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Thread: Improving initiative
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2007-12-20, 11:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
Improving initiative
Can someone give me some advice on how to improve iniative as a wizard? I'm doing a level 20 character battle soon, but most likely we'll start in charge range and if I don't win initiative then I will lose (and vice versa). Probably no buffs beforehand too. Any thoughts?
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2007-12-20, 11:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
Re: Improving initiative
the typical fashion a wizard uses is foresight + clelerity to act first.
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2007-12-20, 11:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
Re: Improving initiative
What sources are allowed?
And don't worry too much about getting your Init that high. If the Celerity Cheese line of spells are permitted, doesn't matter if you go first or last, you will get to go first, and kill whatever you are against. Unless its another wizard.
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2007-12-20, 11:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
Re: Improving initiative
Starting in charge range seems stupid.
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2007-12-20, 11:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Santa Monica, CA, US
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Re: Improving initiative
Improved Initiative feat (+4)
Lucky Start (Complete Scoundrel) (Let's you reroll init)
Quick Reconnoiter (Complete Adventurer) (+2)
Nerveskitter (+5 to init, spell, can be cast even if you don't have your turn yet)
Weapon of Warning (+5)
+2, +4, or +6 gloves of dexterity (+1, +2, +3 respectively)
High dex to begin with
(remember, he said no buffs before hand - which is required to cheese celerity)Last edited by Reinboom; 2007-12-20 at 11:18 AM.
Avatar by Alarra
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2007-12-20, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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- London, England
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Re: Improving initiative
1) Be a sorcerer instead
2) Take a level of Marshall and get the Add Your Charisma to Initiative aura.
If that doesn't float your boat, then the killoren race (RotW) get a little initiative bonus, Danger Sense (CAd) can help you out a little. Yondalla's Sense (RotW) will add your wisdom mod to initiative if you're a halfling. Nerveskitter (SpC) will give you a +5 as an immediate cast.
But seriously. Foresight >> Celerity >> Timestop.de·fen·es·tra·tion (dē-fĕn'ĭ-strā'shən)
n.
An act of throwing someone or something out of a window.
[From DE– + Latin fenestra, window.]
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2007-12-20, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- Seattle, WA
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Re: Improving initiative
The Nerveskitter spell in SC gives you a +5 bonus to init. Its specially worded to allow you to use it when init is rolled. Its 1st level.
Moment of Prescience I believe will let you add you level to a check, and initiative is ruled to be an ability check. That requires prebuffage.
Improved Init is a given, but the Blooded feat in some Dragon or another gives a +2 that'll stack.
Gloves of Dex +6 give you a +3 init from the increase in dex score.
A Luckstone and one of the Ioun Stones give you +1 each on ability checks. Those can apply to init checks.
Unfortunately, Celerity can't be cast while flat-footed. Forsight would help, but that's prebuffage.
Well, you can get +6 from feats, +5 from Nerveskitter, +2 from items, and probably about +6 from dex with items. Thats a +19, which is not too shabby. The d20 hanges pretty heavy above your head still though.
Is there anything in MIC that increases Init?
If you don't have any qualms about class dipping, you can take a single level of Marshal from MH. The motivate dex minor aura lets you add your cha to all dex checks, including init. That'll give you another 4-6 points if you buy a Cloak of Charisma +6 and have an ok starting cha. That'll bring you up to about a +25 max.
Good luck!
EDIT: Get a Dagger of Warning, and take the quick reconoiter for another +7, bringin your initiative up to around 32. If you take prclasses, Fatespinner gives you a free reroll after 2 levels, on top of the above mentioned Lucky Start and a Mantle of Second Chances. You shouldn't lose.
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2007-12-20, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
Re: Improving initiative
There's the Swiftblade PrC from the Wizards site, which adds your casting mod to your initiative roll and gives some other really nice benefits, at the cost of 4 caster levels (lets you use haste as time stop, though, and take an extra standard action per round while hasted, among other things).
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2007-12-20, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
Re: Improving initiative
You could always pump Dex and dump the casting stat (to a minimum of 19) and just focus on rays. There are plenty of potent rays out there, especially if you're fighting melee classes that don't have to focus on int. Just don't forget to grab dispel to suppress any magic items he has to help ensure your rays land.
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2007-12-20, 12:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Davis, California Avatar by Ceika
Re: Improving initiative
Two levels of Scout will let you avoid being flatfooted entirely, and thus let you successfully cast Celerity before your opponent's turn. You'll only have 18 levels of Wizard, but whatever.
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2007-12-20, 01:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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2007-12-20, 01:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
Re: Improving initiative
Thanks guys, but can I get a sourcebook for luckblade, dagger of warning and luckstone?
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2007-12-20, 02:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
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- Sunnydale
Re: Improving initiative
This is wrong. The Scout's Uncanny Dodge ability is just worded in a confusing manner.
Originally Posted by Complete Adventurer, page 12Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 2nd level, a barbarian retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.
From the Online D&D Glossary:flat-footed: Especially vulnerable to attacks at the beginning of a battle. Characters are flat-footed until their first turns in the initiative cycle. A flat-footed creature loses its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity.
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2007-12-20, 03:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- Seattle, WA
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Re: Improving initiative
Luckblade is DMG, but it grants a wish, not a reroll. It does grant a +1 on all skill and ability checks, IIRC, but that luck bonus wouldn't stack with a luckstone.
Luckstone is also in DMG.
The "of Warning" I believe is in MIC. It can be added to any standard weapon. I used dagger in my example because a wiz is proficient, and it only requires 1 hand, leaving the other free for casting.
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2007-12-20, 03:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- Texas
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Re: Improving initiative
Specialist Diviner.
Improved Initiative.
Good Dex.
Nerveskitter.
Insightful Divination (Complete Mage)
Aggressive Trait
+6 (Dex) +4 (Improved Initiative) +2 (Aggressive) +5 (Nerveskitter) +9 (Insightful Divination, this is not a buff, just something you happened to cast 23 hours ago for an entirely different reason)=+26 Init modifier. Almost off the number generator against a non-dex based character.
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2007-12-20, 03:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2007
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Re: Improving initiative
Homebrew
Current Project (A sequel to Tome of Battle)
Past Projects, some of which I may come back toSpoiler
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2007-12-20, 04:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
Re: Improving initiative
Take 3 levels of Factotum which will still leave you level 9 spells.
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2007-12-20, 05:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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Re: Improving initiative
Dragon Magazine once published a hummingbird familar that gave a +4 unnamed bonus to initiative.
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2007-12-20, 05:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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2007-12-20, 06:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2005
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Re: Improving initiative
A humming bird eh? Now that' I wish I'd known when building my wizard.
As for helping the OP. There is a ring in the... MIC I beleive, that gives you +2 to spot and listen checks. Very nice ring. It also allows you to roll 2d20 for initiative and take the highest. I find it very good for ensuring you get the first action. Apologies for not having the name written down or my book out.
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2007-12-20, 06:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
Re: Improving initiative
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2007-12-20, 08:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
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2007-12-20, 09:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- Texas
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Re: Improving initiative
Okay, so:
Specialist Diviner 20.
Improved Init
Aggressive
Dex of 18 + 6 (Grey Elf)
Humming Bird Familiar with RoW substitution
Belt of Battle
Nerveskitter
Insightful Divination
That's:
4 + 2 + 7 + 8 + 2 + 5 + 9 = +37 Init.
Congratulations, you win Init, and you can take 2 standard actions. Have fun.
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2007-12-21, 12:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2005
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2007-12-21, 01:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
Re: Improving initiative
Be a Conjuration Specialist and trade in your familiar for the alternate class feature for specialists. Init doesn't matter if they can't hit you.
On DMPCs: "Remember, nothing will spice up your campaign quicker than long descriptions of NPC’s doing spectacular stuff while the players sit around and watch." -Shamus Young, DM of the Rings
Divide By Zero: Irreverent Fool, you are my hero.
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2007-12-21, 06:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
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Re: Improving initiative
Member of the Hinjo fan club. Go Hinjo!
"In Soviet Russia, the Darkness attacks you."
"Rogues not only have a lot more skill points, but sneak attack is so good it hurts..."
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2007-12-21, 06:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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