Stat batman

[shadow_archmagi]

Right. Stat out batman for me to use in my current campaign. I am still new to this game, and I'm aware there is much to learn, which is why I've been calling on the expertise of you wise sages of D&D.

...

I'm thinking it'd be at least part Monk for all the running across rooftops and fist fighting (as well as multi-attacks with those bat-merangs) (or possibly Swordsage. I don't actually have the sourcebook swordsage is in, so I know nothing about it other than that a lot of people say its better).

I'm wondering if/where I can find his equipment though...

Thoughts?

[Zincorium]

Artificer (Eberron campaign setting) is pretty much the end all be all of gadgetmaking, as well as being an extremely potent class if used correctly.

Gray Guard or Vigilante would represent the 'seek out and destroy evil' aspect of batman.


Strictly speaking, however, Batman was just a martial artist with a scary costume, some expensive gadgets, and psychosis.

[wgabrie]

Are we taking about THE Batman who is a comic book and television icon? If so, I think Batman has a high number in all of the ability scores.

• He fights, climbs, jumps, swims - Strength.
  
• He sneaks, picks locks, uses rope(grappling hook), more... - Dexterity.
  
• He may or may not have a lower Constitution because he can be caught by the villain with a crazy, overcomplicated trap. But has gas masks and other stuff to avoid this.
  
• Intelligents: He has been known to do forgery, search crime scenes, decipher scripts, knowledge of the week on almost everything. Although he also has a bat computer so it may be that his isn't so high.
  
• Wisdom may be high for listen, sense motive, spot and survival. Than again it may be lower because new super villains continue to emerge from "accidents" which batman doesn't seem to foresee.
  
• High Charisma for disguise, bluff, and Intimidate checks.

I don't know how you would get this build in either a stat buy or dice roll. You would likely need at least a 15 in strength and/or dexterity to begin. Plus, You will need to find a class that has high skill points per level and/or pump up intelligents. Batman is an everything kind of guy. And trying to focus on everything in D&D is hard.

[Arbitrarity]

Factotum 20 with many FoI's? He does everything, because he is INSPIRED!

Except he has spellcasting, healing, turning, mad fighting skills, mad skills, ETC. He doesn't need great str or dex though, with brains over brawn, and cunning brilliance helps with fighting.

[LCR]

I'd say "Vigilante" fits Batman. Don't remember the book, though.

[Xyk]

I'd say "Vigilante" fits Batman. Don't remember the book, though.

Vigilante is in Complete Adventurer and is a PrC. I don't particularly like it as batman, due to its casting.

[Kurald Galain]

I'd think that to stat Batman, you'd either need some rules for tinkering and devices (d20 World of Warcraft comes to mind, although Bruce Wayne is hardly a goblin) or give him a number of spells or invocations and re-fluff those to be devices.

[Draz74]

Before ToB, I thought Batman would have to be some kind of Fighter/Monk/Scout/Shadowdancer.

But a pure Swordsage fits him just as well. I'd go with that.

Oh, and don't think of him as an Artificer. He has a decent Craft skill, but he doesn't really do the hardest stuff when it comes to making his equipment. Now, Lucius Fox? That's an Artificer (and a very important, friendly high-level NPC in Batman's campaign). I admit, this is based mainly on the "Batman Begins" version of the hero, while Fox hasn't always been such a major Batman character before. But I'm still in favor of it.

Edit: Oh yeah, and I agree that part of the reason he's so uber is because he "happened" to roll at least a 14 on every ability score.

[Snadgeros]

Batman would most definitely be a fighter/monk with the justicar prestige class. The monk levels are for his mastery of martial arts and the fighter levels for all of his other combat styles: all focused on unarmed combat, bolos, and batarangs. The justicar is perfect for him, since it basically gives him non-lethal sneak attack and allows him to capture enemies alive at no penalties. Naturally, he used his monk levels to get access to hide and move silently, and maxed them out as soon as he could. I imagine some of his equipment probably gives hefty circumstance bonuses to these checks (solid black cape for nighttime stealth? Yes please.)

[GoC]

More important than the man himself is his equipment.

I'd say he has an 18 in Str with those humanly impossible feets he pulls off.
An 18 in Con because he can walk away after getting hit by guys who throw trucks.
An 18 in Dex because lets face it, his agility is better than that of an olympic gymnast.
A 14 in Wis because of his high spot/search/listen checks
A 14 in Int because he's pretty damn smart
A 12 in Cha because despite his poor people skills he's excellent at understanding the criminal mind and is very good at gather information and intimidate checks.

He's probably CR 7-8.

[bosssmiley]

Batman: Wiz12+, PrCs to taste.

[Anteros]

More important than the man himself is his equipment.

I'd say he has an 18 in Str with those humanly impossible feets he pulls off.
An 18 in Con because he can walk away after getting hit by guys who throw trucks.
An 18 in Dex because lets face it, his agility is better than that of an olympic gymnast.
A 14 in Wis because of his high spot/search/listen checks
A 14 in Int because he's pretty damn smart
A 12 in Cha because despite his poor people skills he's excellent at understanding the criminal mind and is very good at gather information and intimidate checks.

He's probably CR 7-8.

Batman is listed as being the greatest detective of all time...I think you'd need 18's in both wisdom and int. Also, Batman is very persuasive when it comes to intimidating criminals, and Bruce Wayne is very savvy...to the point of being able to run one of the biggest corporations in the world...

I'd give him an 18 in everything really, but since that isn't really feasible, I'd say prioritize the thinking stats over the physical, because while he is in extremely good shape, he is foremost a detective.

[Seatbelt]

High ability scores can be to somee extent replaced with ranks in intimidate. He can have a 12 or 10 in charisma and still be intimidating or good at gather information.

[CASTLEMIKE]

32 point buy LN, Very Wealthy Human Rogue -1 for maximum base skill points, Monk -2, Ninja -1, Scout -1, ECS Master Inquisitive -5 (Special Contacts: Commissioner Gordon & Superman), FRCS Jordain Vizier -1, Factotum -3, Variaint Psion Seer -1 with the Action Point feats in a non action point game and non flashy powers like Call to Mind and Force Shield, Master Thrower -2, Swordsage -1, Crusader -1, Warblade -1 (The best level 5 or lower maneuvers to personal taste taking advantage of Rapid Recovery method since Crusader dip and Swordsage dip will fill a lot of manuever prerequisites).

Instead of 5 Master Inquisitive (World's Greatest Detective) levels possibly a single level dip into Master Inquisitive with other dips into Chamelon and Master of Masks since Jordain Vizier, Factotum and the Seer levels really augment the detective skills. Marshal -1 Motivate Aura Intelligence would also be good.

Ascetic Rogue feat and other feats to taste especially extra Fonts of Inspiration.

Factotum -3 allows the Batman to do amazing physical feats without 18s.

[Hzurr]

High ability scores can be to some extent replaced with ranks in intimidate. He can have a 12 or 10 in charisma and still be intimidating or good at gather information.

It's not just intimidate. He has to do all sorts of cha-based skills as Bruce Wayne (Oh crap. Spoiler Alert: Bruce Wayne is Batman). It's not that he has poor people skills, it's that as Batman, he chooses not to care about most people. But as Bruce, he is the most people-friendly person ever.

Also, it's not that he has a few ranks in intimidate or gather information. He is insanely good at intimidating and gathering info. It's a fairly normal experience for criminals to laugh in the face of Superman or Green Lantern when they try to interrogate, only to spill their guts after 5 minutes with batman. As far as gather info goes, there's a quote in one book ("Hush Part 1" I think), where Superman remarks that even though he has super-hearing, super-sight, and can get to places at Super-speed, Batman can still find out things before he does.

The reason that Batman is Batman, is because he rolled straight 18s. Actually, the two scores where he probably doesn't have 18s are Str and Con. But yeah, all the mental stats are nothing but 18.

But yeah, the way I'd always thought of him being stated before was rogue/fighter/justicar, but I don't know most of the ToB stuff, so that might change it.

[Danin]

Being a fan of Batman I feel the need to point a few things out:

First of all, Batman is a scientist. Theres a reason he's made so many gadgets and is smart enough to use people's weaknesses against them (See: Batman vs Superman)

Second of all, although Batman himself might not be too charming, Bruce Wane is. Being that he is very popular at social functions and great at dealing with high level representitives I think it would be impossible for him to have a low charisma score.

Batman is practical, level headed and doesnt let his emotions get in the way of his reasoning. In addition to this he is very observent. I would think a high wisdom score suits him.

Although he can stand up from being hit like a truck and keep fighting, his primary means of winning a fight is, you guessed it, not getting hit. He definately has a higher dex score than con.

Although strong, Bat man doesnt go around and one-punch everything. He relies on getting a number of well placed shots in on anyone tougher than your average mugger with a hand gun. His dex is likely higher than his strength.

Based off all of this information I would likely stat him at:

Str 16
Dex 18
Con 16
Int 17 - 18 (Needs a good number of skill points)
Wis 17 - 18
Char 16 - 17

As to his class? The fact that he doesnt cast spells and deals primairly non leathal damage fits the Monk / Justicar prestigue class fits hit quite well. The only problem with that is that it requires him being lawful, something that I would contest. Although he turns people into the lawful authorities to punish them and doesnt just kill those he thinks have done wrong, there have been many times where he has broken the law without hesitation in order to do what he felt was the right thing. I would place him quite firmly at neutral good with lawful good tendencies.

He also needs a fair degree of skill points and since he is a detective I think that the Bloodhound prestigue class from CA fits him perfectly. Given his ability to keep fighting even while tied up or bound the 8th level ability that grants freedom of movement a number of round a day equal to his wisdom modifier seems appropriate. As this class can be entered after level 4 provided you have a full base attack bonus base class all we need is one with a fair number of skill points. Swashbuckler fits this roll fairly well as it has decent skills and most of the important Batman-type skills. Move silently, survival and Gather information would have to be taken as cross class skills to meed the requirements for Bloodhound but you would be able to gain all the needed ranks by level 5. This build would also grant weapon finess to take advantage of his high dex score and add int to damage (as represetitive of his ability to strike opponents where they're weakest). After all this we end up with a build something like this:

Swashbuckler 4 / Bloodhound 8
Feats:
Human - Endurance
Swashbuckler - Weapon finess
L1 - Improved unarmed strike
L3 - Dodge
L6 - Mobility
L9 - Spring attack
L12 - Bounding assault

He would be able to drain strength, have a good number of skill points, move quickly while hiding and moving silently, deal non leathal damage without penalties and track down whoever he is hunting without fail. Hardly an optimal build but being level 13 in a city full of similarly non optimized people with only a few villians (Who are likely CR 9ish) he cand eal some hefty damage.

Well, those are my two cents any way. Forgive the long rambling post riddled with spelling errors, I'm not in a mood to fix em.

I so totally didn't realize how long of a post this was.

[Hzurr]

The only problem with that is that it requires him being lawful, something that I would contest. Although he turns people into the lawful authorities to punish them and doesnt just kill those he thinks have done wrong, there have been many times where he has broken the law without hesitation in order to do what he felt was the right thing. I would place him quite firmly at neutral good with lawful good tendencies.

I agree 100% with everything else you put except this.

Batman is hella Lawful. While he is, technically, a vigilante, his greatest concern in the world is justice. He has a personal code, and a personal set of ethics that he follows so strictly it's terrifying. Just because you might not always follow the written definition of the published law does not make you unlawful.

Also, him being good is...arguable, to say the least (especially if you look at the way he was done in the late 80s-present rather than the old 50s-70s batman). He actually states this at one point. He's fighting with Superman (again), and he states that "Deep down, Clark's essentially a good person...and deep down, I'm not."

So yeah, I'd definitely say Lawful Neutral. Some good leanings, but Lawful Neutral.

From the SRD:

A lawful neutral character acts as law, tradition, or a personal code directs her. Order and organization are paramount to her. She may believe in personal order and live by a code or standard

[edit] Oh my. I'm such a nerd. *hangs head in shame* [/edit]

[Danin]

I agree 100% with everything else you put except this.

Batman is hella Lawful. While he is, technically, a vigilante, his greatest concern in the world is justice. He has a personal code, and a personal set of ethics that he follows so strictly it's terrifying. Just because you might not always follow the written definition of the published law does not make you unlawful.

Also, him being good is...arguable, to say the least (especially if you look at the way he was done in the late 80s-present rather than the old 50s-70s batman). He actually states this at one point. He's fighting with Superman (again), and he states that "Deep down, Clark's essentially a good person...and deep down, I'm not."
[/i][/edit]

Well I am a firm believer in the ability to be lawful good and follow a personal code, I'm not entirely convinced Batman is Lawful. Although he does have a basic personal code (He doesnt use guns, for example, even when it would be much safer to do so) he sees most rules as mutable. Even though he frequently supports the local police he is more than willing to go against their wishes to do what he thinks is right. I can definately see the case for him being lawful and am indeed on the fence about it but I feel that he treads the line too closely to truly be considered lawful good. Remember, a person following a set of convictions that it is truly the right thing to liberate people from prision, regardless of what they did as it is wrong to limit someone's personal freedoms still follows a strict code but would likely be considered chaotic in nature. If simply following a set of values or a strict code is all it takes to be lawful then this sets a precident for a lot more alignment issues.

As to Batman being neutral I'm afraid I don't agree. Although he takes some obviously unplesant means to his ends, he does not use these as an easy way out. If he did using weapons (more specifically, guns) would not be a problem for him. Although he considers violent means an option he refrains from it if possible. He does not kill and he follows an unquestioned moral code to do whats right. I think that the quote you provided is more based around a personal insecurity problem. While he sees Superman as a paragon of virtue he... isn't. I don't believe that this is enough to warrant him being neutral. Maybe not as good as superman, but definately not neutral.

Now this is turning into another alignment thread. Based around batman no less. Fun. Regardless it doesn't change my oppinion about his class much (although Justicar would also be a logical fit as well. Monk to me? Not so much).

[Chronos]

Although strong, Bat man doesnt go around and one-punch everything. He relies on getting a number of well placed shots in on anyone tougher than your average mugger with a hand gun. His dex is likely higher than his strength.

What's more, on the occasions when he does hit for a lot of damage, it's usually striking from ambush, in the sort of situation where he'd be eligible for Sneak Attack or similar. He's definitely more rogue-ish than fighter-ish, though he may well have levels in both.

[shadow_archmagi]

Ah, but what about Lawful Evil? You see, Lawful simply means you follow a code. It by no means states that the local code must be followed. If Lawful McLawly Law Good Law walked into Orcland, where rule #1 is you have to eat the nearest baby, he'd never follow it. Sure, its the police telling him to, but he's following his own code first.

I thank you all though. Low STR, high DEX, high INT and WIS, with a slightly above average charisma and his batman suit. (Batman suit gives massive bonuses to hide and intimidate.)

[wgabrie]

I think Batman is Chaotic Good. I reason that Joker is Chaotic Evil and I have heard of Batman and Joker being described as two sides of the same coin.

[Lolzords]

Hmm, Batman seems like an acrobatic rogue/Justicar, to me.

[Jothki]

My way to answer the Lawful/Chaotic issue is to ask whether Batman has any faith that his society could handle itself (or could be somehow changed to do so) without his personal intervention. Does he see himself as a product of society that could ultimately be replaced if necessary, or as an outsider fixing problems that his society could never handle by themselves? Does he view his vision of Gotham or Gotham's vision of Gotham as more important?

[shadow_archmagi]

So, can anyone actually provide a prospective character sheet for us as an NPC in a party of three to five level 5s (and rapidly increasing.)?

On one hand, I'd be fine with him being a bit overpowering for them, but on the other, I suspect they may shoot first and ask questions later "Ah! The orcs hired a ninja! FIREBALL HIM!

[RTP]

Batman is Lawful Good: That is stated in Complete Scoundrel (printed: January 2007) and as such it is TEH fact.

[Danin]

Batman is Lawful Good: That is stated in Complete Scoundrel (printed: January 2007) and as such it is TEH fact.

If everything that was ever printed was "TEH fact" then I need to write a new book.

Everything in those books represents someone else's perfectly valid opinion. Personally I'm on the fence about his alignment but the fact that is was written in a book isn't going to help persuade me either way.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Personally, I think he's got to have levels of Rogue, probably going Nightsong Enforcer, and has maxed ranks in UMD, with a LOT of toys, and a GM who threw the WBL guidelines out the window.

As far as stats? Nothing under a 16, but nothing over an 18. He represents the height of everything a human being can attain. As superman said: He's just a human, the most dangerous human on the planet.

[Snadgeros]

Hmm....with new evidence presented, I would like to expand my theory.

I'm not sure of the level, but I'm pretty positive that Batman is a monk with the justicar prestige class. His attacks are usually sneak attacks, he goes for nonlethal damage most of the time, and he's focused on hand-to-hand combat. As for stats:

Str: 14- He's stronger than most people, but not to superhuman levels. His effectiveness in combat relies mostly on well-placed blows and strategy.

Dex: 18- Without a doubt. He's probably got weapon finesse to go with it too. How many times has he taken down an enemy twice as strong as him by outpacing him? Far too many to count.

Int: 18- He's the ultimate detective, and invented most of his gadgets himself. 'Nuff said.

Wis: 14- He's very observant and rational, but not perfect. Villains such as the Joker have taken advantage of this on multiple occassions. Better than average, but it's still a weak spot.

Con: 14- Batman can take a punch very well, but he's not built for sapping the damage; he's meant to AVOID it. Sure, that giant hulking monster just punched him in the stomach and he survived, but he sure as hell got winded.

Cha: 12- Bruce Wayne is fairly charismatic and likable, but mainly for his celebrity status. He's nowhere near universally loved, but he's good enough to get by.

For skills, I'd say he's definitely got ranks in assorted Knowledges, tumble, jump, intimidate, hide, move silently, spot, listen, disguise, sense motive, gather information, escape artist, climb, and balance. Wow that's a lot.

So we've got a monk/justicar with ridiculously high stats and more skill points than anyone could ever have. Everything seems to be covered here except for all those skills. Anyone have any idea how he could have ranks in all of that, especially since some of those are cross-class?

[TheDarkOne]

Batman's Alignment

[serpent615]

you guys DO realize that in reality, he IS a ninja rite? And the whole disappearing, running up walls/across roofs, acrobatics, jump bonuses, shurikens, and evasion(he might have it) are IN the ninja base class.

i say he's just a ninja with nice stuff...REALY nice stuff.