wildshape detection

[daggaz]

My gaming group recently waltzed into the encampment of lizardfolk who happen to be controlled by/worshipping/whatever the BBEG, an old black dragon.

(Michael, Michael, Alex, stay out!!)

So yeah, the sandbox style campaign grew railroad tracks and they were whisked off into the underdark, taken captive first by the lizardmen (it was that or certain death) and then handed over to a group of Yuan-ti led by an abomination cleric. And they were robbed of their epic-plot-gem, a large sapphire with some unkown connection to water.

Luckily for them *cough plot cough*, the yaun-ti were ambushed by a large group of drow, who were able to seriously weaken the captors. In the confusion, the group managed to slip their bonds and hide, and they waited the fight out until it was just the abomination versus a handful of drow.

They then buffed up and lept into battle, albeit a little too soon. Seeing the newcomers charging into the frey (they attacked the abomination first), the drow pulled back and waited to see who would be the victor, stealing the groups entire battle plan! (heh they were like...daaamn, we should have waited longer).

Well, with the help of a few crits, and the fact that the cleric was out of useful spells and pretty badly wounded (tho heavily buffed), they managed to kill him. Facing now an onslaught of poisoned arrows from the drow survivors, they managed to fight these guys off as well, forcing two to run off into the dark, no doubt to find reinforcements.

So now the party is lost and alone in the underdark. With a good survival check, the dwarf could probably find his way back the way they came, but that is a pretty dubious road that leads back to the BBEG. They will probably try to find some other way back to the surface.

The dwarf also scored pretty high on a knowledge religion check for the drow, and realizes that they worship Lloth and revere spiders, which plays into my question.

The druid has the vermin feat from eberron that lets him summon and wildshape into vermin, meaning he can turn into a medium spider. (very cool feat for this campaign, its core only but i just had to allow this one, especially since I removed natural spell.) Armed with that knowledge, I can definitely see him trying to use it to sneak/trick his way past any drow. He will probably also try something similiar using his crocodile form if he meets any yuan-ti again.

So my question is, what are the obvious give-aways (besides blatantly turning into the form right in front of the enemy) that it isnt a real spider, but a druid trick? And if the drow do figure it out, how much do you think they will care one way or another? I mean, the guy can turn into a freaking spider, thats a pretty cool trick if you were a drow.

The party, if it matters, is
TN human druid 6, no AC (the lizardfolk ate his hyena)
NG dwarven cleric (war and strength) 6
CE human rogue 6, working towards shadowdancer (he thought he was CN, I just fixed his sheet after his latest...erm...proposal for solving a problem).

They are slightly above WBL

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Use of a detect magic spell could give the poor thing away.

[daggaz]

Use of a detect magic spell could give the poor thing away.

I thought of that too, but wouldn't that just show that the spider has a magical aura? It is the underdark, would magical spiders be all that unbelievable?

On that note, can wildshape be dispelled somehow? Obviously dispel magic wont work.. and I know antimagic fields will, but are there other methods?

[blacksabre]

I'd say detect magic have a chance (DM's choice) of course they would have to have a "reason" to cast detect magic.
True seeing of course.

Depending on what he was trying to do as a spider would pique curioustiy of a passerby, and prehaps a disguise check , albiet a high one, would be in order.

For instance, if you polymorphed into a cat, and started walking around the city, no one would take notice, but if you tried prancing down City hall, some one may wonder, and since Shape changing is a known ability in the world, it may be subject to a check, or even a broom sweep out of the building.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I thought of that too, but wouldn't that just show that the spider has a magical aura? It is the underdark, would magical spiders be all that unbelievable?

Yes, but a moderate transmutation aura might be enough to make them investigate further.

Maybe even take it to the high priestess.

On that note, can wildshape be dispelled somehow? Obviously dispel magic wont work.. and I know antimagic fields will, but are there other methods?

Not that I can think of.

[Keld Denar]

True Seeing can see through wildshape, but that's pretty high level and very specific (short duration + expensive material component make it not viable to truesight on everything you see)

Magic Aura can erase the magic aura of the wildshape. Its a 1st level spell, so get a wand of it and have the rogue UMD it (DC20) or scrolls of it (DC21).

Nondetection would render the druid undetectable by divinations, which I believe should block detect magic. A cloak of nondetection with a wilding clasp would be a good alternative, albeit expensive.

Hmmmm, does nondetection render a character immune to that? I'm also curious about this because I have a character who is Nondetectable (and Mind Blanked) via Occult Slayer levels, who has a Ring of Invisibility. Would See Invis or True Seeing be able to locate him?

[daggaz]

Yes, but a moderate transmutation aura might be enough to make them investigate further.

Maybe even take it to the high priestess.



.

Oooh heh, forgot about identifying the aura itself... nice one, I like where that is going muahahahahaha =P (tho honestly, that would be a death sentence no matter how you spelt it.)

EDIT and yeah, as far as true seeing goes, if they run into anything that actually casts that spell to look at them, chances are pretty good that they are soon to be dead anyhow. Thats a ninth level cleric, or a 11th level wizard.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Hmmmm, does nondetection render a character immune to that? I'm also curious about this because I have a character who is Nondetectable (and Mind Blanked) via Occult Slayer levels, who has a Ring of Invisibility. Would See Invis or True Seeing be able to locate him?

Yes, if the caster level check succeeds you can overcome the Non-detection.

[Leewei]

So my question is, what are the obvious give-aways (besides blatantly turning into the form right in front of the enemy) that it isnt a real spider, but a druid trick?

Unless the druid shows exceptionally intelligent behavior while wildshaped, there are no obvious giveaways. Sense Motive skill used against the druid's Bluff skill (with a hefty Circumstance bonus -- +10 seems right since it matches the polymorph bonus -- in the druid's favor) might reveal that the spider is behaving oddly.

And if the drow do figure it out, how much do you think they will care one way or another? I mean, the guy can turn into a freaking spider, thats a pretty cool trick if you were a drow.

The druid is human; drow tend to hate humans unless they have reason to believe that the humans worship Lolth. If they merely think the spider is very smart, they are likely to react favorably to it. Mind you, a favorable reaction may involve offering it screaming victims...

[Keld Denar]

As a MoMF, you can take Drow shape as well. It might be worthwhile to appear in Drow form (pref female), then, if anyone gets close enough for further inspection, shift into large spider shape and proclaim to be a god (or a servand of a god, or just a demon). Anyone not groveling by this point gets bitten!

[CthulhuM]

I believe that by the rules they get a +10 modifier to a disguise check to appear as a normal representative of whatever species they are wild shaped into, though NPCs don't actually get a spot check to see through the disguise unless they are specifically interacting with the wild shaped character or closely observing it for some reason.