OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread

[Shining Wrath]

Oh, Calder, you made the wizard angry and afraid. The most powerful member of the Order of the Stick now really wants you dead, and is smarter than you are.
Now, how many HP of damage did Calder just take as an Allosaurus erupted in his mouth? That can't feel good.

And Serini has yet to enter combat. I have to believe she will avenge Sunny very soon.

[Doug Lampert]

That said, V has been extremely effective with their dispels over the comic: are they specced into this with a feat or two?

At the minimum, the bauble gives V a +1 to caster level checks (which dispel is). That alone probably puts V at +17 to the greater dispel check.

The DC is probably 26 or 27. 55% or 60% of success, and it doesn't need to overcome a dragon's spell resistance or silly good saves. Not a bad move even with no boost.

[Crusher]

It's a real blow to the boss's ego usually, and indicates that they are on the back foot.

Yeah, the fight has had ups and downs and surprises for Calder, but this is the first moment when Calder thinks "I might actually lose this."

[Shining Wrath]

Also, Calder got his breath weapon back and used it immediately - good tactics for a dragon, but he's probably not getting it back for a couple of rounds, and the party continues to score hits. I count 3 - two arrows, one stab from Belkar, plus whatever having an Allosaurus dislocate your jaw does. I wonder if Calder can still use his breath weapon after that, actually; his jaw may be flopping around and he's incapable of aiming.

Now, can Durkon switch over from swinging his mace to healing the injured for a round or two? There's some damaged teammates.

[gatemansgc]

Calder is having a rough day.

good, but he needs to take more damage.

[Rollin]

The lady with the horned helmet is warming up her voice.

I thought she stayed back in Firmament with Kudzu.

[gatemansgc]

They are not going to go much further.

I'm absolutely doubling down on my prediction : Calder will run away in a manner that would leave a giant hole in this place. Bloodfest will be able to go out but more importantly team evil will be able to go in - directly towards the prize without the need to go through Serini's traps.

yeah the traps are just too good. there has to be a way to ruin them.

[Ruck]

That's some really precise aim from V. Much better than we've seen before.

[Peelee]

That's some really precise aim from V. Much better than we've seen before.

Dimensional Anchor is a ray, and requires an attack roll. Dispel Magic targets a creature (or object or area) and doesn't require any roll.

[hewhosaysfish]

Love it!
LGLRNK!

[gbaji]

They are not going to go much further.

Well. Except that the route they were just going through prior to being distracted by Sunny floating off and waking up Calder, is quite a bit too small for Bloodfeast. So unless there is a different route they can go to get to the gate, Bloodfeast is not going to be going with them. So pretty much he dies, he's left here (not likely), or he gets polymorphed again maybe?

I'm absolutely doubling down on my prediction : Calder will run away in a manner that would leave a giant hole in this place. Bloodfest will be able to go out but more importantly team evil will be able to go in - directly towards the prize without the need to go through Serini's traps.

Run off somewhere and cause problems later? Yeah. That could happen.

I'm still not at all seeing how on earth "leave a giant hole" works here. This is an underground dungeon, with no physical connection to any other location in the Hollow (and required going through a magic portal to get here). The odds that there is a thin wall separating this dungeon and one that TE is in or will be entering soon is very very close to zero. It would defeat the entire purpose of having all those dungeons, and requiring that someone get all the marks from exploring all of them before the portal to the Final Dungeon appears, if one could enter the Final Dungeon just by battering down a single wall somewhere.

Red Dragons are not known for their burrowing capabilities. And that would required for this to work (and happen to burrow in the correct direction, and have the time to do this, all of which is also very very unlikely).

So, I presume that V has now permanently removed the Baleful Polymorph that Miron put on Bloodfeast back in Strip 926?

Yes. Now that the spell has actually been dispelled, Bloodfeast is permananently back to his normal size/shape.


EDIT: Oh. And rules question averted by Rich, since Bloodfeast was not fully iinside Calder's stomach, so we can't really say that LoS/LoE was blocked (which dispell magic also needs).

[woweedd]

Not your brightest move Caulder.

[KorvinStarmast]

So, I presume that V has now permanently removed the Baleful Polymorph that Miron put on Bloodfeast back in Strip 926?

That's how I understand that spell working.

There is no such thing as too much Bloodfeast. Unless you are trying to eat him.

That needs to be a t-Shirt at Cafe Press for this coming Christmas, and maybe an ornament.

[SlashDash]

Now, can Durkon switch over from swinging his mace to healing the injured for a round or two? There's some damaged teammates.

Durkon spent a lot of spells today already. Remember he cast the wind walk and likely a couple of sendings trying to contacts the paladins and\or Serini and he had that fight with Team Evil before.

Not to mention casting at least 2 spells before the Calder fight.

[SlashDash]

yeah the traps are just too good. there has to be a way to ruin them.

Exactly. That's why it seems so obvious that something will let them jump right in.

Well. Except that the route they were just going through prior to being distracted by Sunny floating off and waking up Calder, is quite a bit too small for Bloodfeast.

So unless there is a different route they can go to get to the gate, Bloodfeast is not going to be going with them. So pretty much he dies, he's left here (not likely), or he gets polymorphed again maybe?

Or as I said... A giant new opening will be formed shortly.

Run off somewhere and cause problems later? Yeah. That could happen.

I'm still not at all seeing how on earth "leave a giant hole" works here. This is an underground dungeon, with no physical connection to any other location in the Hollow (and required going through a magic portal to get here).

You're making an assumption here that isn't based on any evidence we have.

All we know is that they teleported through the portal.
But where did they teleport? You're assuming it's not connected but for all we know, it could be the exact same trick Serini used before with the secret door without the door part.

In other words they are just below monster hollow but there isn't any door to walk in unless a couple of behemoths (and possibly a beholder with a disintegration beam) opens one up.

The odds that there is a thin wall separating this dungeon and one that TE is in or will be entering soon is very very close to zero. It would defeat the entire purpose of having all those dungeons, and requiring that someone get all the marks from exploring all of them before the portal to the Final Dungeon appears, if one could enter the Final Dungeon just by battering down a single wall somewhere.

I doubt it's thin, but the point stands. It is a trick we've seen her use before and it really doesn't cause any story problems here.

The dungeon is likely still located somewhere nearby and is just surrounded by walls that travel\divination\whatever as Team Evil noted before.

Also Team Evil doesn't have to be really nearby. They just need to be able to spot a newly formed giant hole and go look it up. Most likely the good team will have to run away before that happens.

Red Dragons are not known for their burrowing capabilities. And that would required for this to work (and happen to burrow in the correct direction, and have the time to do this, all of which is also very very unlikely).

Not at all. This is a failure of imagination. There are plenty of things that can get this done without Calder actually burrowing out.

From somehow getting Sunny to use his unlimited disintegration effect to possibly tampering with the strings of creation (that we just happen to see a few strips ago) to maybe releasing some other monsters that are trapped here etc.

The original point stands: The odds of team evil walking through all of Serini's traps is 0. No way in heck is that happening. And since it's a given fact that their detect traps ability is so dreadful that they haven't noticed the swap-overs they aren't going to start paying attention to them now.

It's possible they'll have another reason how they bypass the traps, sure.
But I think some after effect of Calder's battle seems quite likely.

[tomandtish]

I think Calder bit off more than he can chew here.

V said a mouthful.

[Debatra]

: YOU COULD HAVE DONE THAT THIS WHOLE TIME?!?

[Taojnhy]

PONK! is now the sound my inner voice makes when imagining something's jaw being suddenly dislocated.

[Sermil]

And we still don't know what V's potion did!

[Fergie0044]

Huh, do we think the new and improved Belkar will acknowledge that V just saved his little buddy?

[DavidSh]

: YOU COULD HAVE DONE THAT THIS WHOLE TIME?!?

Only when it was dramatic. Or funny.

[Unoriginal]

Well remembered.

What I'm thinking is that they were all trying to keep their powder dry for a final boss fight with Xykon and Redcloak. Now they are exhausted and wounded after dealing with an ancient red dragon. It's not looking good.

The shortest estimation for Team Evil finding the Final Dungeon was two full days.

Even if several hours went by since that estimation, the OotS & Friends will have the time to rest, recover and prepare before Xykon reaches the portal.

So so long as no one dies, they should be fine.

[Psychronia]

Nice. We're used to V speaking with mouthfuls, but this time, he made someone else deal with it.
That probably hurt his jaw, but Caulder is lucky he decided to try chewing instead of swallowing. As far as I know, Greater Dispel Magic would have worked on Bloodfeast even inside a dragon's stomach, right?

Now we have a permanently bulky dino to pin this guy down. I assume an Allossaurus isn't really a match against a red dragon statwise, but the bulk and ability to physically pin the sucker down is much appreciated either way.

Also good to see V still in the fight, as disoriented as they are. Someone should probably throw some healing that way though.

[Gift Jeraff]

Trying to eat something when you know it's one spell away from reverting to a huge dinosaur? My estimation of Calder as an endgame boss monster just plummeted.

[Ghosty]

"I prepared Explosive Food this morning."

Bravo! (Insert congratulatory meme here) Just fantastic.

I hope Minrah didn't take too much of that Dragon breath. And V looks like s/he needs to slug another healing potion. Or wear a Wall of Force. Something...

[Ghosty]

I have maintained that the logical, dramatic tragedy ending of V's character arc is to permanently lose all spellcasting powers while saving the world (perhaps by destroying the Crimson Mantle arrifact?). This would be the ultimate "death" of the main thing that made V, V. The kobold was getting more absurd and metaphorical with each passing suggestion, so I feel lile this tracks.

Of course, it could also be "As for the elf, the elf kills you" (maybe in the final climactic showdown, like what happened to Kraagor).

Completely agree. (I think I even phrased it exactly the way you did in the 2nd paragraph, way back when discussing how the Oracle's prophecy was likely to be fulfilled.)

[Ghosty]

...Now I'm expecting Calder to go "you are all badly injured and your healers are out of relevant spells, while I can win this fight through sheer attrition if needed", only for the two nearly-full-ressources Paladin to show up...

OH MY GOD, THE ALLOSAURUS IS BACK IN THE RING! HE'S ON THE TOP ROPE WITH A STEEL CHAIR!

Calder's in real trouble now. Yes, it takes a LOT of damage to put down an Ancient(-ish) Red Dragon and Calder's done a lot of damage to the Order. But they've been steadily hitting him back and its finally piled up enough that he's starting to really show it. Bloodfeast being back in the fight and able to tank Calder for a couple more rounds is disastrously bad for him. The lady with the horned helmet is warming up her voice...

"WAIT A MINUTE...? THAT'S O-CHUL'S MUSIC!!!"

"YOU'RE RIGHT, GENE! THE REFEREE IS BACK IN THE RING!!!"

Smite Evil! Smite Evil!

Sigh, now I'm going to be watching old WWF clips for awhile.

I still think we might get some interesting backstory from Calder, even as a throwaway quip while fleeing for his life.

[AvangionQ]

How the hell is V still alive? Took a Polar Ray and then a greatwyrm's breath weapon ... damage exceeds HP by double.

[Ruck]

Dimensional Anchor is a ray, and requires an attack roll. Dispel Magic targets a creature (or object or area) and doesn't require any roll.

Well that's no fun.

[Ridureyu]

How the hell is V still alive? Took a Polar Ray and then a greatwyrm's breath weapon ... damage exceeds HP by double.

What's V's HP?