There's nothing that says I can't...

[Burley]

I'm a big fan of using rules to my advantage. I'm also a big fan of finding problems in things. When I can find a problem with a rule and use that to my advantage...well, it's pretty sweet.

An example would be a multi-class rogue/caster. Adding sneak attack damage to spells isn't prohibited anywhere, to my knowledge. Add in those sweet, sweet d6s, I say.
(I'm a big fan of not making a fool of myself, too. Tell me if I'm wrong on that one.)

Anyways, I'm looking for more things like this that I can use to throw my DM for a loop. Even if it isn't in-game...I still love discussing loopholes.

The rules:
-D&D, and let's stick with 3.5ed, since it's what I understand.
-Also, none of the obvious rule abuse, like the spiked-chain-fighter. That's cool and all, but everybody and their mother knows how it works. Be more creative.
-Please be nice to each other. If you don't agree with somebody, give a good reason, like a page number or a logical vantage point. There is nothing wrong with debate, but arguing is for the weak minded.
-Have fun.
-Make me laugh.

[Ikkitosen]

An example would be a multi-class rogue/caster. Adding sneak attack damage to spells isn't prohibited anywhere, to my knowledge. Add in those sweet, sweet d6s, I say.
(I'm a big fan of not making a fool of myself, too. Tell me if I'm wrong on that one.)

In fact this is specifically allowed - see complete arcane, on weaponlike spells. I'm not for munchkining, but I agree with building effective and interesting characters - more power to you.

[Emperor Demonking]

Do Drowning to heal &Moving while dead count and moving faster via grappling .

[Nebo_]

Also, none of the obvious rule abuse, like the spiked-chain-fighter.

What's abusive about a spiked chain fighter?

The Factotum, when using their ability to add int to damage, can do so with spells that deal ability damage. Chilling touch is suddenly a nice choice to take as a SLA.

[Kaelik]

as For SA on spells. Try Rogue 1/Wizard 5/Unseen Seer (Complete Mage) 10/Arcane Trickster 4.

Lots of SA, and all but one caster level.

Of course if you really want to throw your DM for a loop, play a Wizard, use Save-or-suck/dies. Or just cast Polymorph. Not much harder then that.

[Frosty]

Nothing says a Warblade can't end Reverie of Nessus with Ironheart Surge. Yes, everybody... Warblade > Aspect of Asmodeus

[vegetalss4]

Nothing says a Warblade can't end Reverie of Nessus with Ironheart Surge. Yes, everybody... Warblade > Aspect of Asmodeus

could you explain what these things do, for us who does not have tome of nine swords?

[cupkeyk]

From the WOTC Website:

Iron Heart Surge
Iron Heart
Level: Warblade 3
Prerequisite: One Iron Heart maneuver
Initiation Action: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: See text

By drawing on your mental strength and physical fortitude, you break free of a debilitating state that might otherwise defeat you.

Your fighting spirit, dedication, and training allow you to overcome almost anything to defeat your enemies. When you use this maneuver, select one spell, effect, or other condition currently affecting you and with a duration of 1 or more rounds. That effect ends immediately. You also surge with confidence and vengeance against your enemies, gaining a +2 morale bonus on attack rolls until the end of your next turn.

[Metal Head]

I'm a big fan of using rules to my advantage. I'm also a big fan of finding problems in things. When I can find a problem with a rule and use that to my advantage...well, it's pretty sweet.

Words can't express my disrespect for you.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Yeah, nothing remotely cheesy about it...any spell that requires an attack roll (pretty much all rays and touch spells) that deal damage (magic/force/ability/negative levels) are potential SA spells. The sneak attack deals damage dame as the energy of the spell.

In this way, one with plenty of SA can cast shocking grasp and do as much damage as a fireball. Not to mention the orb spells that are ranged touch. I think mordenkein's sword works with sneak attack also. Melf's acid arrow, and some others. Good times.

Personally, If I was going to focus on spells that could be used with SA, I might take sorcerer instead of wizard so that I could focus on the SA capable spells.

[Copacetic]

If you want to focus on SA-enabled spells, take warlock. Eldritch blast is a ray.

In fact, Warlock/Spellthief is scary. Borrow powerful spells from your caster buddies, steal spells from your enemies, eldritch blast everyone and their mother for sneak attack damage.

Mild cheese: Take the warlock invocation that gives dispel magic. Use it to counter every spell ever cast by your opponent. I think it'll work.

[Burley]

What's abusive about a spiked chain fighter?

Well, there is nothing wrong at all with the spiked-chain-fighter. If I have the intention span to do the same thing over and over, I'd be all up on it. I was just asking for more...unknown uses of the rules. Nothing against abuse, just looking for new ways to do it.

Words can't express my disrespect for you.

Probably the same amout of disrespect I have for people who post in friendly forums for the express purpose of trying to be insulting. But, hey...at least you're witty. Good job.

cupkeyk or frosty: Could either of you post what the "Reverie of Nessus" does?

[Metal Head]

Probably the same amout of disrespect I have for people who post in friendly forums for the express purpose of trying to be insulting. But, hey...at least you're witty. Good job.

cupkeyk or frosty: Could either of you post what the "Reverie of Nessus" does?

It's because it's people who abuse rules are what ruin many games, and cause many DM suicides.

DM: His level 3 character killed a Balor! All my fights die because of that ridiculous character! Farewell cruel world!
*gunshot*

[Solo]

Words can't express my disrespect for you.

You're just not trying hard enough.

[13_CBS]

It's because it's people who abuse rules are what ruin many games, and cause many DM suicides.

DM: His level 3 character killed a Balor! All my fights die because of that ridiculous character! Farewell cruel world!
*gunshot*

A DM who goes nuts over something like that isn't much of a DM at all, I think.

"Your level 3 character killed my Balor? Umm, no. Not happening."

"B-but my character can-"

"For the sake of the game, nope."

[Gralamin]

Nothing says a Warblade can't end Reverie of Nessus with Ironheart Surge. Yes, everybody... Warblade > Aspect of Asmodeus

I'm assuming your attempting to dissolve the Anti-magic field he causes? Then again, Iron Heart surge wasn't designed well... At all.

[Frosty]

Reverie of Nessus creates shaped 50 ft radius AMF around the wielder of the Ruby staff, and the wielder is surrounded by 6 walls of force (basically boxed in and protected. A cocoon if you will). Turn 1, all unwanted enchantment type effects like Dominate are gone. Turn 2, all HP are restored. Turn 3, the wielder is treated as if he had rested for a day, so all spells, Spell-like abilities and other things are all refreshed, and then Reverie of Nessus ends.

Iron Heart Surge can end all of that.

[Illiterate Scribe]

With a roar of effort, I ...

was a lulzy WotC board Meme, with regard to IHS. Anyone have a link to the original thread?

[CactusAir]

as For SA on spells. Try Rogue 1/Wizard 5/Unseen Seer (Complete Mage) 10/Arcane Trickster 4.

Lots of SA, and all but one caster level.

Of course if you really want to throw your DM for a loop, play a Wizard, use Save-or-suck/dies. Or just cast Polymorph. Not much harder then that.

Arcane trickster is weak tea. I suggest Divine Oracle instead

Factotum1/Wizard5/Unseen Seer8/Divine Oracle4/Nightmare Spinner2.

11d6 SA and up to 9d6 Iaijustu Damage.
Plus, bonus Illusion spell slots for each level and access to the Oracle domain, as well as evasion and uncanny dodge.


For real fun rules-abuse, there's always the Shadowcraft Mage.

And let's not forget the Sublime-Ur-Theurge.

My favorite thing to abuse however, has got to be the Practiced Spellcaster and Able Learner Feats.

Wiz3/Beg2/Ultimate Magus10/+Archmage or other wiz PRC's. 9th level wiz spells and you can power metamagic with your beguiler spells.

[Gralamin]

Reverie of Nessus creates shaped 50 ft radius AMF around the wielder of the Ruby staff, and the wielder is surrounded by 6 walls of force (basically boxed in and protected. A cocoon if you will). Turn 1, all unwanted enchantment type effects like Dominate are gone. Turn 2, all HP are restored. Turn 3, the wielder is treated as if he had rested for a day, so all spells, Spell-like abilities and other things are all refreshed, and then Reverie of Nessus ends.

Iron Heart Surge can end all of that.

Only due to the Antimagic field as the other effects only affect Asmodeous.

[kemmotar]

How about using an incantatrix for magic spell trigger with energy admixture, heighten spell and moilian something with a wand of fireball...you can make a simple fireball wand deal around 49d6 damage...might also maximize it while you're at it

Also tripping can give the DM a nightmare...use knockdown from sword and fist(it's usually allowed) with goliath as a race for a free +4 to the trip. Now every time you deal damage you get a free trip attempt. You have to use unarmed strikes for this. Thus, you count as large for unarmed monk damage. Get the feral template, knockdown, impr trip(free for monks), superior unarmed strike(ToB), improved natural attack and a monk's belt. Now you deal too a whole lot of damage with each shot. Goliath and feral add +8 str, +8 to trip from impr trip and powerful build. Start with 18 str and without items you have d20+16 to trip, with no items. One of the hits is bound to trip him...when he gets up he either provokes an AoO or loses his round to get back up(unless he tumbles...well no ones perfect )...i think there was also an enchantment that granted +2 or +4 on trip attempts...hmmm

[Icewalker]

Actually, you've got the effect order on Reverie of Nessus wrong...because I like ridiculously pointless nitpicking!

1: Purged of any unwanted enchantments.
2: purged of any diseases, poisons, physical maladies (such as lost body parts)
3: healed to full hp, feels as though they rested a full day, regaining spells etc.

[LibraryOgre]

Reverie of Nessus creates shaped 50 ft radius AMF around the wielder of the Ruby staff, and the wielder is surrounded by 6 walls of force (basically boxed in and protected. A cocoon if you will). Turn 1, all unwanted enchantment type effects like Dominate are gone. Turn 2, all HP are restored. Turn 3, the wielder is treated as if he had rested for a day, so all spells, Spell-like abilities and other things are all refreshed, and then Reverie of Nessus ends.

Iron Heart Surge can end all of that.

None of that looks like it's actually directly affecting the Warblade.

[Epic_Wizard]

Reverie of Nessus creates shaped 50 ft radius AMF around the wielder of the Ruby staff, and the wielder is surrounded by 6 walls of force (basically boxed in and protected. A cocoon if you will). Turn 1, all unwanted enchantment type effects like Dominate are gone. Turn 2, all HP are restored. Turn 3, the wielder is treated as if he had rested for a day, so all spells, Spell-like abilities and other things are all refreshed, and then Reverie of Nessus ends.

Iron Heart Surge can end all of that.

One where is the creature that has this located? (I assume it is an Aspect of Asmodaeus)

Second since I am assuming this is an Epic Level encounter I can think of one very distinct way to get around this ability and two ways to accomplish it. It's called YOU CAN'T DO SQUAT IF YOU ARE DEAD!!!!!

1.) Use a custom epic level spell to pipe holy water out of the Sea of Celestia through a giant gate and drown the bugger in holy water (which would fill the force bubble thing when he erects it) and eventually kill him not to mention causing continuous concentration checks from the damage.

2.) Use the epic level spell I developed (it's around on these forums somewhere) which effectively drops a 90ft radius and I think several hundred feet high Cylinder of Adamantine on the target from 4 miles up and negates air resistance. When this thing hits it is moving at approximately 2 miles PER SECOND in normal earth gravity. Someone posted a link to an asteroid impact calculator back when I first posted about the spell and if I recall the crater was like fifty feet deep and several hundred feet wide. He can have his little force bubble but as soon as he comes out of it he is molecular paste. Oh and this is all for less than 200 spellcraft dice.

Failing this just have a bunch of casters ready actions to fill his square with Delayed Blast Fireballs as soon as he goes to activate that ability. Again force bubbles do no good at all if the danger is already sitting next to you waiting to explode. Heck on that note let him have his regen bit. Just cast Delayed Blast Fireballs set to go off immediately for all three turns and when he comes out and the AMF goes down the all blow up in his face because since AMF just suppresses ongoing effects (like a DELAYED Blast Fireball) the countdown would simply start back up as soon as the field when down. (Actually since if I recall correctly time spent in an AMF still counts against the duration of an effect so you would still need to delay the blasts depending on what you DM says)

You guys really need to tell me where I find this creatures because this ability of his is WAY to much fun to get around.

[Cuddly]

Persisted Greater Aspect of the Deity. Now you're a half-celestial all day.

Though my favorite broke build, for sheer elegance, was the cleric/warblade that could do infinite damage by using a weapon that did 1d2 damage.

[Talic]

Only due to the Antimagic field as the other effects only affect Asmodeous.

Depends. The DM could rule that each part of the Reverie is a seperate effect. In that case, only the AMF would end.

[Frosty]

Epic Wizard, Aspect of Asmodeus is found in Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the 9 Hells.

And the Reverie of Nessus is not activated by any effort on the part of the wielder. The effect automatically activates as an immediate action on the part of the Staff whenever the wielder...

1. Is subject to an unwanted enchantment
2. Drops below 50% HP

[BardicDuelist]

For the Asmoedus thing: Basically, you have to try and get the Ruby Rod away from him (good luck there).

OP: Have you heard of PunPun? Ofcourse no DM would allow this, and would kill you for using most rules loop-holes.

[cupkeyk]

Nothing says i can't add the Lyric Thaumaturge's Sonic Might dice to any spell with the sonic descriptor like Iron Thunder Horn, Glossolalia and Dirge of Discord.

[Draz74]

Though my favorite broke build, for sheer elegance, was the mostly-Crusader based build that could do infinite damage by using a weapon that did 1d2 damage.

Fixed and QFT. That one doesn't even require any shady rules interpretations that your DM could argue with. He just has to either allow you to do infinite damage, or houserule something immediately. Now that's what I call elegant.