Anti-Retro Sterotypes?

[shadow_archmagi]

So, the traditional paladin is a kind, loving, just person who combines all the best aspects of barney and aragorn.
At the same time, we have these people who want to be DIFFERENT, and make the anti-paladin sterotype, the "Holier-than-thou" Mikoish type.

In much the same manner, we have the two rogues:

1. The one who is apparently absolutely at ease with the party, never steals from them, and tends to give to the poor what she steals from the rich.
2. The one plotting to kill the party and take all their stuff, but can't for some flimsy reason.

I could go on and on for every class. Which do you prefer? What is the alternative?

[Tengu]

The archetype that fits the party more smoothly is always better. Period.

[Zincorium]

The only thing that distinguishes the examples you have are whether they're pissing people off or not. If you're not pissing off the other people at the table, they're going to like you a lot more, I suspect.

And furthermore, the Miko-esque paladin and the dastardly rogue are the stereotypes. You seem to be under the impression it's the reverse, would you care to explain why and perhaps elaborate on what you're talking about?

[Kioran]

The only thing that distinguishes the examples you have are whether they're pissing people off or not. If you're not pissing off the other people at the table, they're going to like you a lot more, I suspect.

And furthermore, the Miko-esque paladin and the dastardly rogue are the stereotypes. You seem to be under the impression it's the reverse, would you care to explain why and perhaps elaborate on what you're talking about?

It´s because today everyone is avoiding those stereotypes so hard that, at least in some circles, embracing the stereotype is actually unexpected. That said, the "Thief-Rogue" is an abomination, and the smite-machine only marginally better. A Miko-din (relatively intolerant towards people with lower standards and a bit pragmatic) is okay........

[RTGoodman]

It´s because today everyone is avoiding those stereotypes so hard that, at least in some circles, embracing the stereotype is actually unexpected.

That's not true for every group. Or, at least, it isn't for my gaming group. In fact, the whole "Rogue who wants to kill everyone in the party and take their stuff" is so prevalent in groups that I've tried to play with that my roommate/DM actually had to put in a houserule at the beginning of our most recent game that, if you kill a party member in their sleep or steal their stuff, rocks fall and you die. I mean, when he told us that, one guy literally said, "Well, I'm a Rogue - what else am I supposed to do, then, if I can't steal from or kill them?"

And he was completely serious.

Apparently, at least in the groups I know, people just can't get away from the stereotypes.

EDIT: And I don't know about Paladins - the people I play with refuse to play Good-aligned characters, and usually try to make "Chaotic Neutral" (i.e., Chaotic Stupid) or flat-out Evil characters, even when told it's an all-Good aligned campaign.

[The_Blue_Sorceress]

EDIT: And I don't know about Paladins - the people I play with refuse to play Good-aligned characters, and usually try to make "Chaotic Neutral" (i.e., Chaotic Stupid) or flat-out Evil characters, even when told it's an all-Good aligned campaign.

I feel an great pity for you.

-Blue

[Starbuck_II]

EDIT: And I don't know about Paladins - the people I play with refuse to play Good-aligned characters, and usually try to make "Chaotic Neutral" (i.e., Chaotic Stupid) or flat-out Evil characters, even when told it's an all-Good aligned campaign.

It is possible:
a. They have bad DMs that made being good really sucky (Paladin sucky).

b. They want more freedom

c. They just like being evil.

Reasons:
a. Might as well cut out middle man and be nuetral if good can't be held.

b. Lawful is restrictive (or implues it in PHB).

c. They see evil as best. No alignment issues, can do any action..etc relates to freedom.

[UglyPanda]

Some stereotypes are disruptive to the class's image, while some are disruptive to gameplay. Not all of them are bad, though. Some of these may not apply to your group, some may apply too well.

Common class stereotypes:

Barbarian
-Angry tribal berserker
-Angry drunken berserker.

Bard
-Sword-wielding rock star
-Singing idiot

Cleric
-Healbot pacificist
-CoDzilla
-Always trying to keep DM from removing class-features paranoid schizophrenic.

Druid
-Animal-loving nature lover
-CoDzilla
-Weirdo who never leaves animal form

Fighter
-Battle-hardened mercenary
-Retired military man
-Meat shield to protect casters
-Guy who hits stuff with metal sticks and hopes they bleed

Monk
-Pacifist who is always thinking of the orphans
-Bruce Lee
-Not as good as the fighter

Paladin
-Ultimate paragon of good, trying to protect the innocent. Might lose class features if he annoys the DM.
-Ultimate paragon of justice, trying to smite everything possible evil. Definitely going to lose class features.
-Reformed bad guy trying to atone. Lost class features in back-story, unlikely to lose them again.
-Apathetic paladin, always conveniently looks away when the other PCs pull out thumbscrews.

Ranger
-Aragorn
-Nature-loving druid-lite

Rogue
-Steals only from enemies.
-Tomb-raiding skill monkey.
-Steals from own party in the night.
-Steals in the same way a lawyer might, with contracts.

Sorcerer
-Burns down entire forests due to overzealous use of fireball

Wizard
-Squishy caster
-Batman

[Spiryt]

Common class stereotypes:

Barbarian
-Angry tribal berserker
-Angry drunken berserker.
-Dwarf

Cleric
-Healbot pacificist
-CoDzilla
-Always trying to keep DM from removing class-features paranoid schizophrenic.
-Dwarf

Fighter
-Battle-hardened mercenary
-Retired military man
-Meat shield to protect casters
-Guy who hits stuff with metal sticks and hopes they bleed
-Dwarf

Paladin
-Ultimate paragon of good, trying to protect the innocent. Might lose class features if he annoys the DM.
-Ultimate paragon of justice, trying to smite everything possible evil. Definitely going to lose class features.
-Reformed bad guy trying to atone. Lost class features in back-story, unlikely to lose them again.
-Apathetic paladin, always conveniently looks away when the other PCs pull out thumbscrews.
-Dwarf

Fixed. (Althought dwarf stereotype quite often overlie with other stereotypes. Like Angry drunken berserker)

[its_all_ogre]

yeah dwarf can be added to all classes.
i have never seen a dwarf rp'd well beyond 'i do stuff with weapons and armour and runes are so much better than magic'

[Telonius]

So, the traditional paladin is a kind, loving, just person who combines all the best aspects of barney and aragorn.

I'm a little curious - which Barney did you mean? Fife? Gumble? Rubble? the Dinosaur? Four very different kinds of Paladin.

[horseboy]

That's not true for every group. Or, at least, it isn't for my gaming group. In fact, the whole "Rogue who wants to kill everyone in the party and take their stuff" is so prevalent in groups that I've tried to play with that my roommate/DM actually had to put in a houserule at the beginning of our most recent game that, if you kill a party member in their sleep or steal their stuff, rocks fall and you die. I mean, when he told us that, one guy literally said, "Well, I'm a Rogue - what else am I supposed to do, then, if I can't steal from or kill them?"

And he was completely serious.

Apparently, at least in the groups I know, people just can't get away from the stereotypes.

EDIT: And I don't know about Paladins - the people I play with refuse to play Good-aligned characters, and usually try to make "Chaotic Neutral" (i.e., Chaotic Stupid) or flat-out Evil characters, even when told it's an all-Good aligned campaign.

Reason number ,oh, four bajillion and eleven why I heavily discourage thief/rogues in games I'm in.