Monstrous Crab as mount or companion: Good or bad?

[Frosty]

Ok, so our level 5 party (consisting of a druid, a paladin, a Ranger, and a Beguiler) faced a Monstrous Crab. The Druid and Ranger both had Fleshraker companions. 2 Dead Fleshrakers and one horribly-mangled Beguiler later, the druid and ranger (who has the feat that raises your effective druid levels to determine animal companion abilities and availability) decided they'd want one as an animal companion. The Paladin wanted a celetial version of it as a special mount. It was declared that "It was both awesome and horrifying to see one crab squeeze and constrict two fleshrakers to death...simultaneously."

Do you guys think it's a bad idea for PCs to have Monstrous Crabs as mounts and/or companions?

[Shishnarfne]

Do you guys think it's a bad idea for PCs to have Monstrous Crabs as mounts and/or companions?

Short answer, yes, I think it's a bad idea.

Long answer, it isn't called that "darn" crab for nothing.

Since you already have fleshraker companions, you obviously aren't too worried about overpowered PC's, but I'd suggest proceeding down this road only with great caution. If you give something with these capabilities to your players, you will need to take this VERY fully into account in the future. You might need to defer allowing access to this until a higher level in order to leave this balanced (i.e. compare it to comparable companions/mounts, and figure out where it should go on list). I'd call it on par with the Dire lion without my books.

[Freelance Henchman]

The Druid and Ranger both had Fleshraker companions.

It was declared that "It was both awesome and horrifying to see one crab squeeze and constrict two fleshrakers to death...simultaneously."

Do you guys think it's a bad idea for PCs to have Monstrous Crabs as mounts and/or companions?

I think it's hilarious that your ranger and druid's reaction to seeing their animal buddies getting torn to shreds by the crab ellicits "omg kewl lets get one of those as a pet!!!!111" rather than sadness over said companion's deaths.

[reorith]

i'd allow it with a massive blow to the effective levels for the abilities dictating when a class can get a certain feature. like a level twelve paladin could have a massive crab, but it would be treated as if he was a level four paladin in determining the special abilities it has. although, if some one compelled it to fight the party, that could be bad. also, massive damage. the whole monstrous crab thing isn't all that gamebreaking

[Frosty]

Since you already have fleshraker companions, you obviously aren't too worried about overpowered PC's, but I'd suggest proceeding down this road only with great caution.

Right. There'd obviously be a penalty a la getting Pegasi as mounts or getting a T-rex as a companion.

The funny thing is, the Druid and Ranger players tried to claim that Fleshrakers are not overpowered because normally 2 CR 2 creatures (the Fleshrakers) should not lose to horribly to one CR 3 Crab.

They were pretty shocked to see their precious dinosaurs become lunch.

[Mando Knight]

At least they aren't asking for juvenile (or, *gasp*, adult!) Dragons for mounts and companions

Not right now, at least...

[Shishnarfne]

Yeah, there'd have to be a penalty (although I think those tables are a little odd... I'd rather have a pegasus mount than a griffon, myself), but I'd try to figure out which existing mounts/companions it most resembles (bears come to mind for companions) and work from there. Frankly, I'd take a monstrous crab over a dire lion as a paladin mount (especially a celestial crab) for grappling goodness, and over pretty much anything on the Druid level 7 access list... but that's my preference. If I were DM, I would not allow the crab as a companion until AT LEAST level 7, possibly 10, and not as a paladin mount until AT LEAST level 8, possibly higher. ...but I haven't ever sent a party against one of the crabs.

Regarding your players' logic... well I've seen a print version of Frostburn that lists the Monstrous crab as a CR 4 (same stats as the CR 3, just bumped the CR), and that's still probably a little low. I'd just tell 'em it says more about the crab than the dinosaurs... I've also heard people argue that the crab "isn't that bad, because a levitating sorceror can solo it." Yeah, people argue a lot about CR... at least in my neck of the woods

[Frosty]

What CR would you say the crab is? 5? 6?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Depends on the party, but 5 or 6 seems about right. Those things could be deadlier than the BBEG at low levels, at least you can run away from him.

Edit: What would you rule the cost of a Monstrous Crab corpse is? I have some spare money in a Wizard build and I may buy some opals...

[Frosty]

Run away? Not likely. That thing has a 40 base land speed.

[Scorpina]

I think he meant they could run away from the BBEG (assuming a humanoid), because he wouldn't have such ungodly speed.

[mostlyharmful]

Run away? Not likely. That thing has a 40 base land speed.

Hey, I don't have to run faster than him... I just have to run faster than my friend that hasn't memorized expiditious retreat Survival of the yellowist!

[ZeroNumerous]

It's not called Expeditious Retreat for fun, now is it?

It's actually not hard to beat a Monstrous Crab. People just stumble into the fight, see "crab" and go "Hurr.. It's a crab. Charge and smash!"

It's very simple, and I'll show you an easy five step method.

1) Stand a reasonable 60ft distance away.
2) Apply sundark goggles.
3) Assume horse stance.
4) Begin performing your native dance to the tune of "High Voltage" by Electric Six.
5) Once the crab is paralyzed and confused, retreat to safety.

Optional:
6) Pay high-level wizard to nuke the site with Meteor Swarm.

On-topic however: No, it's not a good idea. Any PC who can take this as a companion/mount will. And then they'll use it to grapple the crap out of anything else they fight.

[Frosty]

It's actually not hard to beat a Monstrous Crab.

For a party of what level? And how do you paralyze a crab? hold Monster is mind-affecting.

[fendrin]

Ok, so our level 5 party (consisting of a druid, a paladin, a Ranger, and a Beguiler) faced a Monstrous Crab. The Druid and Ranger both had Fleshraker companions. 2 Dead Fleshrakers and one horribly-mangled Beguiler later, the druid and ranger (who has the feat that raises your effective druid levels to determine animal companion abilities and availability) decided they'd want one as an animal companion. The Paladin wanted a celetial version of it as a special mount. It was declared that "It was both awesome and horrifying to see one crab squeeze and constrict two fleshrakers to death...simultaneously."

Do you guys think it's a bad idea for PCs to have Monstrous Crabs as mounts and/or companions?

Let 'em have it, but follow the Improved Grab rules properly:

Improved Grab

If a creature with this special attack hits with a melee weapon (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. No initial touch attack is required.

Unless otherwise noted, improved grab works only against opponents at least one size category smaller than the creature. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the improved grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a -20 penalty on grapple checks, but is not considered grappled itself; the creature does not lose its Dexterity bonus to AC, still threatens an area, and can use its remaining attacks against other opponents.

A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text).

When a creature gets a hold after an improved grab attack, it pulls the opponent into its space. This act does not provoke attacks of opportunity. It can even move (possibly carrying away the opponent), provided it can drag the opponent’s weight.

(emphasis added)

With the -20 penalty in place the crab is much more reasonable.
Also note the sentence before the emphasis, about the size of the creature the crab can grapple.

EDIT: wait a minute, the druid and ranger are out of luck. Crabs are vermin, not animals. IIRC, there is a feat in Eberron that allows for a vermin companion, but it should not be allowed by default.

[Kaerou]

Is it -that- crab?

That horribly under ECL'd crab that can make mincemeat out of any equal leveled party that face it bar some special terrain advantage or perhaps preperation knowing exactly what you will face?

if so.. out and sounds shady, but you cant blame the player after seeing it in horribly overpowered for its level action.

I would let them have it but frankly, have going to drop dead after a day out of saltwater if they drag it with them on their adventures.

They are aquatic creatures for a reason. I wonder how much fun they'll have playing out their adventures along beaches only.