High Rollers?

[RagnaroksChosen]

So I got a question for you players and GMs alike out there. How do you handle some one who roles rediculously high on about 99% of there roles. I'm talking specificaly about Character creation and stats.

I have a player (and have had similar players ususaly about 1-2 per group) that roled for a character 18-18-17-17-16-16. I always have my players roll in front of me. It was weird. regardless thats generally his rolling for chacter creation. when the rest of my groups stat line ups are more like 16-12-9-11-10.

I was wonder if people would think it's fair to have the people who roll high, use point buy or some other form of reduced stat rolling.

The reason I bring this up is I know I have had player complaints on how rediculous those characters can be.

Thanks guys and gals!

Ps: sorry about spelling/grammer.

[Ne0]

First of all, don't allow him to bring his own dice to the session.

If that doesn't work, you might just set a rule - isn't there one in the DMG about it? - if your total modifier is more than X (Say 8 or 10, perhaps?), you have to reroll.

[Crow]

If he is rolling like that consistently, it might be time to toss him a pair of your own dice and see how he rolls. As sad as it is, people sometimes feel they need to use loaded dice to have fun.

Our group doesn't have anybody that consistently rolls like that, so when we get one player with awesome stats we just go with it. It's not like it will matter much in a few levels anyways.

[Gardakan]

You can say that he need to adjust his stats for total bonus around +10...

[RagnaroksChosen]

Ya the dice wheren't loaded this time. As he forgot his and he was using my dice...

Neo: it's if the modifers add to <= 0 never heard of a >then one.


But do eather of you have sugestions or how would you handle it if you found the player not using loaded dies?

[Person_Man]

I never use the rolling method of character generation. Someone always ends up feeling slighted or screwed.

Regular point buy works fine. If you want heroic characters, give them more points. If you want more "realistic" characters, use less. I personally use a modified version where every PC must have stats that add up to 85 prior to racial mods, with no score lower then 3 or higher then 18. My group is also well aware that I use ability damage often, and expect them to roleplay their stats (if you dump Cha, you should have a hard time communicating, if you dump Wis, you shouldn't be coming up with clever solutions to problems, etc).

However, plenty of players I know are emotionally attached to rolling for their stats. And that's fine. But if there's a regular, large disparity in the players' rolls, then you should consider using a method that eliminates skew. If the problem is that 1 player keeps rolling high, one solution is to let every player roll more dice. For example, roll 4d6 and drop the lowest. Or roll 3d6 eight times, and use the 6 highest rolls. Or roll 24d6 and allow the PCs to use the highest 18 dice in any combination they like, as long as no stat is higher then 18.

[Reinboom]

I also recommend the total bonus route.
On a side note: you don't need loaded dice to set them.
Having him roll in a cup or against a craps board works, as well.

[Telonius]

You ... you let somebody else use the DM dice? This has cursed them, possibly forever. I would recommend a cleansing ritual.

If the disparity is too ridiculously great, buff up the low guy in-game. A magic item of "You get +2 to a stat!" will do just fine.

Or, allow the players to trade in stat points for some other benefit. Maybe a weapon of legacy, a 1/day minor ability, a Ring of Wishes. The main thing is to achieve some rough sort of balance, without making the players upset that they're somewhat less powerful (even if they are).

[JaxGaret]

As a bona fide Dice Jesus myself, I say let him point buy his character.

It's what I do, even when the rest of the group is rolling. It's just unfair otherwise.

[RagnaroksChosen]

You ... you let somebody else use the DM dice? This has cursed them, possibly forever. I would recommend a cleansing ritual.

If the disparity is too ridiculously great, buff up the low guy in-game. A magic item of "You get +2 to a stat!" will do just fine.

Or, allow the players to trade in stat points for some other benefit. Maybe a weapon of legacy, a 1/day minor ability, a Ring of Wishes. The main thing is to achieve some rough sort of balance, without making the players upset that they're somewhat less powerful (even if they are).

ya we are pritty much about community dice rolling. What mine is ur's and what ur's is mine. specialy if all the monsters in the dungion are rolling 20's or all 1's not for a fun game.

[Fiery Justice]

While its a fairly lethal role at low levels (+4 to damage and attack with a weapon potentially) its not the end of the world. I recommend letting him roll with it, because, you know whats the point of rolling if you can't have good fortune to celebrate. If your really upset, just take two off each of his stats, with a 16-16-15-15-14-14- he still has a nice set of stats that will in no way limit his options. Or let him keep one of the eighteens. Really, the guy got lucky and while the character will be good, unless this guy is a class act minmaxer or making a Batman or playing gestalt, I wouldn't worry.

[RagnaroksChosen]

i think that the giveing of magic items out because of low stats is not a good way of balance becuase then players feel jipped.

I do like the idea of turning in high stats for stuff... I wonder if there is a system for that out there.

and ya unfortunatly the characters that ususaly get the higher stat roles to are "better" rp'ers(by the standards we run by).

I typicaly do a 4d6 drop the lowest, place where you like kinda thing. although I've been wanting to do a strait 3d6 down the attributes kinda thing....



On a side note the character then rolled those stats is playing a paladin... (to many of you 3.5 er's that may meen nothing but i starting in 2nd ed where you had to have high stats to play a paly) so me and the player had a good laugh.

[Kristoss]

My group has the same problem. In the end we just got every one to use point buy.

Quote Person_Man
Regular point buy works fine. If you want heroic characters, give them more points. If you want more "realistic" characters, use less. I personally use a modified version where every PC must have stats that add up to 85 prior to racial mods, with no score lower then 3 or higher then 18. My group is also well aware that I use ability damage often, and expect them to roleplay their stats (if you dump Cha, you should have a hard time communicating, if you dump Wis, you shouldn't be coming up with clever solutions to problems, etc).

Be careful with home brew point buy. In my expeirience you can make it so powerful that pc's just walk over monsters that are straight from a MM.

[Telonius]

i think that the giveing of magic items out because of low stats is not a good way of balance becuase then players feel jipped.

I do like the idea of turning in high stats for stuff... I wonder if there is a system for that out there.

and ya unfortunatly the characters that ususaly get the higher stat roles to are "better" rp'ers(by the standards we run by).

I typicaly do a 4d6 drop the lowest, place where you like kinda thing. although I've been wanting to do a strait 3d6 down the attributes kinda thing....



On a side note the character then rolled those stats is playing a paladin... (to many of you 3.5 er's that may meen nothing but i starting in 2nd ed where you had to have high stats to play a paly) so me and the player had a good laugh.

Oh, a Paladin? No worries then, he'll need those stats. They have a nasty case of MAD as it is (STR, CON, CHA, WIS).

[JaxGaret]

Oh, a Paladin? No worries then, he'll need those stats. They have a nasty case of MAD as it is (STR, CON, CHA, WIS).

QFT. A high stat Pally isn't going to break your campaign, at all.

[SadisticFishing]

I once rolled: 18, 18, 17, 16, 14, 11. It was a very fun character to play, and the rest of the group rolled rather well too, but since then, I've used point-buy.

[crimson77]

I have a player (and have had similar players ususaly about 1-2 per group) that roled for a character 18-18-17-17-16-16. I always have my players roll in front of me. It was weird. regardless thats generally his rolling for chacter creation. when the rest of my groups stat line ups are more like 16-12-9-11-10.

What stat method are you using? I would suggest having that player roll from a cup with an extra set of your dice or having all the players use a point buy method. Be consistent with all of the players; either have them all use point buy or roll their stats from a cup.

[Draz74]

If he can pull it off consistently, I say send him to Vegas and hire him to gamble you a new salary.

[RagnaroksChosen]

What stat method are you using? I would suggest having that player roll from a cup with an extra set of your dice or having all the players use a point buy method. Be consistent with all of the players; either have them all use point buy or roll their stats from a cup.

we use the 4d6 drop lowest. place as you wish.

and as far as a cup never thought of that.

and i know my players don't like the point buy method so im slightly timid about using it as it draws from some of the dice chucking ( which they enjoy.)

Do you think it would be unfair to have one or two people use the point buy?

[RagnaroksChosen]

If he can pull it off consistently, I say send him to Vegas and hire him to gamble you a new salary.

one of the guys who consistanly rolled high ( when i lived in AZ) played craps one day. he litteraly one 50% of the time(we where keeping a spreadsheet on the game) the People we where playing with didn't realy like that (ghetto dressed white boys). it was wierd.

Also this isn't just one person this is pritty much a constant in my games we have atleast 1 person who does this. I've had in one of my larger groups(6 people) 3 of them where high rollers and 3 of them where the type that almost had a heart attack(from happyness) when they rolled a stat over 14.

[Premier]

Three possible explanations:

1, Loaded dice. If proven for sure, kick player out of group.

2, If it only happens with d4s and d6s, tricky rolling - scooping up the dice with hugh numbers on top and doing a sort of 'sliding roll'. Buckets for rolling solve this nicely.

3, Selective memory. Once you get the idea that a player is a 'good roller', you'll unconsciously hang on to the memory of any further instances of good rolls that support the idea while forgetting most of the bad rolls.

[Dhavaer]

I once had a character who rolled a 20 for about 50% to 75% of her d20 rolls. It was just weird.

[RagnaroksChosen]

Three possible explanations:

1, Loaded dice. If proven for sure, kick player out of group.

2, If it only happens with d4s and d6s, tricky rolling - scooping up the dice with hugh numbers on top and doing a sort of 'sliding roll'. Buckets for rolling solve this nicely.

3, Selective memory. Once you get the idea that a player is a 'good roller', you'll unconsciously hang on to the memory of any further instances of good rolls that support the idea while forgetting most of the bad rolls.

1 not loaded dice checked that already

2. happens with alot of dice they generaly roll what they need. doesn't matter if its dnd or warhammer.

3. i've thought about that one but i keep decent records and i constintly check to make shure im not doing that. (as much as one can)

but thanks for the advise ill have to look at how he rolls the dice.

[Stephen_E]

If you want to continue to use dice rolling for stat generation, but also want to handle the disparity of someone who consistently rolls ridicously high, I suggest you use an XP penalty/bonus sytem.

1) Decide what elevl you want the PCs at.

2) Decide what level of total mods you want on average (+5-+6 is average for the standard method of rolling).

3) Set a bonus/penalty for each point of mods above or below the chosen level. I suggest something around 30-50% of the XP needed for the next level.

4) Those with a bonus start of with that much extra xp. Those with a penalty start of with the same xp as others, but must use half of any XP earned to pay of the penalty. Slowing their advancement so that those with worse stats will gain levels faster than those with great stats.

Example:
1) Start level 4
2) Stat mods of +6
3) Set bonus/penalty/point at 40% of 4000xp (the xp need for lev 5)
4) The example given was a PC with +20 in Mods (18/18/17/17/16/16). This is +14 above the preferred level. +14*(40%*4000) = 22400xp penalty.

Thus the PC in you example would need to earn 44800xp to reach 8th lev (28,000xp), while the rest of the party will probably be around 10th lev.
Eventually he will catch up due to getting more xp for been a lower level, if the campaign lasts that long.

Do this a few times and you're likely to see the guy discarding the high die rather than the low die of his 4 dice rolled.

Stephen

[NobleSavage]

How about having all your players roll dice for attributes, say four players, but you use those numbers as options for all the players to choose from for their characters? That way everyone could have the same scores if they wanted, or they could pick different ones, say a bunch of decent stats vs high and low stats. This would keep the fun of rolling but still make it even across the board and no one feels screwed.

[Talya]

Let him keep the rolls, but force him to play a monk. A monk actually needs stats like that to be reasonably effective compared to other melee classes with far lower scores.

(Alternately, make him play a fighter, where only 2-3 of those high ability scores are going to matter anyway.)

[SexyOchreJelly]

Let him keep the rolls, but force him to play a monk.

Bwahahahahahahaahahahahahahahah!!!

[Conray]

I've always used some kind of Birthrightesque for high abilities: Extraordinary ability scores had to be justified by a noble and high heritage, extremely high ones (like your case) reaching back to the mythical founders themselves.

With such noble heritage then comes great responsibility and all that stuff. Trouble seeks those whose heads stand out above the masses. Thus, high ability scores translate into game world disadvantages and spot light time. You, as the DM, can freely balance the amount of both, thus balancing out the high ability scores. The player with high scores will feel happy with all the attention and importance, bearing his load with pride, and the other players happily take the rewards of a free (and probably long) life.

Over time, as all members of the group acquire fame, the high-score-guy will cease to stand out for his heritage, while the treasure he didn't get and the trouble he got instead make up for the ability scores.

Thanks, RagnaroksChosen, for mentioning the 2ed paladin, one excellent tool for that DM strategy. Combined with the Cavalier prestige kit, he had horrible requirements (every score > 13) and wasn't all THAT good. But he had one thing every player craves: Prestige. When one of my players had a damn good roll, he took that class and kit - because he could. He got prestige and shiny armor and heritage, and the other players got power. He got to rescue the princess from the lofty tower, while the other players got to loot the treasure. Everyone had fun and settled in the role the dice had appointed him (notwithstanding the fact, of course, that every player got a good amount of freedom in character creation).

[Talya]

Bwahahahahahahaahahahahahahahah!!!

Hey, don't laugh.

At 18-18-17-17-16-16, the monk is going to be more effective than the fighter at 16-12-12-11-10-9.

Thing is, the monk actually needs scores that much better, relatively, to be useful. Dump the 16s in Int and Cha, and by level 8 he's got 18 str, dex, con and wis, not including gear...and good skill totals as well. He'll do alright...the monk's single biggest weakness (certainly not their only one, mind you) is insane MAD....but if you have multiple very high abilities, MAD doesn't matter so much.

[SexyOchreJelly]

I'm still giggling profusely. I apologize.