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2024-03-27, 02:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2020
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Vistani tribe needs to solve a pally problem
I have in my campaign a small tribe of Vistani. These Vistani travel the Sword coast(Faerun, 5e), peddle trinkets and remove curses for money (they also plant a curse for more gold, but only if they take no heat for it). Also, they tell the fortune. They are very tribal, renegades from Domains of Dread and they want to keep away from troubles.
Recently their elders saw in their cards that they will be contacted by a group of adventurers with a strong divine aura (pallys, clerics in a group) that will demand of Vistani to lead them to a specific Domain, home of a really nasty BBEG, the three Elder Hags.
Showing the way (for a proper payment) is not a problem for Vistani, but they are well aware, if adventurers fail in their foolish quest, Hags are coming after them, their offspring and other Vistani for helping the adventurers. Vistani are good at avoiding powerful evil, but not that good. And such entities hold a long grudge.
Avoidance is a problem in this case regarding adventurers, too. Adventurers have scryed the tribe and are coming via teleport (Vistani know this due to card reading) and will persist to track the Vistani until they get them. Also, Vistani can not just cast Mind Blank on every tribe member all the time. Vistani could set up a rube to technically not transfer info to the adventurers, but hags are not LE. They are, in terms of grudges, more akin to a Mexican drug cartel and no amount of lawyering will keep them away. Very powerful and very vindictive. Vistani could send adventurers to a wrong Domain, but this will probably not work - it's a bluff that, cards show, it will probably not work. Vistani could be placed under protection of one of Faeruns' churches, but again, long term, this is not a waterproof plan, since hags have decades to work their vengeance.
Adventurers are powerful. Adventurers are willing to amply compensate the Vistani. But it's the hags. Such evils are very hard to kill permanently.
So at this point, Vistani elders must come up with a solution. Got any ideas on how would such a tribe approach such a problem?Last edited by LibraryOgre; 2024-03-28 at 10:59 AM.
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2024-03-27, 04:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2017
Re: Vistani tribe needs to solve a pally problem
Sure.
Tell the adventurers to **** off.
They may be powerful, but the hags are scarier. The worst the adventurers can do is kill this one clan, while all the other Vistani on Toril will leave the planet the moment the adventurers do that. Because this clan would have warbed the others.
The only way the Vistani would agree to help them is if the adventurers can provide a plan that guarantee the Hags' permanent demise AND show they have the means and the will to carry out that plan.
And even then the Vistani elder would probably be the only one to go with them, asking they pretend to have kidnapped him and are forcing him to help.Last edited by LibraryOgre; 2024-03-28 at 10:59 AM.
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2024-03-27, 06:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2013
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- Somewhere
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Re: Vistani tribe needs to solve a pally problem
The easiest solution for the Vistani isn't very conductive for the game, I'm afraid: Do what Vistani do and just walk away. They do have an unbeatable mobility advantage: Neither scrying nor teleportation will catch them if they simply walk into the mists and disappear into a different setting.
Last edited by LibraryOgre; 2024-03-28 at 10:59 AM.
It's Eberron, not ebberon.
It's not high magic, it's wide magic.
And it's definitely not steampunk. The only time steam gets involved is when the fire and water elementals break loose.
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2024-03-27, 01:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2021
Re: Vistani tribe needs to solve a pally problem
What the Vistani need, and their culture would support this, is a patsy.
1) Have them forge a journal containing the information written by someone that doesn't exist and would have no tie to the Vistani.
2) Put the journal into the possession of someone (the patsy) that would turn it over to The AdventurersTM voluntarily or involuntarily.
3) Drop a hint (for a price) to the The AdventurersTM that "the patsy" has what they're looking for.
4) The AdventurersTM now have said information with no visible tie to the Vistani. Done deal.Last edited by LibraryOgre; 2024-03-28 at 10:59 AM.
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2024-03-27, 03:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: Vistani tribe needs to solve a pally problem
Last edited by LibraryOgre; 2024-03-28 at 11:00 AM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
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b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
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2024-03-27, 03:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2017
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2024-03-27, 04:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2021
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2024-03-27, 05:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2017
Re: Vistani tribe needs to solve a pally problem
Last edited by LibraryOgre; 2024-03-28 at 11:00 AM.
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2024-03-27, 06:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
Re: Vistani tribe needs to solve a pally problem
Last edited by LibraryOgre; 2024-03-28 at 11:00 AM.
I am the flush of excitement. The blush on the cheek. I am the Rouge!
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2024-03-27, 06:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2021
Re: Vistani tribe needs to solve a pally problem
Evil problems.
"While we appreciate you letting us know about the adventurers which we have now destroyed, the problem remains that we now know that you have the ability to find and intrude on our carefully hidden demiplane and we simply can't risk someone else finding and using you in the future."
To the OP: It appears you, as the GM, are trying to find a justification for why the Vistani would or would not help the party. But the point here is, the Vistani can see the future and know and understand their place in it. If the powers that be have granted them the vision of who is coming, they already know if they are going to help or not. So you don't need a justification beyond "Grandma saw you coming and said we are going to help you." Why did Grandma say to help? Perhaps she sees that the hags will eventually threaten the Vistani. Perhaps the hags have something in their demiplane that the Vistani need/want/covet and this gives them cover to go get it. Perhaps Grandma and her two sisters, the great aunties, intend to take over the Hag's domain after the adventurers move them out.Last edited by LibraryOgre; 2024-03-28 at 11:00 AM.
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2024-03-27, 07:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
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2024-03-27, 07:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
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Re: Vistani tribe needs to solve a pally problem
Last edited by LibraryOgre; 2024-03-28 at 11:01 AM.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2024-03-27, 08:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2020
Re: Vistani tribe needs to solve a pally problem
Are the Vistani the only ones who could help the PCs? If they do, will the hags know that it was them based on the fact that they are the only ones who could have done it?
If not, the solution is simple: help the adventurers in such a way that the hags can never ever find out. The more people who know a secret, the harder it is to keep. The safest course of action would be to send a small group of patsies, possibly with magically altered memories to prevent information from leaking, to be found by and to help the PCs. From the PCs perspective, they would come across a small group of "totally not Vistani" (maybe actually Vistani, maybe not) who are very confused but also very eager to help.
If yes, then this brings into question the limits of the divination powers of the Vistani. The Vistani elders could be convinced to help the PCs if they are convinced that the PCs will certainly win - and if they are very good at divination they'll already know this. That's a fairly boring answer: "Sure, we'll help. BTW this is how you win. Yes, I've written the plan down. Yes, it's detailed. Oh, and here's the extra copy that you'll end up needing after step #57. Hide it in your left boot now."
Another possibility is to simply embrace the fact that divination magic can be used as a justification of whatever behavior is narratively convenient: "Hey PCs, I'll help you in this very specific way under these very specific circumstances. Why? Divination told me it would lead to the best outcome. No, I don't know how. I just know that it will. No, I don't know what that outcome is either - just that it'll end up being better than whatever the alternatives are, for us."Last edited by LibraryOgre; 2024-03-28 at 11:01 AM.
Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use.
The Oberoni fallacy: to argue that a problem being fixable through homebrew means that it wasn't a problem to begin with.
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2024-03-28, 02:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2020
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Re: Vistani tribe needs to solve a pally problem
Splendid answers. The diary option is not really viable since mists shift all the time and you need a proper Vistani to gauge them. But Vistani COULD lead adventurers toward their goal by a proxy, yes. (for a small price). There is another way to find the hags (ancient scrying pool) and Vistani can lead them there. This way Vistani should also take no heat themselves.
Last edited by LibraryOgre; 2024-03-28 at 11:01 AM.
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2024-03-28, 10:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- San Antonio, Texas
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Re: Vistani tribe needs to solve a pally problem
Another option would be an outcast Vistani... someone who IS willing to lead them, for money, and possibly betray them for more money.
So, the Vistani themselves say "Absolutely not", then one of them sidles up and says "Yeah... the elders said no, but I can do it."
And, for extra fun, the outcast is the Hags' own Warlock; while "Archfey" is the suggested one for Hags, I think Undying works better.The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
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2024-03-28, 11:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- San Antonio, Texas
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Re: Vistani tribe needs to solve a pally problem
The Mod Ogre: Due to a problem with the thread's original title, I had to edit every post in this thread. The usual rules regarding edited posts (such as making your own subsequent edits) are suspended, unless you change the thread title back.
The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
*Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
*The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
Written by Me on DriveThru RPG
There are almost 400,000 threads on this site. If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.
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2024-03-28, 11:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2019
Re: Vistani tribe needs to solve a pally problem
Is this the same party who kills first, ask questions never that you've talked about earlier? They may not even try to be diplomatic with the Vistani...
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2024-03-28, 01:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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Re: Vistani tribe needs to solve a pally problem
Are the hags Domain Lords? If so, they can't escape to come after the Vistani personally. If not, oof.
And maybe the Vistani curse the adventurers to become revenants if they die without slaying the hags, to come back again and again until they do, thus keeping the hags too busy to come after the Vistani?Last edited by Segev; 2024-03-28 at 01:56 PM.