Know of any sorceror spells known feats

[F.L.]

I'm looking to make a sorceror, (I know, should use a wizard, but what can I say, I like sorcs) and I'd like to have this sorceror know as many spells as possible. So what are some feats I could use to increase the total spells known for this sorceror?

[ZeroNumerous]

Any of the Bloodline feats from Dragon Compendium are great.

Mother Cyst(Libris Mortis) gives you some as well.

[FinalJustice]

Arcane Disciple gives you 1/Day divine spells from domains.

[Fizban]

The feat Extra Spell does just that: gives you another spell know of up to one level below the highest you can cast when you take it.

Arcane Disciple does not give you extra spells known. It allows you to take them as spells known using your normal allotment. I'm pretty sure it doesn't restrict you to 1/day per domain spell however, since you're learning them as normal spells. They will also require a wisdom of 10+spell level to cast (stated in the feat).

The Blooline Feats from the aforementioned Dragon Compendium grant an extra spell known at each level at the cost of banning a small selection of spells. Fey and Necromantic are pretty good, but the others are all valid as well.

Following the Draconic Heritage, Celestial Sorcerer Heritage, or Infernal Sorcerer Heritage feat lines (from Complete Mage and PHBII) far enough will grant you around 4 specific spells known with the last feat, but it takes a good 3 or 4 feats to get them, and they aren't that great of a selection. Dragon Magic has a much larger selection of draconic heritages, but the sets still aren't as good as say, the Draconic Bloodline feat.

The Domain Sorcerer variant from Complete Champion costs you a spell known at each level, and in return lets you cast each spell from your domain 1/day. You don't need a high wisdom score to cast them, but the DC will be based on your wisdom modifier.

There are several PrC's that will grant you lists of specific spells known, I know of one in Frostburn and one in Sandstorm, but they are very specific, and not for everyone.

[Wordmiser]

[QUOTE=F.L.]I'm looking to make a sorceror, (I know, should use a wizard, but what can I say, I like sorcs) and I'd like to have this sorceror know as many spells as possible.QUOTE]
It's about a year and a half out of date, but here's an old Wizards board thread on the subject:
Ways for a Sorcerer to gain additional spells known [Archive]--Wizards Community

I think the feats have pretty much been addressed already, but it has some other handy options.

[FinalJustice]

Yeah, and that teaches me to read feats before posting about them.

The Exalted Arcanist PrC from BoED gives you access to the Sanctified Spells as Spell Knowns, there are some cool spells there, like luminous armor and celestial aspect, but they cause you str damage. Buut, the PrC breaks the #1 rule: 'Thou shalt not loose caster levels.'

[valadil]

Bloodlines look like the most efficient way to gain a bunch of spells. I ran them by my group last night, and they all thought Bloodlines were broken. 9 extra spells? That's like 9 extra spell feats for the price of 1 feat. I didn't argue it too much (the bloodline didn't make sense for an already established character), but I really don't think these are broken. I mean, nobody takes extra spell - it's too weak. These give 9 spells, but it's a set that's already been chosen. You're likely to actually use 2-4 of them regularly. And they block off a descriptor entirely. I think they're powerful, but I would not go so far as to call these feats broken. What do y'all think?

[CthulhuM]

The Exalted Arcanist PrC from BoED gives you access to the Sanctified Spells as Spell Knowns, there are some cool spells there, like luminous armor and celestial aspect, but they cause you str damage. Buut, the PrC breaks the #1 rule: 'Thou shalt not loose caster levels.'

I dunno, I played in a party with an exalted arcanist, and those exalted spells saved our asses on many occasions. The ability damage/drain is annoying, but the power of the spells, particularly at later levels, more than makes up for it.

[marjan]

Regarding ability dmg from sanctified spells: That's what Lesser Restoration is for.

[FinalJustice]

I mentioned the PrC because one of my fav chars took it, and I think it's a fairly good PrC, although it's not uber/overpowered like Incantatrix or IoSFV. You can get two exalted feats, which can be great for flavor, extra spells AND the sanctified ones, and they're really good. Plus, it has UMD as a class skills, for a high-cha Sorcerer, even five UMD ranks can play wonders, you can use it for wands of restoration to counter the ability damage.

[cupkeyk]

I think this little guy takes the cake for most spells known per day and spell like abilities:

http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archi...x.php/t-647969

[CASTLEMIKE]

Nice link the little kobold sorcerer would be even more powerful with the Magic in the Blood feat from PGtF for bumping up daily spellcastings of Each single use ability from once a day to 3/day.

PRC specials are best IMO. A +1 Template or a +2 Template like Half Fey or Phenic is nice for spell like abilities with LA buydown since your PC has a high charisma to power them for DCs. Without LA buydown a feat like Godsight from Lost Empires of Faern is nice since it has 5 spells usable as spell like abilites each usable 3/day nice with the +0 LA Planetouched template.

One of the best with a Arcane Discipline and a Bloodline feat is a level dip in a PRC like Sandshaper or Frostmage despite the level loss so it's best with a kobold.

Cooperative Spell feat and any other meta feat to qualify for a PRC like MotAO in Complete Arcane and take 1, 4, or 7 levels to get the Spell Pool Calling special is great for no cost charging of Rings of Theurgy. MoF has the Guild Wizard of Waterdeep PRC and City of Splendors: Waterdeep references the PRC as being the PRC normally taken by members.

Take the Extra Rings feat so now your PC can wear up to 4 magic rings instead of 2 and have all of them work.

Rings of Theurgy (20,000 gp) each rings allows a spontaneous caster to know the spell stored within as a known spell which is great for customization with the spell pool since they aren't fixed.

The Dracolexi and Fiendblooded also get a few bonus known spells. The Wonder Worker PRC from BoED gets known spell slots for leveling.

The Nexus method from Dragon #319 (Greyhawk feat but the mechanics should transfer across D20 with plane travelling options in game (Maybe your PC is a distant ancestor from a plane travelling house member on an aventure way back in the past). One of the two planar source books has a similar but more limited substitution mechanic for sorcerers.

P.S. in a FRCS campaing consider taking the Initiate of Mystra PRC since it makes Anyspell and Anyspell, Greater known spells plus spellcasting in antimagic areas with a successful DC check (Krytonite defense for a spellcaster).

Lot of utility with a spellbook and Anyspell(s) when supplemented with a Spellpool useful for emergencies and changing out Rings of Theurgy or just keep them in one of your spare Rings of Theurgy from the Spell domain.

[Aquillion]

I recommend using the Arcane Preparation feat to weasel your way into Mage of the Arcane Order. You'll be able to cast any sorc/wizard spell in the SRD, plus any others your DM allows... although you'll have to use the spellpool and pay back spellpool debt to do it, so you only get access in a limited sort of way. Still, it adds a pretty nifty amount of versatility to a sorcerer. It doesn't cost you a CL, either, though you do have to pay 750 gold, at least two mostly useless feats (arcane preparation and cooperative spell, plus you'll need a metamagic feat to get in), and there's some RP requirements (put in an appearance at the college once every six months, I think, and pay a trivial yearly fee.)

Oddly, while clearly not intended, it isn't really a very broken thing to do... Mage of the Arcane Order is supposed to give prepared mages some limited benefits of being a spontaneous caster (with every spell as spells known.) As a spontaneous caster, it instead gives you some limited benefits of being a prepared caster (again, by letting you temporarily grab any spell.) It actually makes sense, and could fit a nice character concept of a sorcerer who decides to advance their natural talents through rigorous study with the arcane order... Well, sort of.

(Honestly, the fact that you basically cannot stack Sorcerer + Wizard levels in Core in any way shape or form is really, really stupid. You would expect the route from Sorcerer to Wizard to be a common one, or at least one with more materials to support it...)

[Jack_Simth]

I recommend using the Arcane Preparation feat to weasel your way into Mage of the Arcane Order. You'll be able to cast any sorc/wizard spell in the SRD, plus any others your DM allows... although you'll have to use the spellpool and pay back spellpool debt to do it, so you only get access in a limited sort of way. Still, it adds a pretty nifty amount of versatility to a sorcerer. It doesn't cost you a CL, either, though you do have to pay 750 gold, at least two mostly useless feats (arcane preparation and cooperative spell, plus you'll need a metamagic feat to get in), and there's some RP requirements (put in an appearance at the college once every six months, I think, and pay a trivial yearly fee.)

Oddly, while clearly not intended, it isn't really a very broken thing to do... Mage of the Arcane Order is supposed to give prepared mages some limited benefits of being a spontaneous caster (with every spell as spells known.) As a spontaneous caster, it instead gives you some limited benefits of being a prepared caster (again, by letting you temporarily grab any spell.) It actually makes sense, and could fit a nice character concept of a sorcerer who decides to advance their natural talents through rigorous study with the arcane order... Well, sort of.

(Honestly, the fact that you basically cannot stack Sorcerer + Wizard levels in Core in any way shape or form is really, really stupid. You would expect the route from Sorcerer to Wizard to be a common one, or at least one with more materials to support it...)

The write-up actually mentions bards and sorcerers - when it says the order has "boasts almost no sorcerers, bards, or other characters with significant talent as spontaneous casters" it rather strongly implies that is has a few. Also, consider that Arcane Preparation, the feat that permits Bards and Sorcerers to qualify, is in the same book as the PrC (this was also true with the 3.0 version, Tome and Blood, as well as the 3.5 version, Complete Arcane). Additionally, while it doesn't specifically mention Sorcerer outside of fluff text, it differentiates between casting types in a few spots - for instance, under "New Spell" it mentions that spellcasters who don't use spellbooks don't benefit from that ability. As another example, in the spellpool sidebar under "Calling a Spell" it mentions when Wizards (specifically) leave spells open, it mentions that Wizards can't learn called spells, and it uses a Wizard in the example... but other than those three spots, that section uses "caster" or "spellcaster".

[CASTLEMIKE]

I recommend using the Arcane Preparation feat to weasel your way into Mage of the Arcane Order.

IMO the Arcane Preparation feat isn't needed to enter the MotAO PRC unless the PC is planning to call meta spells from the Spellpool with the appropiate meta feat.

I didn't dig up my old copy of Tome and Blood where it might have been a requirement but according to Complete Arcane the two feat prerequisites for MotAO are Cooperative Spell andy "Any" one other meta magic feat.

The Guild Wizard of Waterdeep PRC in MoF another Spellpool calling PRC doesn't require the Arcane Preparation feat either. City of Splendors Waterdeep covers the Guild Wizards of Waterdeep and mentions GWoW is the most commonly entered PRC by members which includes sorcerers and adepts.

[The_Snark]

IMO the Arcane Preparation feat isn't needed to enter the MotAO PRC unless the PC is planning to call meta spells from the Spellpool with the appropiate meta feat.

I didn't dig up my old copy of Tome and Blood where it might have been a requirement but according to Complete Arcane the two feat prerequisites for MotAO are Cooperative Spell andy "Any" one other meta magic feat.

But it requires you to be able to prepare 2nd-level spells. Sorcerors don't prepare spells... unless they get Arcane Preparation, in which case they can use it.

Wizards, obviously, don't need Arcane Preparation for the class, which is good because they can't get it.

The Guild Wizard would work, of course, but it seems to have been designed for wizards; sorcerors wouldn't get the benefit of more spells for their spellbook, which is a pretty solid benefit, but they would have to deal with the class's built-in XP penalty.

[CASTLEMIKE]

But it requires you to be able to prepare 2nd-level spells. Sorcerors don't prepare spells... unless they get Arcane Preparation, in which case they can use it.


The Guild Wizard would work, of course, but it seems to have been designed for wizards; sorcerors wouldn't get the benefit of more spells for their spellbook, which is a pretty solid benefit, but they would have to deal with the class's built-in XP penalty.

I generally agree with most of your takes on the rules. I qualified my post with IMO.

IMO it comes down to how you interpret "prepare" arcane spells of 2nd level or greater in your game, what the Arcane Preparation feat does for a spontaneous caster in game and what the PRC requirements are for MotAO.

The benefit of the Arcane Preparation feat in Complete Arcane is that a spontaneous caster can use one or more spell slots to prepare spells they know usually for the purpose of applying a metamagic feat to the spell "but without an increase in the casting time".

Normal spellcasters who cast arcane spells without preparation who apply a metamagic feat to a spell must cast it as a full round action instead of a standard action. (Why is that? What are the spontaneous casters doing during that round? IMO the spontaneous casters are preparing the spell during the round by applying the meta feat for casting.))

IMO all the Arcane Preparation feat is doing is saving a spontaneous caster a full round of time "preparing" a meta magic spell which is the requirement for entering the MotAO PRC. The PRC doesn't specifically require the Arcane Preparation feat just the ability to prepare a spell something a spontaneous caster with a meta feat can do.

IMO if a sorcerer can apply a meta magic feat to his spells he can prepare them by taking a full round action to do so and that qualifies for the preparing the spell PRC requirement.

The PRC clearly states that spontaneous casters do not receive the benefit of the bonus spells a wizard normally receives, if the PRC wasn't intended for spontaneous casters it could just as easily said spontaneous casters cannot take the MotAO PRC. The PRC also clearly states the two required feats are Cooperative Spell and another metamagic feat.

[The_Snark]

Er... casting a spell modified with a metamagic feat isn't at all the same as preparing a spell.

The main use of Arcane Preparation is indeed to be able to use metamagic without increasing the time (well, that and to qualify for Mage of the Arcane Order, since Rapid Metamagic does the first so much better).

I mean, you could rule that sorcerors are "preparing" a spell with a metamagic feat when they take longer to cast it, and it would hardly be broken, but by the rules, preparing a spell means preparing a spell in this sense, not using a spontaneous slot to cast a metamagic-enhanced spell.

[F.L.]

Thanks for all the advice. Ultimately, I'm thinking of going down the path of a Draconic Human Sorceror with just dragon bloodline and dragon heritage. Most of the PrC's don't seem to fit with the concept, ultimately, and require too many other feats (dragon heritage is a feat hog). The character is not evil (so no mother cyst) and isn't that good, so exalted arcanist won't fit. Sandcaster might, but then again, no free feats.

Again, thanks.

[UserClone]

My recommendation, as far as a Bloodline, is Anarchic. It gives a bit of an eclectic (and useful) set of spells, with NO limitations on other spells known!!
BONUS!!

[CASTLEMIKE]

Er... casting a spell modified with a metamagic feat isn't at all the same as preparing a spell.

The main use of Arcane Preparation is indeed to be able to use metamagic without increasing the time (well, that and to qualify for Mage of the Arcane Order, since Rapid Metamagic does the first so much better).

I mean, you could rule that sorcerors are "preparing" a spell with a metamagic feat when they take longer to cast it, and it would hardly be broken, but by the rules, preparing a spell means preparing a spell in this sense, not using a spontaneous slot to cast a metamagic-enhanced spell.

All vaild points. I forgot to mention that the other Wizard's Spellpool PRC the Guild Wizard of Waterdeep from Magic of Faerun, which is also the most commonly taken PRC by guild members according to City of Splendors: Waterdeep also uses the spellpool game mechanics and doesn't require the Arcane Preparation feat:

Scribe Scroll, any one metamagic feat and Spell Penetration or Spell Focus and 3rd level spellcasting. Calling a spell from a spellpool is a spell like ability according to page 19 of MoF that requires a focus.