Testing the (Lycanthropic) waters

[Baxbart]

Its been a slow day, and I've been plumbing over the combat effectiveness of lycanthropes - the weretiger in particular.

So... natural weretiger is 6HD, and an LA of +3 (DR10/silver, yes please)

Assuming I'm starting a game at, say, level 10, 15 or 20 (so 1, 6 or 11 class levels total), what kind of build would people recommend to pull together a veritable combat monster, and what form would be spend most time in (Which makes me wonder, actually, can the hybrid form, being somewhat-humanoid, still wear armour? We already know he can use weapons).

Is Warshaper worth shelling out a few levels for? What else would go well on a Weretiger?

EDIT: Forgot to mention what base race would be best too.

[Xefas]

A hybrid can wear armor, but it counts as "made for an unusual creature", and it must be made for a large creature. According to the table here, that means it costs 4x as much as the listed price. I assume magical bonuses are the same price, however.

I would advise Warblade levels, personally. Pick maneuvers that will be useful regardless of class levels, such as Leading the Attack, since everyone could use a +4 to hit, regardless of level.

Other than that, just the standard. Two-hand weapon, Power Attack, don't waste feats on Weapon Focus or Monkey Grip, etc.

[Baxbart]

Except that when you use alternate form, your original armour (i.e. NOT made for an unusual creature) automatically changes size for your new (large) form.... as per the SRD:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbi...#alternateForm

[AmberVael]

Granted, it will change size, but...

Any gear worn or carried by the creature that can’t be worn or carried in its new form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its new form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can’t wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and vice versa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped.

It's only changing size, not shape. While you are still humanoid, you're a very different shape. It might not fit.

[Baxbart]

Yep, ok, that was more the bit I wasn't sure on. Thats where a little expert forum-goer advice would be handy

Leather, hide, chainmail etc... you'd expect to flex a bit - but I can imagine a breastplate or full plate having a lot of 'give' in it, especially given the amount of work it takes to get it fitted in the first place.

[Amiria]

Yeah, I'm playing a werewolf in a PbP game here. She wears light armor, a Mithral Shirt. The DM doesn't give penalties for light armor in hybrid form. Although probably only counts for 'real' light armor. So not for Mithral Chainmail or Mithral Breastplate. Anyway that's houserules, but reasonable, imo.

[Baxbart]

No more suggestions from anyone else?

[Talic]

Use some of that strength and size for a Fighter with a spiked chain? Use the Racial HD and the Fighter levels to be able to get basic maneuvers from Nine Swords, and you could be pretty beastly. A large spiked chain has 5-15' reach, and combat reflexes would make for covering a huge chunk of battleground with trip/whack action.

I'd go human for the extra feat, and that's 5 feats in the level 10 campaign. (1st level, human, 3HD, 6HD, Fighter 1) With a +5 BAB, you should be able to qualify for that spring attack chain off the bat. (combat reflexes, dodge, mobility, spring attack, EWP:Spiked chain)

Pick up another feat with Fighter 2 and <book of nine swords class>, for rounding out power attack and improved trip. From there, three more class levels in your 9swords class will round you out for your second tier startup. (Up to 5th level maneuvers) Continue from there.

[Yami]

Scout with Spring attack.

With spring attack you can move - pounce - move, making you force to be reckoned with. You'll be able to retreat behind a better tank and can even still be useful in narrow tunnels. If you can't get real armour to work, have the party caster cast mage armour.

[lord_khaine]

no that wont work, to use pounce you have to make a charge, to use spring attack you have to Not make a charge.

i would recomend picking up either swordsage or warblade, whatever you like best, and maybe throw in a few levels of warshaper.

[CthulhuM]

I'd agree with Talic on the spiked chain idea. In your hybrid form you'll have a 20 foot reach with it. Take levels in warshaper (which every combat-focused lycanthrope should be doing anyway) to boost your base reach by 5 feet, and that jumps up to 30 feet. If you really want to, you can then take the Extended Reach feat from Savage Species (which you qualify for thanks to your flexible warshaper limbs) to get it up to 40 feet. There's are also aberrant (from LoM) and vile (from either heroes of horror or BoVD, I forget which) feats which can boost your reach, though at some point further increases just become ridiculous.

If you do get yourself a decent reach (even 30 feet is nothing to sneer at) Large and in Charge (draconomicon) is an excellent battlefield control feat - lets you not only smack people for moving around, but actually prevent them from getting close to you if you want.

[Baxbart]

Yeh, seems pretty good to me. I was thinking Large and in Charge coupled with Hold the Line, then get dex and reach up for AOO control.

Great, thanks for the input guys.

[Armads]

Warshaper is good.

Natural Werebear LA 3/Animal HD 6/Shapeshift Druid 1/Warshaper 2 is awesome, though. Become a bear with +24 str (+28 if your DM lets warshaper stack for both shapeshift + werebearness), 50ft movespeed, as well as tons of stuff.

Other good things are Dire Werebadgers (they give good saves, and with rage add ridiculous stats, especially constitution).

[Baxbart]

I'm looking at Human (for the extra feat) Fighter 1/Warshaper 2 with LA+3 and 6HD of Weretiger-y goodness at the moment. Thats ECL 12, with +16 Str, but even more Str never goes amiss!

I really chose the Tiger because it has a decent Dex bonus too, which is handy for a long-reach spiked chain build.

[Mael]

Granted, it will change size, but...

It's only changing size, not shape. While you are still humanoid, you're a very different shape. It might not fit.

Your DM might allow "Wild" armour to work while changing shape. It's supposedly for wildshaping druids, but I'd personally allow it for werecritters.

[Talic]

Meh, Warshaper. Should've seen that one coming. Your were-fu is stronger than mine...

As for dex, check out Were-bat.