GW Bails on Warhammer...again.

[Steinkügeln]

Games Workshop is cutting out Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay...again.

Even though Dark Hersey sold out in a day, and the RPG's are making a profit the last roleplaying book will be released this year.

The Black Industries website says they are going to concentrate on their (crappy) Warhammer world novels. Of course who is going to want the read mediocre writing about a game world when there's no game?

I know I won't.

SK

[Prophaniti]

That's quite a shame. I really enjoyed the old copy we have of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. I actually like the careers system better than the class system in d20. I'm totally excited for Dark Heresy and I think it would be cool if they did a good new edition of the Fantasy Roleplay as well...

I don't think I'm really angry about it, just disappointed.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

The Black Industries website says they are going to concentrate on their (crappy) Warhammer world novels. Of course who is going to want the read mediocre writing about a game world when there's no game?

Oh, I'm sure it'll sell a couple of copies.

I know nothing of Warhammer in any incarnation, but this definitely sounds like a boneheaded move to me.

[Ominous]

As I stated in the other thread that mentioned this, this really pisses me off. WFRG was one of my favorite systems and settings.

[Mr._Blinky]

Really, I'm not surprised. GW puts out some truly outstanding products, but anybody in their company on the economics side of things seems to be a true idiot. Honestly, this is just the latest in a long list of things, among the most obvious being things such as pricing so restrictive that I'm sure they're actually making far less money than they could be. GWs line of thinking when something doesn't make x amount of money is to A) Jack up the pricing, B) Come up with some kind of a "new" game to boost sales (i.e. WH 40K Apocalypse), or C) Discontinue the product all together.

They're almost as bad as the people who run Fox's programming.

[Steinkügeln]

They really got people jacked on Dark Heresy and the book is beautiful, but as people have mentioned elsewhere, its' really about one-third of an RPG.

I just recently got excited about WFRP again because we started playing one of the 2.0 campaigns. (Prophanti, you know that they released WFRP2.0 not too long ago right?).

There are so many city books and world stuff (Dwarves/Elves to name a couple biggies) that they never got to. I don't see why they'd put out Dark Hersey and then immediately say "that's it...sorry..." And knowing GW they will either not license the games to anyone else, or they will charge an enormous amount of money then micro-manage the thing out of existence. (You know, like waiting for 20 years to get Realms of Sorcery for First Edition).

It's such a great world, and such a great system, and it GW makes what they make off of their miniatures I suppose and that's that. Maybe when nobody is buying their incredibly mediocre novels, they'll have to publish WFRP again to get out of the red.

SK

[horseboy]

IDK. I'd think the odds pretty high they'd just hand it over to Jervis at Fanatic. That's what they do with everything else that's cool, but they're bored with playing.

[SurlySeraph]

Really, I'm not surprised. GW puts out some truly outstanding products, but anybody in their company on the economics side of things seems to be a true idiot. Honestly, this is just the latest in a long list of things, among the most obvious being things such as pricing so restrictive that I'm sure they're actually making far less money than they could be. GWs line of thinking when something doesn't make x amount of money is to A) Jack up the pricing, B) Come up with some kind of a "new" game to boost sales (i.e. WH 40K Apocalypse), or C) Discontinue the product all together.

The miniatures! Those damn, precious, incredibly expensive miniatures!

I love the WH40K universe, but I'd need to shell out hundreds of dollars t get a decent army for a game. They would get so many new players if they would just sell the damn things for a sane price! [/rant]

[Tengu]

Damn, again? I still remember how disappointed was I when they discontinued the first edition... I don't like that system that much now, but it was my first roleplaying game so I'll look at it with fondness.

[Fhaolan]

Games Workshop, like most RPG companies, hasn't been doing so well for the last little while. At least, it doesn't look like they are over here in Washington state at least. I've been noticing the GW stores in the area moving into smaller (read: cheaper) accomodations, reducing stock to the best-sellers, reducing their in-store playing space, etc. And since GW seems to sell the majority of it's stuff through it's own stores, if the stores don't want to carry the stuff, GW will stop publishing it.

Not really that surprising as game stores in general aren't doing so well. Redmond, Washington has gone from four or five gaming stores to one that I know of. I can't find any in Monroe, which is closer to where I live.

Specialty gaming stores like the GW stores have to be getting hit even harder. How's the market over in England?

[Matthew]

I know some of the smaller stores over here have stopped getting new D20 stock in until the future is clearer. There are two games stores literally within a stone's throw of one another in Newcastle, but they belong to larger franchises (Forbidden Planet, Travelling Man). I haven't been to the Games Workshop store in years, but I passed by this Christmas and it looked pretty much the same as ever, having always been a small establishment. Games Workshop's fortunes have been dipping ever since the last LotR's film came out, and the spectre of a world wide economic slow down has no doubt given them pause for thought.

[Steinkügeln]

According to a poster on the Black Industries forum, Games Workshop was a couple hundred thousand pounds in the red on 50+million pounds of revenue. At this time last year they were a few hundred thousand pounds profitable. But the roleplaying books are all making money and profitable! The other parts of their company are losing money, but who do you think gets cut?

I've had one effed up week, and this is sure a topper. Maybe I oughta go buy a lottery ticket or something, I'm due.

[thorgrim29]

Meh. I'm blazé with GW since the new orc book came out, no idioty they do can anger me anymore (well, almost no, the HE book pissed me off), I now just hope those morons at Nottingham die in a plane crash or something and talented people pick up the company, hell with 2 years of pre-college admin classes I could probably solve a lot of their problems.

[Fhaolan]

I liked the old 40K Ork books, like Waagh da Orks, 'Ere we go and Freebooterz. Never did like any of the stuff that came after those. They showed a sense of humor that slowly got leached away with each edition.

[Swordguy]

I liked the old 40K Ork books, like Waagh da Orks, 'Ere we go and Freebooterz. Never did like any of the stuff that came after those. They showed a sense of humor that slowly got leached away with each edition.

"No ma'am, we at Games Workshop do not have a sense of humor we are aware of."

[horseboy]

You know, I really do wish game companies would get over themselves and realize that they're making toys. It's okay for them to be funny,

[Artanis]

The miniatures! Those damn, precious, incredibly expensive miniatures!

I love the WH40K universe, but I'd need to shell out hundreds of dollars t get a decent army for a game. They would get so many new players if they would just sell the damn things for a sane price! [/rant]

<--- Case in point.

Warhammer and WH40K look like really neat games...really neat games that are MtG on CRACK. MtG is expensive as hell to do much anything with, but at least you can play at all for ten or fifteen bucks. A WH40K army costs what, $150 for a 500-point army?

[mostlyharmful]

<--- Case in point.

Warhammer and WH40K look like really neat games...really neat games that are MtG on CRACK. MtG is expensive as hell to do much anything with, but at least you can play at all for ten or fifteen bucks. A WH40K army costs what, $150 for a 500-point army?

Ah, to live in the states where minitures are ridiculously cheap....

And yes, this is anouther in their nearly unbroken string of "small child attention" span based marketing decisions.

[Dhavaer]

The miniatures! Those damn, precious, incredibly expensive miniatures!

I love the WH40K universe, but I'd need to shell out hundreds of dollars t get a decent army for a game. They would get so many new players if they would just sell the damn things for a sane price! [/rant]

I've heard minis are more expensive in the US than Oz, despite GW having a manufacturing plant there. How much is it for a box of, say, skeletons?

[GutterRunner]

From a quick look on the online store it seems to be £18 for the old-ish style 16-20 figure regiment boxes, but new plastics seem to be sold in boxes of 10 figures for £12.

When I used to play ( around 4 years ago now I think ), an estimate of 500 pts for £50 seemed to work for Warhammer. Thinking of getting back into it, considering I own all the skaven I'll ever reasonably need.

[Stephen_E]

I thought Warhammer fantasy RPG was been supported by another company other than GW. GW leased the contract out to some 3rd party.

Stephen

[Leon]

Games Workshop, like most RPG companies, hasn't been doing so well for the last little while.

RPG isn't their main point, Table top Wargames is.
But none the less they have been waning

[Hazkali]

When I used to play ( around 4 years ago now I think ), an estimate of 500 pts for £50 seemed to work for Warhammer.

It's shocking just how much the prices have gone up. When I started in about '98, you could work on the assumption of about £1/10 points, or less if you bought things like cannons which had a better price/point ratio.

Case and point are the new skeleton warriors against the old skeleton warriors; when I started you were looking at £12 (I think) for a box of 20 - 60p each. Then they upped the price to £15, then to £18, which works out at 90p each. The latest boxed set sells for £12 for 10- £1.20 a piece. In about 10 years, the prices have doubled.

And don't get me started on the miniatures themselves. I have bought cheaper miniatures that were generally better cast, and since the arrival of 7th Edition Warhammer and 4th Edition 40K, they seem to have tried to make the miniatures so crammed with details that they seem bent under the weight of their own poor composition. In many ways, I prefer the old miniatures from the 80s to the new ones.

[horseboy]

I thought Warhammer fantasy RPG was been supported by another company other than GW. GW leased the contract out to some 3rd party.
Stephen

Hog's Head? They took it back from them like oh, three, four years ago.

[Steinkügeln]

He might've been referring to Green Ronin, who did most of the redesigning and writing for the Warhammer 2nd Edition stuff since 2005. Their contract expired, and their 1000 Thrones campaign will supposedly be the last WFRP product.

Though GR handled the writing/design, Black Industries/Black Publishing, a division of GW did the Publishing.

A lot of people wish that Green Ronin could just carry the torch, but Games Workshop is always dis-interested enough to cease publishing, but not enough to keep from micromanaging other companies to death (like Hogshead).

Ah well.

[Stephen_E]

He might've been referring to Green Ronin, who did most of the redesigning and writing for the Warhammer 2nd Edition stuff since 2005. Their contract expired, and their 1000 Thrones campaign will supposedly be the last WFRP product.

Though GR handled the writing/design, Black Industries/Black Publishing, a division of GW did the Publishing.

A lot of people wish that Green Ronin could just carry the torch, but Games Workshop is always dis-interested enough to cease publishing, but not enough to keep from micromanaging other companies to death (like Hogshead).

Ah well.

Yes, GR is what I was thinking of.

Unbelievable. You have a 3rd party willing to pay you to do the job and you'd rather close it down. But then GW has always hated any product that doesn't require the constant buying of significant mini figures. That's why they've always treated Bloodbowl so shabbily.

Stephen

[Swordguy]

Yes, GR is what I was thinking of.

Unbelievable. You have a 3rd party willing to pay you to do the job and you'd rather close it down. But then GW has always hated any product that doesn't require the constant buying of significant mini figures. That's why they've always treated Bloodbowl so shabbily.

Stephen

Not to mention Necromunda, Mordehim, Battlefleet Gothic, Warmaster, Epic 40K, Rogue Trader, LotR...

[Crazy_Uncle_Doug]

Ah. Warhammer gaming never changes. It's one of my favorite RPGs that constantly gets creamed by Critical Hits.

I just hope the system has a a Fate Point or two left to use.

[SmartAlec]

That's why they've always treated Bloodbowl so shabbily.

Stephen

I was actually working on the shop floors of the company when there was a big Blood Bowl revival in... 2003? 2004? Something like that.

Anyhow, every third person, it seemed, used to walk into our store back then and ask, "When are you guys gonna bring back Blood Bowl?"

And we did!

And when those people came back, we said, "Look! It's back! We brought back Blood Bowl!" Boxed set and everything.

"Hurray!" They replied.

"So, are you going to buy it?"

"No, I already own it."

We did our best to get other people interested in it, but no-one ever really came to Blood Bowl nights. Why should they? They were having enough fun playing at home - or they'd put it aside. Hate to say it, man, but the smaller games are just that, small. But perfectly formed.

As to the whole get-'em-young strategies, the company hasn't really done that kind of thing excessively since 2001 and the Year of the Yellow Rat, when Pokemon arrived. When I was a staff member, there was a discreet ban on selling anything to anyone under 12, and anyone between 12-15 was treated with kid gloves as far as the salesmanship went. We'd give 'em a few pointers, show them how to get started in some small way, and if we could, we'd tell them and the parents what this was all about. Sometimes, of course, there were the rare exceptions. The kid prodigies who could kick ass at 14. They were fine. But, in general, recruiting kids cold stopped being company policy by the end of 2001.

I believe you can still visit the blackened bones of the sales manager in charge of said policies back then, if you have permission from the current sales manager. He's kept in an alcove hidden behind the Tyranid cabinet in the company museum.

[Crazy_Uncle_Doug]

I can see that. Blood Bowl was a fun game, and I bought the first and second iterations of that game. However, spending on that is limited. It's a simple game, and my spending on it was less than my spending on RPGs (which produce new material every 1-3 months), and much less than it would be if I played the mini-lines (which I haven't, as getting into that game can be prohibitively expensive. Plus, I wouldn't play 40k as there are no dwarves). I bought two teams, both editions I had (a Skaven team 1st, and a Wood Elf team 2nd). But I didn't see a need to buy more teams. If my friends wanted to play, they bought their own teams. It's been a while, and if it were re-released, I might buy it again, but once more, my spending on it will be limited.

Other games, like Talisman, will also be limited. Unlike many boardgames which tend to have more-or-less universal appeal, Talisman tends to appeal to a smaller niche group. That group has been growing as years pass, but it's still a niche that overlaps the RPG and Minis groups. Were I a game developer, I'd most likely spend more time developing the lines that are more likely to produce regular returns, than produce one-time games that produce lesser returns, and may even take from my other lines.

Business logic is a harsh mistress. They have to make decisions where the results of which could be months, often years later from when the decision is made. In the immediate term, we will be upset that one of our favorites is yet again getting the axe, but in the long term, who knows? WFRP, though never in regular release like DND, has remained in the gaming community for the past 20 years. This is more or less normal pattern, and it's likely that we will see it again in one form or another.