Archmages or do they say the truth.

[Emperor Demonking]

How many of your wizards at high enough levels take this class?

How many of you archmages have teleport as SLA.

[Amiria]

Almost all.

Few, Shapechange and Time Stop are more popular choices.

[Saph]

How many of your wizards at high enough levels take this class?

None so far. The abilities are good, but the pre-requisites are annoying and I don't like giving up spell slots. There are other prestige classes out there which are a lot easier to fit a character into.

How many of you archmages have teleport as SLA.

Give up a fifth-level slot, and then another fifth-level slot . . . to get the ability to cast a fifth-level spell twice a day? No, thanks.

- Saph

[Worira]

You don't give up spell slots to take archmage, just to take the SLA. And he obviously meant greater teleport, so it's a 5th and a 7th for two 7ths.

And in core, I pretty much always take archmage.

[ALOR]

I'm one level away from taking my 1st elvel of Archmage. I'm really lookin forward to it.

[Indon]

No. There's not much of a reason to prestige a Wizard unless you're doing it for story purposes.

[Kaelik]

1) about 3/4ths. Arcane Reach alone is worth it.

2) None ever for any reason. However, every single one that doesn't already have ten levels of Ur-Priest takes Greater Teleport once. Next three levels go to Shapechange/Timestop/Ect.

[mostlyharmful]

Arcane reach is a killer at high levels, if I'm not building something specific and feat intensive I always take a level just for that. As for the SLA I've never taken Greater Teleport but it makes sense, I've always prefered shapechange since you can use it to get hold of a genies supernatural (not spell-like) planeshift ability at will amoung thousands of other borked and funny uses.

[Scorpina]

I mostly have my wizards go more towards Loremaster than Archmage, because Loremaster is cool. I don't think, though, that I'd take (Greater Teleport) as a SLA even if I did make an Archmage, though.

[Mad Wizard]

No. There's not much of a reason to prestige a Wizard unless you're doing it for story purposes.

Actually, it's a very good idea to prestige a wizard. If you pick a full casting progression PrC, you lose only a couple of bonus feats and your familiar progression in exchange for all the nifty abilities you get from the PrC.

[Indon]

Actually, it's a very good idea to prestige a wizard. If you pick a full casting progression PrC, you lose only a couple of bonus feats and your familiar progression in exchange for all the nifty abilities you get from the PrC.

You're already a full caster. What do you need other abilities for?

[Zenos]

Actually, it's a very good idea to prestige a wizard. If you pick a full casting progression PrC, you lose only a couple of bonus feats and your familiar progression in exchange for all the nifty abilities you get from the PrC.

Like IoTSV. That one's scary. Seriously scary.

[Scorpina]

You're already a full caster. What do you need other abilities for?

While you might not need them desperately, you've got to look at it from the other angle. If what you're losing in exchange for them is pretty much negligable, and they have full casting progression, why on Earth (or Toril, or Eberron...) wouldn't you want them?

[Hallavast]

It's 50/50. You need three prereq. feats that I normally wouldn't take, plus the two bonus feats you lose from being a wizard. In addition you must give up several high-level spell slots.

Technically, you could take 5 metamagic feats as a wizard and replicate some of the abilites from the class instead, and you'd have a very similar build.

Therefore, taking Archmage is about as powerful as taking more levels in wizard (which is to say; extremely overpowered).

[marjan]

I mostly have my wizards go more towards Loremaster than Archmage, because Loremaster is cool. I don't think, though, that I'd take (Greater Teleport) as a SLA even if I did make an Archmage, though.

Though I never played wizard high level enough for any of them I prefer Loremaster too. Though I hate the picture in DMG (pregnant girl - WTF?).

[Collin152]

You're already a full caster. What do you need other abilities for?

Casting better spells? Being even better? Pwning all? not pwning yourself for being unprepared?

[Bag_of_Holding]

1) Only one out of two. One went Pale Master.

2) Nah, it was a 19th-level campaign, and I decided to put Time Stop for a good use.

[Scorpina]

Though I never played wizard high level enough for any of them I prefer Loremaster too. Though I hate the picture in DMG (pregnant girl - WTF?).

Yeah, I'm not big on the picture either. Mind you, I thought she was just fat..

[Enlong]

Give up a fifth-level slot, and then another fifth-level slot . . . to get the ability to cast a fifth-level spell twice a day? No, thanks.

- Saph

A useful 5th level spell that you can never again be caught not having prepared, that no longer requires a spell book to cast, etc, etc. Anything higher is just awesome (a 9th and a 5th to always have a 9th level spell of your choice ready twice a day, for instance)

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

I take Floating Disc as my SLA every time, personally. It's easily the best spell in core, if not all D&D, so getting it two times a day only makes sense.
I don't usually go wizard, though. Being a powergamer, I prefer the Samurai.

[Gralamin]

I take Floating Disc as my SLA every time, personally. It's easily the best spell in core, if not all D&D, so getting it two times a day only makes sense.
I don't usually go wizard, though. Being a powergamer, I prefer the Samurai.

The amount of sarcasm dripping from this hurts.

[TheOOB]

Unless I have another PrC i need to complete, or I really can't spare the feats, I always go archmage.

spell power and arcane reach are usually givens with me, sometimes I even double up on my arcane reach. I typically also make an effort to get a teleport spell as a SLA, so I can always escape to my haven(where my primary set of spellbooks are), if it's allowed, celerity is a good contended for a SLA(and since it's low level you can get alot of them). Other then that I try and pick up what would have been useful up to this point, even arcane fire can be useful in the right campaign.

[Kaelik]

A useful 5th level spell that you can never again be caught not having prepared, that no longer requires a spell book to cast, etc, etc. Anything higher is just awesome (a 9th and a 5th to always have a 9th level spell of your choice ready twice a day, for instance)

Yeah, but why Teleport when you can get Greater Teleport for a 5th and a 7th. I'll take the greater version, thanks.

[Collin152]

Plus, using it for teleport is dreadfully inneficiant; you give up two 5th level slots for two uses of a fifth level spell. Just prepare it, hm?
Greater teleport is a whole 'nother animal, though.

[Patashu]

Sure, but when you turn two slots into two shots at an SLA you get...

A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus or have an XP cost. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability’s use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.

A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell

So that's a free Still Silent. And you don't have to prepare it/require the materials neccesary to prepare it should they be stolen or lost, right?

[TheOOB]

Plus you can use an 8th level spell slot instead of a 5th to gain 4 teleports as SLA instead of 2, which gives you much more inter-dimensional travel freedom.

[Emperor Demonking]

So is teleport and greater teleport not that common..

[Saph]

Sure, but when you turn two slots into two shots at an SLA you get...

So that's a free Still Silent. And you don't have to prepare it/require the materials neccesary to prepare it should they be stolen or lost, right?

Yes, but think of all you're giving up for that. You need three feats to qualify for the class, two of which are mediocre and the third of which is flat-out useless. Then you're also permanently reducing your flexibility. 5th-level spells are powerful, and if your party's in the middle of a dangerous fight a couple of extra 5th-level spells makes a difference.

I wouldn't consider doing it for Greater Teleport, either, because 7th-level spells are even better than 5th-level ones. The 'teleport as SLA' comes up a lot on these boards because it features in elaborate contingency plans - "hey, even though I'm naked, blind, one-legged, and without my spellbook, I can still escape!" Thing is, in my experience, most enemies that fight you don't bother with trying to capture you and take away all your equipment. They just kill you instead.

The only Archmage SLA I'd be willing to give up spell slots for would be something that's so, so, good that I'd know that I'd always have a good use for it, every single day, no matter where we were and no matter what we were doing. Off the top of my head the only spell I can think that qualifies for that is Time Stop.

- Saph

[mostlyharmful]

The only Archmage SLA I'd be willing to give up spell slots for would be something that's so, so, good that I'd know that I'd always have a good use for it, every single day, no matter where we were and no matter what we were doing. Off the top of my head the only spell I can think that qualifies for that is Time Stop.

Yes. and unfortunately spells that good (I'd add Shapechage to Time Stop) are so over the top good they qualify as cheese in most campaigns I've seen, even at this higher level and are often banned.

[Zenos]

Sure, but when you turn two slots into two shots at an SLA you get...



So that's a free Still Silent. And you don't have to prepare it/require the materials neccesary to prepare it should they be stolen or lost, right?

Ooo, I am a bit lazy today, so I don't look it up, but would that mean Wish could be... ?