the advanced Allosaurus does better vs an older dragon that the base one against a younger.

IMO Calder doesn't look that old, based on the size and the damage his attacks leave.

He could make taking a coffee break cool, if he wanted to.

He did at least once.

FREEDOM!

Based on his comment that he could just stand here and hurl spells at Varsuuvius even with his mental domination spells being out of the equation, if that didn't leave him vulnerable to the other combatants, it seems much more likely to me he is a Mature Adult Red Dragon with additional Sorcerer levels.

[Mic_128]

The expression on his face while he's being thrown would suggest otherwise.



Would it really be cool? It feels like it'd undercut the dramatic moment. Obviously there's still space here for Calder to fight back and we shouldn't assume that this is the end of the fight, but having Bloodfeast's big epic return to form (literally) interrupted by impaling himself on Roy's greatsword feels a bit like having stuff happen just for the sake of it.

I was just thinking that it'd be cool if Belkar and Blood feast have fun with disengaging, shrinking, then being thrown out again to grow and attack a couple more times.

Although that lead me to imagine Caldor eating teeny blood feast to stop it, which lead me to wonder - if Caldor did eat little Blood feast and had the anti magic ray put on him, would Blood feast be blocked, or would we have a second dragon explode from the inside out?

[The MunchKING]

I was just thinking that it'd be cool if Belkar and Blood feast have fun with disengaging, shrinking, then being thrown out again to grow and attack a couple more times.

Although that lead me to imagine Caldor eating teeny blood feast to stop it, which lead me to wonder - if Caldor did eat little Blood feast and had the anti magic ray put on him, would Blood feast be blocked, or would we have a second dragon explode from the inside out?

I don't think the Antimagic ray can penetrate to hit Caldar's stomach.

[AvangionQ]

What's the maximum flying weight of a red dragon? The T-Rex is adding somewhere between 11,000 and 16,000 pounds. My guess for first panel of next chapter: both of them are coming crashing down. 🐲🦖

[Peelee]

The T-Rex

Allosaurus.

[Quizatzhaderac]

What I want to know, is how is Calder still flying! (I always assumed dragons' puny wings, relative to their body sizes, were assisted by magic in keeping them in the air).

We don't know that he is, we just know that has been a single instant (a.k.a frame) where Bloodfeast is grappling Calder before they hit the ground.

Bloodfeast is a dinosaur, not a lizard.

Dinosaur literally means "dire lizard"

Does Bloodfeast revert to being a wild untamed dinosaur in the anti-magic field? If so it's a good thing he probably actually likes Belkar. And we know he really likes Mr. Scruffy.

As far as we know, Bloodfeast has never been a wild animal (we was tame when Belkar turned him), so I don't think we need to worry about him becoming one due to anti-magic.

Best.

Album cover.

Ever.

I'm slightly upset at Elan for quibbling rather than playing a sweet metal riff.

Oh absolutely, except dragon DR is DR/magic which was already doing diddly squat against the Order’s attacks; aside from Bloodfeast’s teeth and claws not a single weapon of theirs is incapable of completely ignoring that DR even without the AMF. Meanwhile, Calder’s obscenely high AC stays completely intact. Remember those frost giants last book that the Order demolished without too much issue? Without any magical bonuses I don’t think anyone outside Roy can hit them.

They have an AC of 21; the base attack bonuses alone should be enough

I don't think the Antimagic ray can penetrate to hit Caldar's stomach.

I'm pretty sure it's a conical field affects space itself and doesn't need to "pernitrate" the dragon anymore that it needs to penetrate empty air.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Dinosaur literally means "dire lizard"

And "comic" literally means "revel," but that doesn't mean OotS is a rave.

Or perhaps more relevantly for a taxonomy claim, carnivoran literally means carnivore, but the clade includes plenty of omnivores, some of which eat far more plants than meat. And then there are the giant and red pandas, both carnivorans, both herbivorous.

They have an AC of 21; the base attack bonuses alone should be enough

Red dragons have an AC of 21 in their late teens and early 20's. Calder probably isn't a juvenile.

I'm pretty sure it's a conical field affects space itself and doesn't need to "pernitrate" the dragon anymore that it needs to penetrate empty air.

Pretty much all spells require line of effect, conical or otherwise. They can be blocked by certain kinds of matter. That's why Sunny's contact lens blocked the antimagic.

Sure. But this is Rich; he can make anything cool. He could make taking a coffee break cool, if he wanted to.

I'm not a coffee drinker, but from what I hear, a cool coffee would be unpleasant to drink.

[Peelee]

Dinosaur literally means "dire lizard"

BRB gonna go name my cat "Dog" so he can start barking.

[danielxcutter]

He could be a mature adult, which have AC 32. I don’t think anyone besides Roy can hit that after their first attack without a nat 20, without magical bonuses.

[urbanwolf]

It never ceases to bemuse me how much of the reaction threads for this comic are people picking apart the hypothetical game mechanics of each enemy and new character, as if they assume Rich is still meticulously following the 3.5 rules despite years of playing loose with them since the comic transitioned to being about the story more than making fun of weird D&D mechanics.

I honestly don't think Rich sat down and thought "Hmmm if this is an ancient red dragon then they should be twice the size of Bloodfeast", I suspect the thought process was more along the lines of "big monster fights look cool when they're about the same size". Similarly, I think the frosty eye beams were more of a 'it looks cool when he casts with his eyes' than him pulling up the obscure epic feat ocular spell.

As far as I'm aware, there's no specific mechanic that was ever written to allow red dragons to remove their vulnerability to cold damage, or allow a dragon to dominate someone from over a hundred feet away that they can't even see, while in some sort of magical permanent sleep paralysis state that also grants telepathy. Those are just things that are there as part of the story, with powerful magic, much like the Cloister spell.

Like, I get it, the comic is based on 3.5e mechanics at it's core, but not everything has to be meticulously statted out and assigned a level and spell list. The dragon just has the magic he needs to be the monster he needs to be, he doesn't have to have levels in some 'Mindbender' class or have to be a specific size to have spells of a high level, despite Seriri saying he's 'a bit of a mindbender'. The black dragon from earlier in the comic had magic well beyond what black dragons normally have, for instance, and that was waved away by her commenting that she's 'better at magic than most of her kin'.

I can not speak for other players, but for me it is a fun metal exercise. It is also a way to keep the rules in mind as I plan a new campaign. Probably not in 3.5 but a lot of the rules are sort of timeless anyways. I knew the giant would never let the rules get in the way of the story, and as a forever D/GM the rules barley matter for the game. Well at least until they do.

I don't think you meant for what you said to come off as a put down; it is most likely chalked up to my troubles with the English language, but what you said hurt my feelings. Like we are wasting our time with our fun little game. Like when people tease me for still playing Pokémon or even playing dungeons and dragons. It reminds me of the Simpsons where Marge calls Liza chucky with out thinking or meaning anything malice by it, but it gets into the head and eats away.

[gatorized]

As far as I'm aware, there's no specific mechanic that was ever written to allow red dragons to remove their vulnerability to cold damage,

He could just cast protection from energy. Also, Rich is the DM, so whatever he puts in the comic is by the book, regardless. Rule zero is in the book.

You can fly and carry a light load. For sure.
You can maybe fly at reduced speed with a medium or heavy load. It was vague wording.

The only other rule I remember about flying in 3.5 is that you can't wear medium or heavy barding and serve as a mount.
And it's weird cause the barding would be no were near a light load for the mount. full plate is 50Lbs I think so 100lbs for a large and 250 for huge then 500 for huge and 1000 for large.

The subject can fly at a speed of 60 feet (or 40 feet if it wears medium or heavy armor, or if it carries a medium or heavy load). It can ascend at half speed and descend at double speed, and its maneuverability is good. Using a fly spell requires only as much concentration as walking, so the subject can attack or cast spells normally. The subject of a fly spell can charge but not run, and it cannot carry aloft more weight than its maximum load, plus any armor it wears.

Should the spell duration expire while the subject is still aloft, the magic fails slowly. The subject floats downward 60 feet per round for 1d6 rounds. If it reaches the ground in that amount of time, it lands safely. If not, it falls the rest of the distance, taking 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet of fall. Since dispelling a spell effectively ends it, the subject also descends in this way if the fly spell is dispelled, but not if it is negated by an antimagic field.

I don't understand why people talk about the rules text as if it's some sort of lost knowledge that only the ancients understood. You can just look it up.

[No good @ names]

(Airspeed velocity of an unladen dragon, yada yada.)

What's the maximum flying weight of a red dragon? The T-Rex is adding somewhere between 11,000 and 16,000 pounds. My guess for first panel of next chapter: both of them are coming crashing down. 🐲🦖

Do rockets exist in Stickverse? If so, the answer to maximum payload is the same as in Kerbal - infinite, just keep adding moar boosters!

Dinosaur literally means "dire lizard"

That’s seems a better name for DnD monsters anyway.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm not a coffee drinker, but from what I hear, a cool coffee would be unpleasant to drink.

There are people who pay extra for iced coffee, and I've had plenty of coffee over the years I've drunk coffee that had cooled...but in general, it's better hot/warm.

[Reltzik]

The saga of Belkar's quest to unleash Bloodfeast reminds me of that one time I had this really cool strategy (read: wholly impractical example of gamer insanity) that I kept wanting to make work but the DM kept handing me situations that were just a little bit off from what I needed for it.

And that other time... and that other one... and... look, I've been gaming for 30 years now, I'm probably forgetting more than I'm remembering.

At least Belkar actually managed to make his dream strategy work.

[gatorized]

If it's an old red dragon, it's gargantuan and has 35 strength. By the table, that should give it somewhere around 1000 lbs carrying capacity, x8 for gargantuan, so 8,000 lbs medium load. Heavy load works out to ~14,400 lbs. The weight of a T-rex in the rules is given as 6 tons, or 12,000 lbs. So it should have its fly speed reduced, but should be able to stay aloft. Of course the DM might call for a check to see if it stops maintaining flight due to the attack.

Obviously, these numbers are all based on the assumption that it has the Old age category, they'll adjust up or down if that's wrong.

[Liquor Box]

I wonder if the point isn't that the dragon has the sword, but that Roy doesn't have it.

So something that hasn't been mentioned yet; Allosaurus is a Monster in MM2 and it's a 10 HD Huge animal by default. There are advancement rules and the Allosaurus can be "advanced " to Gargantuan by default at HD 21+. Bloodfeast also looks to be around 30~40ft in most scenes long putting him right on that size boarder. 21 HD Gargantuan Dinosaur seems kind of crazy, but its only a CR 10~11 creature by RAW and Tarquin did mention he had a dinosaur training program to make more powerful monsters.

Also Caldar is a Dragon with 8th level spells and looks OLD. Whats more likely? A dragon looking too old for their actual age with a pile of sorcerer levels tacked on, or a specially bred and trained dinosaur being more dangerous than it's stat floor?

Finally if we want to be really geeky here; The default Allosaurus would have to roll a 20 (With bite, let alone secondary attacks) to hit the base Mature Adult Red Dragon. Our level 21 Dino would only need like 16 to hit an Ancient Red Dragon. Dino damage also scales faster than dragon HP due to crossing a size threshold. So Weirdly enough the advanced Allosaurus does better vs an older dragon that the base one against a younger.

I'm not sure that Calder looks old, and Serini has already called him a mind bender (which is a prestige class that adds spell levels), so I think that is more likely.

In addition, if he were old or ancient would put him out of the Order's league. A younger dragon with extra caster levels could be an appropriate CR for the Order.

The other point is that Calder's breath weapons don't seem to have done as much damage as one might expect if her were older.

[brian 333]

Sure. But this is Rich; he can make anything cool. He could make taking a coffee break cool, if he wanted to.

The author has already done coffee breaks. Twice. I loved them, and I have been waiting for another one ever since.

Roy - We know the comic has been getting intense, lately, and our audience has aged quite a bit over the last two decades, so today we're going to take it down a notch.

Belkar - He's saying that some of you should be taking the Test of the Heart before we get blamed when you die laughing.

Haley - Shhhh!

Roy - We've sent Elan over to the forums to comb through the posts there for the latest conspiracy theories. Elan, what have you found?

Elan - Thank you, Roy. Haley, you look pretty today!

Haley - Thank you, Honey. Now, focus! You have someone with you?

Elan - Oh, yeah. This poster goes by the handle, Legustrum Vulgare. Mister Legistrum, may I call you Gus?

Mr. Legustrum - No.

Elan: Do you know of any conspiracy theories?

Mr. Legustrum - Please. I invented two myself, last week.