X-Men 97

[Psyren]

Was there another thread for this I missed?

It's so refreshing to see the X-Men done right again. A Cyclops that isn't boring and even uses his powers creatively, an X franchise that isn't obsessed with Wolverine, a Rogue that can actually fly and punch things. And the X-Men get to intersect with cosmic things again as we see

Spoiler: Episodes 4-6

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Mojo, The Watcher, as well as the Shi'ar and Kree slugging it out in space

And this series isn't shying away from the gut-punch moments either, but I'll say no more. Go watch it! Am I the only one?

[Ramza00]

Jean TeKe and picked up Logan’s Keys and Jacket after he dropped them !

[t209]

SO....

Spoiler: Trailer screenshot

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Since Captain American might appear, any idea if they would FINALLY acknowledge about Avengers showing zero concern about anti-Mutant activities.
The major gripe on Marvel universe (though you can argue that Avengers and Fantasy Four have government sponsorship and generally open with their identity or origin story...even if Mr. Fantastic had to keep his mouth shut on his son, Franklin).
Either that or "Avengers vs. X-Men" but less idiotic (maybe X-Men vs. Avengers).

[Pax1138]

SO....

Spoiler: Trailer screenshot

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Since Captain American might appear, any idea if they would FINALLY acknowledge about Avengers showing zero concern about anti-Mutant activities.
The major gripe on Marvel universe (though you can argue that Avengers and Fantasy Four have government sponsorship and generally open with their identity or origin story...even if Mr. Fantastic had to keep his mouth shut on his son, Franklin).
Either that or "Avengers vs. X-Men" but less idiotic (maybe X-Men vs. Avengers).

I hope they go the other way, honestly. AvX was terribly contrived, and I much prefer the current comics run where the Avengers are direclty supporting the mutants in their fight against Orchis. It just doesn't make sense for Steve Rogers to not care about mutant's plight.

Edit:

And I'm loving the show, of course. This is the X-Men I fell in love with, not ones with black leather outfits, or a school full of children, or one mostly fronted by Wolverine. Xavier's isn't a school, it's a hidden paramilitary training camp.

[Psyren]

Ooh, I didn't see that mid-season trailer. I guess Marvel really is flexing that they have all their toys back!

Though my money is on it being like a post-credits stinger or something. They have enough on their plate with E is for Extinction, Days of Future Past etc.

[Sholos]

I a absolutely loving the show so far, and my only tiny nitpick is I'm not quite satisfied with Wolverine's VA. It feels like he's forcing the gruffness rather than it coming off naturally.

[Cen]

Episode 7 thoughts

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So Rogue sapped Gyrich, there was a glimpse of Nimrod and then found herself back with Xmen? Did they cut something or did I black out?
Did Cyclops really only now realised he's Cables dad? Was it really never mentioned in original series?
Bastion is the big bad. Good. I love his va. I cant wait to see his interaction with Forge.
Magneto is alive. Of course.

Great episode. Great action. Love the show.
Next week is 3 part finale, right?

[JadedDM]

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Did Cyclops really only now realised he's Cables dad? Was it really never mentioned in original series?

I rewatched the original series just before the new one aired.

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No, it actually never came up. It was lightly hinted at, though; Jean sort of had an inkling but never said anything. Also, Scott never realized Havok was his brother, either, for that matter. They only met once, and were both confused as to why their powers didn't work on each other.

[Infernally Clay]

I hope they go the other way, honestly. AvX was terribly contrived, and I much prefer the current comics run where the Avengers are direclty supporting the mutants in their fight against Orchis. It just doesn't make sense for Steve Rogers to not care about mutant's plight.

I wouldn't really say Rogers doesn't care, but that the landscape in this world is different. Mutants are hated and feared by the general populace, presumably because of OZT, and governments really don't want to deal with that because elections seem to hang on it. If governments don't want to deal with that, then it will only mean the Avengers aren't officially allowed to either. I would imagine being sanctioned by the international community affords the Avengers certain freedoms and authority, after all, and while there may be some debate over whether or not being sanctioned by the international community is more important than doing what is right, Rogers can't really make unilateral decisions like that without some concrete info to work off.

I didn't take the scene to suggest the Avengers wouldn't be helping, only that they needed to do recon first.

Spoiler: On the topic of OZT

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Now that we know Bastion and OZT are the central antagonists, we know why the general populace so hates and fears mutants. As I recall, Operation Zero Tolerance is predicated on manipulating the mass media to portray mutants only in a negative light. Essentially, the average person in the world will only ever hear about the bad things mutants do and never the good things.

In fact I would imagine Bastion intends to force Magneto to commit a horrific act of terrorism, or at the very least frame him for one, to further sow division between the general populace and the mutants they're already afraid of.

The Avengers are likely doing everything they can to get to the bottom of what happened on Genosha, but the X-Men are clearly an illegal superhero team in that world. It kinda circles back to the whole government sanctioned superheroes vs vigilantes debate, insofar as despite the fact the X-Men are the good guys they kinda break international law whenever they decide to go across borders and start beating people up.

We can't exactly overlook the heavily implied twist that the only reason the UN agreed to allow Genosha to become an officially recognised country was to get rid of mutants from member states, though. Mutants on Genosha were outright forbidden to return to their home countries, despite essentially being refugees. That's just nasty and totally in line with countries not wanting to deal with the mutant "problem" and trying to make it someone else's concern instead.

That by itself already means the governments of the world will probably do what they can to stop the Avengers getting involved, because if the Avengers side with mutants then they'll all look pretty terrible for keeping mutants out.

[Psyren]

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So Rogue sapped Gyrich, there was a glimpse of Nimrod and then found herself back with Xmen? Did they cut something or did I black out?

I think the anti-psi tech they packed into him did a number on her reading ability.

I hope they go the other way, honestly. AvX was terribly contrived, and I much prefer the current comics run where the Avengers are direclty supporting the mutants in their fight against Orchis. It just doesn't make sense for Steve Rogers to not care about mutant's plight.

I can't think why else they'd establish that the Avengers are a thing in this continuity except to work towards AvX in the future.

Now, with that said - we're likely a ways off from it, as they'd have to do stuff like House of M first.

[JadedDM]

Technically the existence of the Avengers was touched upon in the previous series, albeit lightly. They would appear, but mostly in the background. Probably the biggest cameo was in the alternate timeline where there was a huge war between humans and mutants, and they were fighting on the human side (although were not mentioned by name). And there was that flashback episode where Wolverine met Captain America during WW2, I suppose.

[Pax1138]

I wouldn't really say Rogers doesn't care, but that the landscape in this world is different. Mutants are hated and feared by the general populace, presumably because of OZT, and governments really don't want to deal with that because elections seem to hang on it. If governments don't want to deal with that, then it will only mean the Avengers aren't officially allowed to either. I would imagine being sanctioned by the international community affords the Avengers certain freedoms and authority, after all, and while there may be some debate over whether or not being sanctioned by the international community is more important than doing what is right, Rogers can't really make unilateral decisions like that without some concrete info to work off.

I didn't take the scene to suggest the Avengers wouldn't be helping, only that they needed to do recon first.

Spoiler: On the topic of OZT

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Now that we know Bastion and OZT are the central antagonists, we know why the general populace so hates and fears mutants. As I recall, Operation Zero Tolerance is predicated on manipulating the mass media to portray mutants only in a negative light. Essentially, the average person in the world will only ever hear about the bad things mutants do and never the good things.

In fact I would imagine Bastion intends to force Magneto to commit a horrific act of terrorism, or at the very least frame him for one, to further sow division between the general populace and the mutants they're already afraid of.

The Avengers are likely doing everything they can to get to the bottom of what happened on Genosha, but the X-Men are clearly an illegal superhero team in that world. It kinda circles back to the whole government sanctioned superheroes vs vigilantes debate, insofar as despite the fact the X-Men are the good guys they kinda break international law whenever they decide to go across borders and start beating people up.

We can't exactly overlook the heavily implied twist that the only reason the UN agreed to allow Genosha to become an officially recognised country was to get rid of mutants from member states, though. Mutants on Genosha were outright forbidden to return to their home countries, despite essentially being refugees. That's just nasty and totally in line with countries not wanting to deal with the mutant "problem" and trying to make it someone else's concern instead.

That by itself already means the governments of the world will probably do what they can to stop the Avengers getting involved, because if the Avengers side with mutants then they'll all look pretty terrible for keeping mutants out.

Sorry, didn't mean to accuse Cappy of that particularly in this show, instead referencing some of the things that have happened in the comics (usually when they just want the Avengers and X-Men to fight, same as any hero-on-hero fight, really). Plus I think, the general opinion of a lot of fans that the Avengers should be doing more for mutants, when a lot of it is just because there's usually a pretty clear separation between the mutant side of Marvel and everything else unless a specific storyline calls for it.

Then again, Cappy has no problem going rogue for problems he thinks need immediate attention, so when he tells you about how the law is holding him back, what are you to think?

[Dragonus45]

Honestly when I finally got around to watching this episode I had expected Cap to go seriously out of pocket with the way the internet was talking about him but honestly he seemed fine here. He clearly is on Rogues side and gladly shares his information with her but he just wants to handle things by the book because he has legitimate concerns about the fallout of his actions if he calls in the big guns across country international lines willy nilly. If anything Rogue is the one who is losing it a bit here.

[Infernally Clay]

Sorry, didn't mean to accuse Cappy of that particularly in this show, instead referencing some of the things that have happened in the comics (usually when they just want the Avengers and X-Men to fight, same as any hero-on-hero fight, really). Plus I think, the general opinion of a lot of fans that the Avengers should be doing more for mutants, when a lot of it is just because there's usually a pretty clear separation between the mutant side of Marvel and everything else unless a specific storyline calls for it.

Then again, Cappy has no problem going rogue for problems he thinks need immediate attention, so when he tells you about how the law is holding him back, what are you to think?

To be fair mutants don't actually work in a setting with other superheroes. It's generally a bad idea to have the X-Men exist in the same world as characters like Spider-Man or the Fantastic Four, because the Sentinels would not fly in such a world.

I mean, in Powers of X/House of X it's clearly stated that Orchis, the clandestine organisation explicitly created to defend humanity from the "doomsday scenario" of mutants outnumbering humans, was formed in part by SHIELD and SWORD. That's the perfect example of something that doesn't make sense because why would SHIELD ever do that? They're the good guys, so why would they treat mutants like some inevitable threat that needs to be dealt with?

Could you imagine Thor letting that slide? He'd never allow humanity to build murderbots that only targets people with a specific gene. Even Doctor Doom is like "if Sentinels ever come near Latveria I'm going to consider that an act of war and you will lose", but we're s'posed to believe the Fantastic Four is okay with Sentinels hunting mutants?

That's why it doesn't really work. How can humanity hate and fear mutants with such ferocity when superheroes are widespread and accepted? It doesn't add up. Even the fear of "hormonal teenagers spontaneously acquiring superpowers" is something that isn't as big of an issue as it sounds when that's literally Spider-Man and everyone lives Spider-Man.

[t209]

Fantastic Four is okay with Sentinels hunting mutants[/B]?

Well, that part is even more jarring if you remember the Mutant Registration Act photo. The one who was painted as "Mutie" was their son, Franklin.

[Ramza00]

Honestly when I finally got around to watching this episode I had expected Cap to go seriously out of pocket with the way the internet was talking about him but honestly he seemed fine here. He clearly is on Rogues side and gladly shares his information with her but he just wants to handle things by the book because he has legitimate concerns about the fallout of his actions if he calls in the big guns across country international lines willy nilly. If anything Rogue is the one who is losing it a bit here.

In ‘92, the first season mastermold had a plan to replace humans brains with computers, and starting with Senator Kelley who was already running for president. Trask heard that plan, as did Scott, Jean, and Senator Kelley. That mastermold was most destroyed but he reappears in later seasons.

Then Trask built more robots, more mastermolds after hearing this plan. I repeat you hear a plan to replace humans and mutants with robots, and you decide to do a 2.0. Trask was off the government radar, yet was still getting support from people inside the government.

Eventually we find Trask with a mastermold in the Sahara Africa. Then Genosha happens performed by more trask robots.

( off screen to Rogue, Cyclops is talking to President Kelley [ he is the colored line hologram ], the former senator who is a mutant hater, who also heard the plan where Mastermold was going to replace his brain with a robot. Normal people are unconcerned about Mutants, and the Optics says the person who was running a very anti mutant campaign only a few years prior to getting power. )

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So you, Rogue, break into the American base and you learn the location of the next step via the general Ross (conversation off screen), then you go to that spot as Rogue and Captain America shows up and tells you to slow down.

Yeah that is going to be so successful, telling the daughter of Mystique, a soldier in the brotherhood of evil mutants who was considered a mutant terrorism group per Washington. And Washington is not so innocent, for they were the ones who funded Mastermold version 1, and they lost control of both the robots and the humans in the government.

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Yes one can make an argument to go slow as a rational matter but from a story telling perspective the govenment has been clueless and three steps behind for the last 5 years, and much of the issue is of their own making.

So let’s go even SLOWER 😉

That's why it doesn't really work. How can humanity hate and fear mutants with such ferocity when superheroes are widespread and accepted? It doesn't add up. Even the fear of "hormonal teenagers spontaneously acquiring superpowers" is something that isn't as big of an issue as it sounds when that's literally Spider-Man and everyone lives Spider-Man.

Because of horror, not terror. The fear is coming from inside the house, aka the Uncanny which in German is Un-Heim-Lich (unhomelike, unfamiliar, you no longer recognize your kids for they are mutants and you had ideas of the future as a fantasy.)

Government made supes are not scary for they are Bred not Born. They are reared and given super powers via tech, or mad science, or lots of training. Thus one feels a sense of control. Horror not Terror. Inside vs Outside. Ideas about the Self / the soul of your kids and country.

[Palanan]

Way behind the curve here, just watched the final trailer.

They had me at dual-wielding Nightcrawler. Finally, finally, Kurt done right. There's my blue pirate elf.

[Dragonus45]

Yes one can make an argument to go slow as a rational matter but from a story telling perspective the govenment has been clueless and three steps behind for the last 5 years, and much of the issue is of their own making.

So let’s go even SLOWER 😉

Sure that's also a reasonable take, although it conflates Cap with The Government in a lot of ways when ultimately he is just one guy and we don't know a lot about what the Avengers are up to in this setting. I just don't understand why the internet is acting like Cap was licking government shoe leather in this episode when he was rather deliberately helpful and friendly.

Because of horror, not terror. The fear is coming from inside the house, aka the Uncanny which in German is Un-Heim-Lich (unhomelike, unfamiliar, you no longer recognize your kids for they are mutants and you had ideas of the future as a fantasy.)

Government made supes are not scary for they are Bred not Born. They are reared and given super powers via tech, or mad science, or lots of training. Thus one feels a sense of control. Horror not Terror. Inside vs Outside. Ideas about the Self / the soul of your kids and country.

Also several non mutants do get flack related to being a potential mutant like Spider-Man.

[t209]

Sure that's also a reasonable take, although it conflates Cap with The Government in a lot of ways when ultimately he is just one guy and we don't know a lot about what the Avengers are up to in this setting. I just don't understand why the internet is acting like Cap was licking government shoe leather in this episode when he was rather deliberately helpful and friendly.

Also several non mutants do get flack related to being a potential mutant like Spider-Man.

Either having a symbol of United States along with the infamous panel based on Ultimate Universe would have been subject of satire nowadays.
Or people are more familiar with his Marvel Civil War comic and MCU version who is rather more “renegade prone”, so that might color their opinions.
Speaking of Spiderman, also as much as J Jonah Jameson had chip on his shoulder, seems that he seems to avoid accusation of Spideman as one (which later comic chalk up that he is against anti Mutant persecution).

[Ramza00]

Way behind the curve here, just watched the final trailer.

They had me at dual-wielding Nightcrawler. Finally, finally, Kurt done right. There's my blue pirate elf.

triple wielding, it moves fast for it’s his tail and his body blocks it. But Kurt took that pathfinder tiefling trait that allows him to use a third sword with his tail.

My boy Kurt is Flynning in the trailer, he has 3 swords is teleporting and uses a teleport kick to inflict non lethal damage even though he has 3 sharp things right there.

Sure that's also a reasonable take, although it conflates Cap with The Government in a lot of ways when ultimately he is just one guy and we don't know a lot about what the Avengers are up to in this setting. I just don't understand why the internet is acting like Cap was licking government shoe leather in this episode when he was rather deliberately helpful and friendly.

well that is because it is the internet, *laughs*

sigh nostalgia, sentimentality, and grief is hitting me for a Labor Historian and Professor Steven Attewell died 3 weeks ago. Besides writing about the history of the labor movement … he was also a nerd who wrote and podcast about A Song of Ice and Fire aka Game of Thrones, X-Men, and Captain America. He has done several “receipt” blogs and pods how Steve Rogers was born in July 4th, 1920 and thus grew up in the Great Depression in New York City and how politics suffuse Steve not in a chauvinism / exaggerated patriotism fashion but in a more we have the power to actually help people fashion, a society that treats people as abject is a choice and we can choose to be different followed up by action.

And how Steve after he was frozen and revived was very much a hero talking about Politics stuff in the 70s and 80s, while the other Captain Americas are more* about Authority, Deference, and Patriotism as Propaganda symbols.

*sometimes more, depends on the character and writter.

not sure if I agree with Steve with all this analysis, but I respect him, and I am going to miss him even though I do not know him personally. He was my age and the world took him early for he was dealing with cancer for several years. *sigh*

Also several non mutants do get flack related to being a potential mutant like Spider-Man.

Agreed some of the hero’s who wear masks that cover the entire face (unlike a dynamo mask like a dc robin would wear), do not do PR, do not do the outreach for a government or private company.

Sometimes they are treated as the uncanny alien strangers where people are scared for they do not know what your deal is. Spider-Man as one of the famous examples, even without JJJ.

[Infernally Clay]

Well the newest episode certainly has some food for thought. I do enjoy when the show gives time for a character to have a speech that's about mutants but it's clearly not, emphasising their role as a stand-in for marginalised groups.

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It's almost scary how prophetic the show can be, or perhaps it's just proof that time is a flat circle. Bastion's speech about how bullying the underdog makes people sympathetic to them so the solution is to commit such terrible violence that it makes people apathetic instead is remarkably on point.

It's not often that you get to see why omega level mutants are called that. Magneto shutting down the entire planet is such a boss move and it really puts humanity on the back foot, but it also kinda proves the point of anti-mutant groups too?

It reminds me of the first X-Men movie when Senator Kelly is pushing for the Mutant Registration Act because mutant powers are too easily abused and could be used against humanity. Forget Mystique impersonating the president and firing nukes at other countries, Magneto has always possessed the ability to send humanity back to the 19th century and he just did it.

It's kinda funny that I mentioned Doom just a few days ago and he shows up in this episode visibly angry with Bastion. Doom complaining about war crimes is itself kinda hilarious too.

[Errorname]

Not sure if I agree with Steve with all this analysis, but I respect him, and I am going to miss him even though I do not know him personally. He was my age and the world took him early for he was dealing with cancer for several years.

I confess I'm not too familiar with his marvel writing, but he's done a lot of good ASOIAF analysis over the years. I was not expecting his passing to hit me as hard as it did.

[Talakeal]

Spoiler: spoilers for episode eight

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Dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom!!! !!!!!