Help with 8th level build

[Half-blood]

Okay, so here's the deal. I'm one of a group of three. Unfortunately, my two supposedly brilliant allies both make mages. forcing me to be flexible to fill in the large gaps in the group. We are all level eight (Hence the name) Help?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

What class are the other 2? A party with a druid and a beguiler has very different needs from a party with an evoker and a healer.

[Iku Rex]

Books available?

What kind of mages are the other two playing? A third mage of some sort could be fun. Just fill a different niche.

[Wordmiser]

If you're asking us what your preferances are, I'm not sure what to tell you.

For ideas? Maybe a Font of Inspiration Factotum or a Ruby Knight Vindicator?

[Reel On, Love]

Don't make a front-line melee type. If your allies are both spellcasters, that means that they will prefer fighting from Close range (and be able to start at Medium, generally); take advantage of that. Maybe an archer/skillmonkey.

[CASTLEMIKE]

Unless you have a preference consider making it 3 casters with a Cleric or Druid without more information.

[GutterRunner]

Personally I'd go with Iku Rex and ask the DM if he would be ok runing a games for a group of 3 arcane casters, then make a different caster build to the other 2. If not I'd speak to the other players and see if they'ed consider changing characters to make a more balanced group and saving one/both mages for another game.

Also remember that level 8 is high enough for leadership, which you or one of the others could take to fill a gap in a small group if the DM is ok with that. non-Lawful cleric with skill monkey cohort maybe?

[daggaz]

I would definitely not try to make some kind of ranged attacker, or another wizard. There is nothing fun for the DM to constantly have to design encounters around an inherently weak party, and not to mention, it will just suck the realism out of the game when you _never_ have to fight anything toe to toe, for some straaaange reason. (yeah, I realize the above poster(s) meant that the wizards weren't ever going to want to be in melee and wouldn't have to be considering their spell ranges, ..but lets face it, thats just not gonna always happen that way, now is it?)

And if the DM's carefully laid bandaid plans go wrong (as they inevitably do), what then? Would you prefer a TPK or deus ex machina?

I would say a cleric(melee) or a druid here. And go all out on the zilla. Your party will need healing, they will need access to divine spellcasting, and they will need somebody to knock the snot out of anything that gets too close. It could make for some pretty interesting fights, actually. As a DM, I would be excited to stage encounters for this..

[Reel On, Love]

I would definitely not try to make some kind of ranged attacker, or another wizard. There is nothing fun for the DM to constantly have to design encounters around an inherently weak party, and not to mention, it will just suck the realism out of the game when you _never_ have to fight anything toe to toe, for some straaaange reason. (yeah, I realize the above poster(s) meant that the wizards weren't ever going to want to be in melee and wouldn't have to be considering their spell ranges, ..but lets face it, thats just not gonna always happen that way, now is it?)

And if the DM's carefully laid bandaid plans go wrong (as they inevitably do), what then? Would you prefer a TPK or deus ex machina?

I think you misunderstand: I'm suggesting a character that doesn't need to be in melee to function because the group would be inherently *stronger*. They would not be dependent on sticking to melee range. They'd use battlefield control and debuffing to keep melee enemies away or unthreatening, covering their weakness in melee.

Meanwhile, a party with a single melee character would wind up getting that character whomped anyway.

[Half-blood]

they are both wizards,
I was thinking going spike chain fighter and creating a protective aura around the casters with whirlwind attack, but maybe a cleric would be good for healing, buffing, and melee fighter.

[CASTLEMIKE]

Edit: My post got lost in the wilds of the internet.

I was thinking if the Precocious Apprentice Trick works consider a Druid, Beguiler with Arcane Heireophant which woulod give your PC Druid 7 spellcasting.

[paigeoliver]

You will probably want leadership to bring along a 4th character and thus you will need a high charisma. So that leads to the solution of looking at what classes work well with high charisma without being arcane casters.

Play an 8th level healer with high charisma, the leadership feat and a longspear. You get a celestial unicorn companion for being an 8th level healer and you can use your leadership feat to grab a spirited charge fighter buddy to come along with you. Healers are sucky in the low level game, but they are pretty fun by 8th level once you are getting to order that unicorn and follower around. With this group the fighter follower and unicorn harass the baddies while you 3 casters support them from the rear.

Consider a Marshal/Fighter or marshal/cleric with the dex aura and art of war aura with a tripping weapon and improved trip. Pair him up with an improved trip fighter/barbarian cohort. With this group you and the cohort guard the casters.

Wisdom dump a favored soul and concentrate on healing and buff spells, take a couple melee feats and grab a beefy tank type warrior as a follower.

Be a pure paladin (or Marshal 1/paladin 5), and grab a cleric cohort. If going with the paladin/marshall option then take the Charging aura and get spirited charge for both yourself and the cleric.

Look through 3rd party books for other charisma fighter options like the Peasant Heroine or Dashing Swordsman.

[mapexman115]

(Half-/)Orc: Barbarian 1, Fighter 6, Frenzied Berzerker 1 is one fast-moving, hard-hitting tank option

Dwarf: Rogue 2-3, Fighter 4, Assassin (the rest) gives you sneak/skills + decent whomp

Catfolk: Combo Rogue/Warlock or Warlock/Fighter or all three

Your best bet would be to pick the weaker wizard and threaten the player with a good smiting if he/she doesn't roll up a cleric or rogue.

Or find a fourth player....

[Indon]

You could go with a Cleric. If you take the Zen Archery feat (in Complete Divine, I believe), you can make for a fair archer while still being melee-capable, and of course, you have the healing and such.

[FinalJustice]

Cleric is good, but I think Favored Soul is a better choice is you want to cover the gaps on your party. A high cha means you can do the group-face work, and you can make a spell-list for healing and buffing, self buff and go melee. Your party will still lack skillmonkeying, but let the batmans cover for this, since you've got your hands full with three roles. If they can't cover the skillmonkey role, grab leadership and a rogue/beguiler cohort.

[Yahzi]

An 8th level wizard ought to fit in pretty well. If you really think you need dolts to swing large pieces of iron, hire some.

[Wordmiser]

I'm going to second the Cleric Archer option:

Cloistered Cleric 8

Domains:
Knowledge, War, ???

Feats:
Point Blank Shot
Zen Archery
Rapid Shot
Knowledge Devotion

(No Precise Shot because your buddies are Wizards--If they get stuck in melee, they're screwed anyway)

[Sstoopidtallkid]

If you want a magic archer, warlock is much better at meeting that requirement than cleric. Elderich blasts are very good for spamming, especially when compared with arrows. 4d6 on a ranged touch attack? Yes please.

[Behold_the_Void]

Druid or Cleric is your best bet. I disagree with the people saying completely disregard melee. At your level, even assuming high optimization, there's NO way you can always avoid getting caught in melee, and if you do get caught the party is boned.

[shaggz076]

Ok well I think a few people on here also should have asked, What type of Wizards are they playing? Booster, controler, necromancer, generalist, etc. After all if one of them happen to be a necromancer then let him deal with creating the front line fighters. That would leave you to be a rogue-ish character. You take with that leadership and get a cohort that is a Cleric to be the party heal monkey.

What I would do is suggest to the two wizard players: One be a necromancer and the other be a booster. Have the Necro animate dead to create a wall of meat sheilds while the Booster buffs you and the undead. Make sure both Wizards take Necrotic skull bomb to keep the meat shields shambling and whittle down the power of your opponents. See about the spell that makes weapons into brilliant energy and cast it on the enemy meatsheilds so their weapons are useless against the undead (cancel the effect if they get near the party though). Choose ranged feats like point blank shot and such (Precise shot if you don't want to hurt your meat sheilds). Again have leadership to provide your team a heal monkey and you have all your bases covered.