Dragon Shaman

[Admiral Squish]

So, I have PHB II. And I'm reading it, and I see this class. First glance puts it as a solid class. Then I really give it a look. I haven't payed one, yet, but it seems to be suffering from monk syndrome. Can anyone tell me if I'm overreacting? Does the dragon shaman have a place in an adventuring party? Is it a good place?

[shaggz076]

I actually have that book with me right now. The Dragon shaman is a little better off than the Monk for a variety of reasons:

1)Breath Weapon useable every D4 rounds
2)D10 HD compared to the Monks D8
3)Draconic Aura that affects all allies within 30ft
4)Immunity to your totem dragons breath weapon
5) A spell like ability that is either always active or an at will ability

Combine that with the fact that Mithral full plate is considered medium armor making it useable by the dragon shaman which really blows the socks off of having your wis bonus plus an "other modifier that increases at a dismally slow rate. And you can still use a shield for an added +2 shield bonus or more with teh right feats.

[Draz74]

Nope, no overreaction. I mean, certainly it's a better class than Monk (or even Fighter). But it still is a weak class for some of the same reasons as the Monk; it tries to fill multiple roles without filling any of them well. Its HD and armor say it should be a front-line defender, but Medium BAB and lack of feats makes that not work so well. Its breath weapon makes it seem like a blaster, but its damage and rate-of-use aren't good enough to give you a truly fearsome damage output. And you have a number of healing abilities, but none good enough to actually be the party's healer.

[Rad]

It could be nice to make a group of dragon shamans each boosting all the others... I had an idea to try one for an encounter but ditched the idea later.

[Flawless]

Well, the idea with the aura is nice but badly executed. Its effect is simply too small at later levels to really make a difference.

As for the rest of the dragon shaman's abilities, they're rather weak. Energy Immunity is nice, but not all that great and apart from that he's only got a d10 fpr hp, medium BAB and mediocre skills.

[Reinboom]

The saving grace of the class, is that you can get double auras active with a feat from Dragon Magic.

It really is lacking, however, otherwise.

[Admiral Squish]

Does dragon shaman breath bonuses and range stack with half-dragon damage and range?

[Frosty]

I houseruled Dragon Shamans so they have fighter BAB, and their Touch of Vitality healed for more. The one in my game seems to be doing fairly well as a tank.

[Craig1f]

I houseruled Dragon Shamans so they have fighter BAB, and their Touch of Vitality healed for more. The one in my game seems to be doing fairly well as a tank.

That sounds like a good idea. Shamans don't often get to use their breath attack after the first round. They also sink all their feats into the breath attack, and into Double Draconic Aura, so they don't have a lot of fighter feats to make them any good in combat.

Improving to full BaB makes them more viable.

Dragon Shamans are a poor choice for a power gamer. But, if you're in a large party, and you want a class with some flavor, they're not bad. I prefer the Dragon Fire Adept if you're just looking for a class with some dragon flavor, but that class fills a different roll than Dragon Shamans. Shamans can heal and buff the team, DFAs are basically Warlocks with a twist. However, DFAs have a MUCH better breath weapon, usable every round.

[Capt .12 Gauge]

Played one up to level 9, worked very well, I'm a big fan of the class, Hard to min/max due to the fact that their aren't really any good prestige classes for it, and I doesn't powergame well. That being said in a party with a Fighter, Druid, and a rogue, I ended up doing the most healing and the 2nd most damage. Knowing which aura to use is crucial. Most of them are okay, One is a standout amazing (the healing one, gives every one fast healing x, up to half hp, really cuts down on the need for the druid to heal, he could prep more combat spells, and ended up burning a few for summons) and one is a stand out dud (the DR is X/magic, okay at low levels, but turns to crap quickly). The class would be a true shining star given full BAB. the touch of vitality is amazing, though I have a tendency to save it for it's status effect removing capability, burning the rest of it at the end of the night to top people off. all and all it's in my top 5 classes(not based on pure power, but a combination of amusement, power, flexibility, and fluff)

Top 5 classes in 3.5
Psion
Duskblade
Dragon Shaman
Dread Necromancer
Warlock

[Admiral Squish]

Alright, half-dragon dragon shaman it is. This will be fun. I have an interesting idea for tank-dom, with full plate, a pair of spiked tower shields, and a snapping-turtle bite, inter-spaced with his breath weapon. Base AC: 32. Let them break their swords against my armor!

On a related note: Is bite always a secondary attack? Or is it only a secondary attack when using other attacks in the same turn?

Finally, I'd like to close by saying how much I do so enjoy the fluff for dragon shaman, and that I wish there mas more support for the auras. What's the name for the double-aura feat?

[SadisticFishing]

Just pump it to full BAB, and it should be fair.

[ealan]

Double Draconic Aura Dragon Magic p16

personally though it is more of a rip on the Warlock I enjoy the Dragonfire Adept more. It is in Dragon Magic also

[ealan]

Double Draconic Aura:
Preq- Character level 12, ability to project 2 different draconic auras
Benefit- you can project two draconic auras simultaneously. You must activate or dismiss your draconic auras seperatly.

[ZeroNumerous]

Alright, half-dragon dragon shaman it is. This will be fun. I have an interesting idea for tank-dom, with full plate, a pair of spiked tower shields, and a snapping-turtle bite, inter-spaced with his breath weapon. Base AC: 32. Let them break their swords against my armor!

On a related note: Is bite always a secondary attack? Or is it only a secondary attack when using other attacks in the same turn?

Half-Dragon: The LA is too steep for what little you get.

Bite: If you use it as a primary attack, then it's a primary attack.

[ealan]

True Half-Dragon is steep... go Human and add the Draconic template out of RotD. gain 2 1d3 claws, +2 str +2 con +2 Cha, Darkvision 60ft lowlight vision, Nat armor +1, +2 intimidate and +2 Spot, +4 vs magic sleep and paralysis. all that for LA +1

[F.L.]

If you have TOB available, would martial study be of any use?

[Flawless]

a pair of spiked tower shields

You know that two shield bonuses don't stack, right?

[Yami]

Ah, but when your throwing the one you need- Ah drats, can't add ranged to tower shields. They wont let me have any fun....

[ealan]

Lvl 7 Half-Dragon Dragon Shaman AC ECL 10
Full-plate +8
Dex Mod +1
Tower Shield +4
Nat armer +5
Total AC 28

Lvl 9 Draconic Human Dragon Shaman AC ECL 10
Full-plate +8
Dex Mod +1
Tower Shield +4
Nat Armer +2
Shield Specialization as Human Bonus Feat +1
Total AC 26

I think the Human is better... even dropping 2 AC, you gain 2 class levels. I'd take 2 class levels.
Now in consideration: Dragon Shaman is not prof with tower shields or heavy armer. So I assume you are in Mithral Full-Plate making a higher Dex mod available. And why not just use a Heavy Steal Shield you get a higher Dex mod.

Lvl 9 Draconic Human Dragon Shaman AC ECL 10
Mithral Full-Plate +8
Dex Mod +3
Heavy Steal Shield +2
Nat Armor +2
Shield Spec as bonus feat +1
Total AC 26

[Tormsskull]

In a typical Core game + some exceptions, I found Dragon Shamans to not be a good fit. While they aren't overpowered in the combat sense, their fast healing aura doesn't work well with a lower-magic, resources are scare type of campaign I typically play with.

Though, I have the same problem with allowing Warlocks though, any class that can continually push out magic goes against the grain of how I like to portray magic in the world.

I would surmise that in a typical world of high-powered spellcasters and 2-handed Power Attacking, Leap Attacking, Shock Troopers that Dragon Shamans would be low on the power spectrum.

[#Raptor]

Why the spikes? You can't shieldbash with towershields, they're too big.

Regarding the breath weapon, I see 2 ways to make it useful.
1.) Recover Breath feat, if possible combined with Rapid Breath for simply using your breath more often.
2.) Maximize, Heighten and Clinging Breath feats. Probably ain't going to use your breath more than once a fight then, but at least it might make some impact.

[Capt .12 Gauge]

I would be interested in playing a dragon shaman in a world with no full casters (Those with access to 9th lvl spells), put unconventional classes into the forefront. Dragon shaman could probably take the place of clerics, warlocks or bards taking the place of wiz/sor, could be fun.

[Admiral Squish]

Man, y'all totally ruined my idea...
Stupid logic, getting in the way of cheese!

[Admiral Squish]

Why the spikes? You can't shieldbash with towershields, they're too big.

Regarding the breath weapon, I see 2 ways to make it useful.
1.) Recover Breath feat, if possible combined with Rapid Breath for simply using your breath more often.
2.) Maximize, Heighten and Clinging Breath feats. Probably ain't going to use your breath more than once a fight then, but at least it might make some impact.

Can I get specifics on those feats?

[Admiral Squish]

Hey.... Wait a sec! The breath thingie is outclassed by the bahamut's dragonborn! Give it the heart selection, and it does the breath thing, has almost all the immunities and resistances dragon shamans get, AND it does untyped damage, instead of one kind of energy. Of course, it can only be used 1d4 hours, but still, you'd only use it once an encounter, anyways.

[Draz74]

That being said in a party with a Fighter, Druid, and a rogue, I ended up doing the most healing and the 2nd most damage.

Guh?? What was your Druid doing?

[ealan]

Currently playing a Dragonfire Adept... I use my breath every round in every encounter, unless I move or have other important things to do. But that means I use my breath 4 or 5 times an encounter. No recharge. But you lose a lot that the Dragon Shaman gets. IDK I like Adept better in the long run.

[TheOOB]

The dragon shaman is a class that really wanted to be a tank, but didn't quite make the grade. They have all the makings, good defense, the ability to pump up themselves and allies, enough healing to keep them in battle and help an ally the cleric can't get to, and some nice damage to spread around to their foes, unfortunately their lack of good melee ability, and ability to keep enemies from harming allies holds them back.

[dyslexicfaser]

Currently playing a Dragonfire Adept... I use my breath every round in every encounter, unless I move or have other important things to do. But that means I use my breath 4 or 5 times an encounter. No recharge. But you lose a lot that the Dragon Shaman gets. IDK I like Adept better in the long run.

Dragonfire Adept has the same 1d4 cooldown, doesn't it?