Wight Monk

[wormwood]

I've been toying with the idea of building a Wight Monk as a character for a one-shot game. He will likely be starting at ECL 15. The general idea is to build up his ability to lay the Energy Drain smackdown on folks. I'd like to do it with a 32-pt buy. Any suggestions on stats, feats, PrCs? Would he be better off as a fighter instead?

I'd like to max charisma to keep the DC as high as possible for the Energy Drain. Are there any feats that let the monk abilities key off of Charisma instead of Wisdom?

I know that I want the Necrotic Reserve feat from Libris Mortis, to keep from being snuffed out by the first hit to take me to 0 hp. Everything else is pretty open.

How would I go about building this guy? Would I have to use the Wight class levels from Libris Mortis or is there another way (a la Savage Species)?

Input please!

[Abbott]

I think there is a feat called Ascetic Mage/Sorceror somewhere that let's you accomplish just that and I think it's in complete adventurer or scoundrel.

[playswithfire]

Ascetic mage is in complete adventurer and requires you to be able to spontaneously cast second level arcane spells, so either 4 levels of sorcerer or (with a friendly dm) one level and precocious apprentice. Monk and sorc levels stack for unarmed damage, CHA to AC instead of wisdom; not stunning fist I'm pretty sure. Can give up a spell slot to get slot level to attack and damage for one round.

Or you'd have to try to get a dm to go along with a charisma version of Carmendine Monk, but since Ascetic mage exists, I'd doubt that'd work.

As far as prestige classes go, there's Soul Eater (Book of Vile Darkness), which gives other bonuses for level drain and eventually lets you drain two levels with an attack. (It actually gives you the level drain at level 1, so it may be redundant)

EDIT: apologies; somehow it just sounds like sorceror in my head so I always type it that way and didn't notice spellcheck stopping me this time

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Libris Mortis is the easiest way to go.

Note that your slam attack is the only attack that can deliver the Energy Drain, you cannot drain with every Unarmed Strike.

[Fawsto]

Wich, even stated by RAW, makes no sense... o.O

Ok, you can use Monk, but wouldn't you make more damage with swordsage? Pehaps this is not the characters archetype or, like me, you don't want to see core classes being vanquished by new ones XD

[Gorbash]

SORCERER, IT'S SORCERER, NOT SORCEROR!!!

[wormwood]

Wich, even stated by RAW, makes no sense... o.O

Ok, you can use Monk, but wouldn't you make more damage with swordsage? Pehaps this is not the characters archetype or, like me, you don't want to see core classes being vanquished by new ones XD

Honestly, I first thought of this before ToB came out, so I just stuck with the idea of Monk. Swordsage would probably be better.

I didn't realize that Slam attacks wouldn't be considered the same as the monk's Unarmed attacks. I guess they are technically different but it never occurred to me. That makes no sense in my world and kinda kills the idea.

Nevermind. :|

[wormwood]

SORCERER, IT'S SORCERER, NOT SORCEROR!!!

Sorry for the double-post (assuming i don't get ninja'd) but... I bet you like playing Rouges a lot, too.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I didn't realize that Slam attacks wouldn't be considered the same as the monk's Unarmed attacks. I guess they are technically different but it never occurred to me. That makes no sense in my world and kinda kills the idea.

Nevermind. :|

That is what I was afraid of...

[Dark Tira]

Honestly, I first thought of this before ToB came out, so I just stuck with the idea of Monk. Swordsage would probably be better.

I didn't realize that Slam attacks wouldn't be considered the same as the monk's Unarmed attacks. I guess they are technically different but it never occurred to me. That makes no sense in my world and kinda kills the idea.

Nevermind. :|

You could go with a vampire instead, their energy drain attacks work with all natural attacks.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

You could go with a vampire instead, their energy drain attacks work with all natural attacks.

Sure, but it will still only work once per round, so there is not much point.

[wormwood]

Sure, but it will still only work once per round, so there is not much point.

Yeah, once per round rather kills the level-drainy goodness of it. Back to the proverbial drawing board.

[marjan]

If you want to slap enemies with negative levels through your unarmed attacks you can do it with Monk/Sorcerer/Enlightened Fist7. Just get Arcane Thesis(Enervation), Split Ray, Empower Spell and Versatile Caster. Use Hold Ray on Split, Empowered Enervation for 7.5 NL per round on avg. Downside of this is that it can be done at lvl12+ only since you don't get Hold Ray until Enlightened Fist7 and you need 5 levels to qualify for it.

[mabriss lethe]

But you still get the multiple level drainy goodness. It's called your brute-squad. remember that every humanoid you kill rises up as a wight under your command. Neither the SRD nor the excerpt from Libris Mortis make any distinction about what sort of attack has to be used to kill your enemies in order for them to rise.

[The_Snark]

If you can get a Necrotic Focus (Libris Mortis or Magic Item Compendium) weapon, you can get around the 1/round limit, because the weapon will channel your energy drain ability.

If you have enough money to get two necrotic focus weapons, Two-weapon Fighting could make for a pretty deadly character.

Also note that you don't really need Charisma in the short-term. The saving throw for the negative levels is only to remove them 24 hours later; there's no saving throw to avoid gaining them.

[playswithfire]

If you can get a Necrotic Focus (Libris Mortis or Magic Item Compendium) weapon, you can get around the 1/round limit, because the weapon will channel your energy drain ability.

If you have enough money to get two necrotic focus weapons, Two-weapon Fighting could make for a pretty deadly character.

Also note that you don't really need Charisma in the short-term. The saving throw for the negative levels is only to remove them 24 hours later; there's no saving throw to avoid gaining them.

Necrotic Focus Scorpion Kama! (36,302 gp; bit pricey but each hit will do your unarmed strike damage +1 and the level drain)
Magic Item Compendium is fun

[RTGoodman]

I was flipping through Complete Warrior after having read this thread a bit ago, and I came across something. The Warshaper says it can grow new natural weapons and that they don't have to be the same as the creature's regular natural weapons (though it doesn't say that they can't be the same type of natural weapon).

So, could a wight that qualifies (probably through druid levels) spend several turns "growing" slam attacks (that'll last until he wants to get rid of them), each of which drains levels?

(I looked for errata about how many natural attacks you can grow and any other limitations, but I couldn't find any.)

[wormwood]

remember that every humanoid you kill rises up as a wight under your command.

Unfortunately, I don't think it specifies "under your control," just that they rise as wights.

If you can get a Necrotic Focus (Libris Mortis or Magic Item Compendium) weapon, you can get around the 1/round limit, because the weapon will channel your energy drain ability.

If you have enough money to get two necrotic focus weapons, Two-weapon Fighting could make for a pretty deadly character.

Also note that you don't really need Charisma in the short-term. The saving throw for the negative levels is only to remove them 24 hours later; there's no saving throw to avoid gaining them.

Good calls on both. I'll now look into some sort of TWF build with a pair of Necrotic Focus weapons. Also, I won't bother with the Charisma so much. :)

How about building the guy? Is taking the rather craptastic 8 levels from Libris Mortis the only way or does someone know of a template with ECL... or would they both come out the same in the end?

[marjan]

I
So, could a wight that qualifies (probably through druid levels)

That would be interesting to accomplish.

[wormwood]

That would be interesting to accomplish.

Go ahead and take some defiler levels... Rock the Suck!

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I was flipping through Complete Warrior after having read this thread a bit ago, and I came across something. The Warshaper says it can grow new natural weapons and that they don't have to be the same as the creature's regular natural weapons (though it doesn't say that they can't be the same type of natural weapon).

So, could a wight that qualifies (probably through druid levels) spend several turns "growing" slam attacks (that'll last until he wants to get rid of them), each of which drains levels?

(I looked for errata about how many natural attacks you can grow and any other limitations, but I couldn't find any.)

You can grow one new natural weapon.

If you choose a weapon you already posses you do not gain an additional weapon, instead it increases in damage.

[marjan]

Go ahead and take some defiler levels... Rock the Suck!

Or Suck The Rock.

[RTGoodman]

Unfortunately, I don't think it specifies "under your control," just that they rise as wights.

According to the SRD: "Create Spawn (Su): Any humanoid slain by a wight becomes a wight in 1d4 rounds. Spawn are under the command of the wight that created them and remain enslaved until its death. They do not possess any of the abilities they had in life." (Emphasis mine)

That would be interesting to accomplish.

Well, if you want a way that makes more sense, I guess you could take those Children of Winter feat(s?) from Eberron (I think that's what they're called - they let you wildshape into vermin and have a Vermin companion). Also, once you get high enough level you could go Blighter (from Complete Divine), though it doesn't seem to be very good.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

How about building the guy? Is taking the rather craptastic 8 levels from Libris Mortis the only way or does someone know of a template with ECL... or would they both come out the same in the end?

I think they would end up being the same and I have not heard of a lesser Wight.

[JackMage666]

Soul Eater in Book of Vile Darkness is the way to go - From my understanding you don't even need to be a Wight. Basically, it allows you (from 1st level) to make a Touch attack to give a negative level - The trick to this is that you can make a touch attack through a natural weapon or unarmed strike, but you make a regular attack roll rather than a touch attack roll. I believe the rules for that are in Complete Arcane, though they might even be as simple as the PHB.

[The_Snark]

There's a Wight template in Savage Species with a +4 level adjustment, but it's 3.0 and has some... oddities. For example, it deals two negative levels with every natural attack, but allows a Fortitude save to negate them each time (probably not a good deal).

I'd just go with the Libris Mortis version.

[wormwood]

According to the SRD: "Create Spawn (Su): Any humanoid slain by a wight becomes a wight in 1d4 rounds. Spawn are under the command of the wight that created them and remain enslaved until its death. They do not possess any of the abilities they had in life." (Emphasis mine)

Sorry. The guy above you was talking about channeling spells. I assumed you were talking about that way of draining levels. I combined your two posts in my head. Oops.

[playswithfire]

Soul Eater in Book of Vile Darkness is the way to go - From my understanding you don't even need to be a Wight. Basically, it allows you (from 1st level) to make a Touch attack to give a negative level - The trick to this is that you can make a touch attack through a natural weapon or unarmed strike, but you make a regular attack roll rather than a touch attack roll. I believe the rules for that are in Complete Arcane, though they might even be as simple as the PHB.

Half Giant LA 1
Unarmed Swordsage Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus(Tiger Claw), feat(Alertness)
Unarmed Swordsage
Unarmed Swordsage feat(TWF)
Unarmed Swordsage
Unarmed Swordsage
Unarmed Swordsage feat(Superior Unarmed Strike)
Bloodclaw Master claws of the beast
Bloodclaw Master Superior Two Weapon Fighting
Soul Eater level drain, feat(Improved Natural Attack[unarmed Strike)
Soul Eater
Soul Eater
Soul Eater feat(Improved TWF)
Soul Eater
Soul Eater
Soul Eater feat(Greater TWF), 2 level drain

Two Necrotic Focus Scorpion Kamas and a monk's belt (86000 gp or so) and you've got attacks at BAB 12/12/7/7/2/2 that all do 4d6+STR plus two level drains at ECL 16

[wormwood]

That looks awesome. Why the half giant, though?
Also, my DM wouldn't ever allow it... he's banned BoVD and BoED. I actually helped talk him into that after a previous DM continually hit us with stuff from BoVD. Doh!

[playswithfire]

That looks awesome. Why the half giant, though?

Because soul eater requires non-humanoid and powerful build makes unarmed damage a size bigger (or so I understand) Also, they have power points and in the back of my head I want to get War Mind level 5 into it somehow to get sweeping strike. I think you'd need education or something to get Knowledge(psionics) as a class skill and get in at 5.