The Alignment Check Thread --- What's the Alignment of X

[Charles Phipps]

This is a thread to handle those funny alignment questions we always have. Basically, name a character then let someone else give their opinion on why they think that person has the alignment they suggest. Everyone has slightly different views on what Alignment means but this thread will hopefully generate lots of discussion.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Thog. I love flamewars.

[Dr Bwaa]

GOOD- Devotion to others, concern for others/society/the greater good over concern for the self.

EVIL- Concern for self-benefit over all else, without regard to the greater good or what may be good for others.

LAWFUL- Dedication to order, to justice*, and predictability.

CHAOTIC- Rejection of order of any sort, promotion of free will over all else.

NEUTRAL- Neutral on one axis means an accentuation of the opposite axis. For instance, a NE character thinks only for himself and behaves however is appropriate to further his own ends in whatever situation he is currently. This character is evil to the very core, with few or no motivations other than self-preservation and getting ahead in the world.

[EvilElitest]

Thog. I love flamewars.

CE. He is chaotic and does evil things. Still a nice bloke
from
EE

[osyluth]

Sabine.

So most of this thread will be discussing the alignment of OotS characters?

[Thanatos 51-50]

Sabine.

So most of this thread will be discussing the alignment of OotS characters?

Lawful Evil.
Shes ordered, consitent and clearly part of a clear heirarchy.
Oh, and shes Evil. By benefit of being an Evil Outsider.

Also: check Sam Fisher - because hes NOT a OotS charecter.

[Fax Celestis]

This is my standard alignment argument answer:

[Tengu]

You can be nice and evil, or a good prick. Yeah, I know that this poster is supposed to be tongue-in-the-cheek.

[Ascension]

I had a hard time deciding how to describe the alignment of my current character. I'll give you a brief background for him (as brief as I can make it, that is), tell you what I chose, and explain my reasoning, but then I'd like to hear your opinions.

Velkin grew up in a very poor section of the capital of a very corrupt and oppressive kingdom. His father left shortly after finding out his mother was pregnant, and she was generally pretty susceptible to disease, making it very hard for her to provide even the basic needs of life for her son. As soon as he grew old enough, he fell in with a gang of thieves, stealing out of sheer necessity and using every bit of profit he made to give some semblance of comfort to his ailing mother. She naively assumed that he had gotten an "honest" job, and he didn't think it necessary to correct her.

After some time he got caught by the city guard and imprisoned in a Newgate-esque facility. His mother was absolutely devastated by the news that her son had been stealing the things she thought he had earned. After a few unhappy visits, she stopped coming to visit him. He, distressed by her reaction and not wanting to worry her any more, refrained from attempting to escape.

Eventually he was offered the chance to work towards his release by joining the military. Hoping to patch up his relationship with his mother by taking on "honest" work, he jumped at the opportunity despite his intense hatred of the very government he would soon be working for. Due to his skill at stealth he was chosen to become a scout, and was placed in the care of a veteran scout both for training purposes and so the trusted veteran could keep a close eye on the criminal.

For his mother's sake, he campaigned with the army for a while, but eventually he received the fateful news... his mother had succumbed to her illness and died. With no more motivation for sticking around, he deserted at the next possible opportunity.

On the run and in need of a quick ticket out of his homeland he joined up with a passing group of adventurers under an assumed name. He traveled with them for a while until they ventured into a dungeon far deadlier than any of them had expected. With his companions dropping like flies around him, he decided it was the proper time to beat a hasty retreat and headed for the exit, leaving them to their fate. In a rare moment of clumsiness he took a tumble into an open portal on his way back through the labyrinth and found himself dumped unceremoniously into the midst of Sigil.

Uncertain of where he was or indeed what in the world had happened to him, he did at least recognize it as a very important city, and if there's one thing a street-smart rogue knows how to handle, it's a city. He lurked in the taverns until he could pick up a smattering of the cant and at least a vague understanding of the culture of the city itself.

Armed with this knowledge and a set of new clothes in a fashionable style, he bluffed his way into the home of an elderly but wealthy widow. At first he intended simply to use her for her money and get out, but he saw something of his mother in her feebleness, and decided to do what he could to make her life comfortable. At one of her parties he met a certain old man, an ex-Doomguard member who had left after the chaos of the Faction War. He was telling wildly exaggerated stories of the good old days, and Velkin hung on every word. While at the time he thought the old man more than a little crazy, the memory stayed with him.

After several years, the old woman died. Velkin spared no expense in making sure that she spent her last few months as painlessly as possible. He was able to give her what he couldn't give his mother... a peaceful death... and he took great joy in it. After her funeral he spent several days in bittersweet reflection. During this time he thought back to the old man's stories of the Doomguard. He reflected on the inevitable deaths of his wife and mother, and realized that the Doomguard was right. It is the nature of the universe to decay and gradually die. He fully accepted this, but he did not view the inevitable end in a nihilistic fashion, nor did he conclude that the end must be hastened. He dedicated himself instead to doing whatever he possibly could to ensure that the dying multiverse had a peaceful end, devoid of suffering.

Velkin thought that he might help achieve this end by working with the more liberal factions of the Doomguard, and, after some searching, contacted the old man to see if he could tell him where to find the remnants of the Doomguard. The old man explained several times that he had broken all his ties with them after the destruction of the Armory, but Velkin continued to press him for information. Eventually the old man got fed up with all the questions and gave him a false lead, telling him that it was a test of his worthiness to join the faction. This false lead is what led him to join up with the rest of our party. He thinks he's adventuring with them as part of a complex initiation ritual, but really he's just been deceived.

His not-really-affiliation with the Doomguard gives him something of their grudge against clerics. He isn't fully opposed to magical healing, as it can help to soothe the pain of a suffering individual, but any sort of resurrection or even healing from the very brink of death upsets him. He's even more upset by undead (although his dependence on precision-based damage for his class abilities means he can't really do much against them ).

Most of what he has seen of law has been either in the form of his homeland's ruthless adherence to order or Her Serenity's harsh judgments. He has a strong streak of individualism and a general distrust of strong governments in general.

His grander motives are altruistic, but he has a bit of a larcenous streak and a certain degree of amorality when it comes to achieving his goals. He can be somewhat cowardly at times, and is not above abandoning a cause or quest if it looks like it's a hopeless endeavor. He wants to do good, at least in theory, but aside from a high degree of respect and concern for the elderly, diseased, and/or dying, he holds to no strong moral code.

I ended up calling him chaotic neutral, but that was before I really started becoming active on this forum and hearing how CN players are often associated with the "I can do whatever I want! Heehee!" attitude. I don't ever want him to fall into that particular stereotype. Chaotic and neutral he may be, but he certainly has standards. I almost went with CG, but he's abandoned both an army and a party of adventurers in the past, and desertion isn't exactly a good trait.

Anyway, what would you call him?

[puppyavenger]

I had a hard time deciding how to describe the alignment of my current character. I'll give you a brief background for him (as brief as I can make it, that is), tell you what I chose, and explain my reasoning, but then I'd like to hear your opinions.

Velkin grew up in a very poor section of the capital of a very corrupt and oppressive kingdom. His father left shortly after finding out his mother was pregnant, and she was generally pretty susceptible to disease, making it very hard for her to provide even the basic needs of life for her son. As soon as he grew old enough, he fell in with a gang of thieves, stealing out of sheer necessity and using every bit of profit he made to give some semblance of comfort to his ailing mother. She naively assumed that he had gotten an "honest" job, and he didn't think it necessary to correct her.

After some time he got caught by the city guard and imprisoned in a Newgate-esque facility. His mother was absolutely devastated by the news that her son had been stealing the things she thought he had earned. After a few unhappy visits, she stopped coming to visit him. He, distressed by her reaction and not wanting to worry her any more, refrained from attempting to escape.

Eventually he was offered the chance to work towards his release by joining the military. Hoping to patch up his relationship with his mother by taking on "honest" work, he jumped at the opportunity despite his intense hatred of the very government he would soon be working for. Due to his skill at stealth he was chosen to become a scout, and was placed in the care of a veteran scout both for training purposes and so the trusted veteran could keep a close eye on the criminal.

For his mother's sake, he campaigned with the army for a while, but eventually he received the fateful news... his mother had succumbed to her illness and died. With no more motivation for sticking around, he deserted at the next possible opportunity.

On the run and in need of a quick ticket out of his homeland he joined up with a passing group of adventurers under an assumed name. He traveled with them for a while until they ventured into a dungeon far deadlier than any of them had expected. With his companions dropping like flies around him, he decided it was the proper time to beat a hasty retreat and headed for the exit, leaving them to their fate. In a rare moment of clumsiness he took a tumble into an open portal on his way back through the labyrinth and found himself dumped unceremoniously into the midst of Sigil.

Uncertain of where he was or indeed what in the world had happened to him, he did at least recognize it as a very important city, and if there's one thing a street-smart rogue knows how to handle, it's a city. He lurked in the taverns until he could pick up a smattering of the cant and at least a vague understanding of the culture of the city itself.

Armed with this knowledge and a set of new clothes in a fashionable style, he bluffed his way into the home of an elderly but wealthy widow. At first he intended simply to use her for her money and get out, but he saw something of his mother in her feebleness, and decided to do what he could to make her life comfortable. At one of her parties he met a certain old man, an ex-Doomguard member who had left after the chaos of the Faction War. He was telling wildly exaggerated stories of the good old days, and Velkin hung on every word. While at the time he thought the old man more than a little crazy, the memory stayed with him.

After several years, the old woman died. Velkin spared no expense in making sure that she spent her last few months as painlessly as possible. He was able to give her what he couldn't give his mother... a peaceful death... and he took great joy in it. After her funeral he spent several days in bittersweet reflection. During this time he thought back to the old man's stories of the Doomguard. He reflected on the inevitable deaths of his wife and mother, and realized that the Doomguard was right. It is the nature of the universe to decay and gradually die. He fully accepted this, but he did not view the inevitable end in a nihilistic fashion, nor did he conclude that the end must be hastened. He dedicated himself instead to doing whatever he possibly could to ensure that the dying multiverse had a peaceful end, devoid of suffering.

Velkin thought that he might help achieve this end by working with the more liberal factions of the Doomguard, and, after some searching, contacted the old man to see if he could tell him where to find the remnants of the Doomguard. The old man explained several times that he had broken all his ties with them after the destruction of the Armory, but Velkin continued to press him for information. Eventually the old man got fed up with all the questions and gave him a false lead, telling him that it was a test of his worthiness to join the faction. This false lead is what led him to join up with the rest of our party. He thinks he's adventuring with them as part of a complex initiation ritual, but really he's just been deceived.

His not-really-affiliation with the Doomguard gives him something of their grudge against clerics. He isn't fully opposed to magical healing, as it can help to soothe the pain of a suffering individual, but any sort of resurrection or even healing from the very brink of death upsets him. He's even more upset by undead (although his dependence on precision-based damage for his class abilities means he can't really do much against them ).

Most of what he has seen of law has been either in the form of his homeland's ruthless adherence to order or Her Serenity's harsh judgments. He has a strong streak of individualism and a general distrust of strong governments in general.

His grander motives are altruistic, but he has a bit of a larcenous streak and a certain degree of amorality when it comes to achieving his goals. He can be somewhat cowardly at times, and is not above abandoning a cause or quest if it looks like it's a hopeless endeavor. He wants to do good, at least in theory, but aside from a high degree of respect and concern for the elderly, diseased, and/or dying, he holds to no strong moral code.

I ended up calling him chaotic neutral, but that was before I really started becoming active on this forum and hearing how CN players are often associated with the "I can do whatever I want! Heehee!" attitude. I don't ever want him to fall into that particular stereotype. Chaotic and neutral he may be, but he certainly has standards. I almost went with CG, but he's abandoned both an army and a party of adventurers in the past, and desertion isn't exactly a good trait.

Anyway, what would you call him?

chaotic neutrel, congratulations, you did it right.

[Charles Phipps]

You're welcome to post any being you want to test the alignment for, OOTS or otherwise.

For example, Darth Vader

LE.

Emperor Palpatine, NE

and so on.

with an explanation why.

[Jayngfet]

what alignment, is mario, he does rescue princesses and such but he does kill anything in his way, motive for being there or not

[Charles Phipps]

what alignment, is mario, he does rescue princesses and such but he does kill anything in his way, motive for being there or not

I tend to think that Mario is this bizarre Davinchi like savant. Despite his overweight and tubby appearance, the man is a Renaissance Man. The guy is a race car drive, airplane pilot, champion swimmer, champion jumper, Doctor, pro-golf player, Boxing Referee, and able to fix his own toilet. Mario is clearly dedicated to rescuing the Princess and slaying the Dragon which would imply LG but his absent mindedness about his profession, constant wanderings, numerous romantic adventures (he's got like what? 5 Princesses?), and addiction to hallucinogenic flowers/stars/mushrooms say to me Chaotic Good.

[Kurald Galain]

what alignment, is mario, he does rescue princesses and such but he does kill anything in his way, motive for being there or not

Lawful evil, then.

What about Sonic, though? He has a thing for Chaos emeralds, and he doesn't actually kill anything, he just, er, breaks the robotic exterior shell to let the cute fuzzy animal inside escape. Or something.

[Tempest Fennac]

I'd say Chaotic Good being as Sonic likes to help people, and he doesn't seem to like following orders. How about Albert Wesker from the Residant Evil games?

[Zincorium]

You can be nice and evil, or a good prick. Yeah, I know that this poster is supposed to be tongue-in-the-cheek.

It's tongue and cheek, BUT really being nice or being a prick is all anybody else should care about.

Are you a good friend? Do you hold up your end of the bargain? Then aren't people going to treat you well in return and back you up? Even if you secretly sacrifice kittens to the elder gods?

On the other side, notice how the other paladins didn't even like Miko? Despite her being good?

[Learnedguy]

Blah blah

Velkin the rogue.

I'd say Chaotic neutral as well. The character shows very strong individualism, and he doesn't really obey authority (if it does, it's out of love for a close person and necessity).

Neutral because even if he certainly have a very good streak, he lacks the conviction to always do it properly. Velkin lacks the dedication to do good properly.

Characters evolve though, and I would be surprised if Velkin would more and more start to lean towards lawful good-ish actions, of all things .

All in all, a very good, multi-dimensional character .

[Charles Phipps]

I'd say Chaotic Good being as Sonic likes to help people, and he doesn't seem to like following orders. How about Albert Wesker from the Residant Evil games?

Wesker, NE.

He balances the fact he's capable of long term cunning with the fact that he's chronically prone to betraying the people around him. Also, the irony is that it seems he couldn't keep a promise to save his life despite all his scheming.

Here's a tough one,

Emperor Palpatine. Entire career.

[Tengu]

It's tongue and cheek, BUT really being nice or being a prick is all anybody else should care about.

Are you a good friend? Do you hold up your end of the bargain? Then aren't people going to treat you well in return and back you up? Even if you secretly sacrifice kittens to the elder gods?

On the other side, notice how the other paladins didn't even like Miko? Despite her being good?

That's what you think. If I found out that my best friend worked as a hitman, or even was simply cruel to animals, we wouldn't be friends anymore.

[Dan_Hemmens]

That's what you think. If I found out that my best friend worked as a hitman, or even was simply cruel to animals, we wouldn't be friends anymore.

It strikes me as very slightly ironic that people are arguing about the "but people love to argue" Alignment poster.

I think the point the poster is making is that Alignment only makes sense in the *first place* if you assume a fairly black and white universe, so all good people *will* be nice and all evil people *will* be pricks. It's about organising your archetypes.

[Kurald Galain]

Emperor Palpatine. Entire career.

Lawful Evil, I'd say.

I don't think anybody really disputes the idea that he's evil. As for lawful, he's a traditionalist, highly disciplined, capable leader and consummate politician. Plus he's opposed mainly by jedi, who tend towards the chaotic good.

[Learnedguy]

Lawful Evil, I'd say.

I don't think anybody really disputes the idea that he's evil. As for lawful, he's a traditionalist, highly disciplined, capable leader and consummate politician. Plus he's opposed mainly by jedi, who tend towards the chaotic good.

I thought the jedis as an organization tended towards lawful good.
They are self-controlled, locality towards the republic is their goal, and they obey certain ethics, right?

Lack of seven feet pole does not imply lack of lawful tendencies. I believe <.<;;

[Corinthus]

Yeah, the jedi are a LG organisation, keeping to a strict code of morals and self-discipline. Certain members of said order have displayed CG and NG tendencies tho.

Palpatine is definiately LE. He's the head of a galaxy-wide oppressive, conformist, totalitarian regime. It might as well have the motto "Do as we say, or we blow your whole planet up."

[Kurald Galain]

Okay, I agree that the jedi as a whole are probably intended to be lawful good - however, just about every single jedi who got more than half a minute of screen time in the movies pretty much behaves chaotic good.

[Dan_Hemmens]

Okay, I agree that the jedi as a whole are probably intended to be lawful good - however, just about every single jedi who got more than half a minute of screen time in the movies pretty much behaves chaotic good.

The order as a *whole*, mind you, tends a lot more towards Lawful Neutral or even Lawful Evil (there's a bit in the EU where they order the extermination of an entire race because their presence destabilizes the galaxy).

Original series Jedi are pretty much LG, Prequel Jedi are a lot closer to LN - look at Yoda telling Anakin that he's not only not allowed to care for Amidala, but that he's not even allowed to feel bad about the possibility of her dying.

[Thane of Fife]

What alignment would you give Hamlet, from The Tragedy of Hamlet, Prince of Denmark?

[Dan_Hemmens]

What alignment would you give Hamlet, from The Tragedy of Hamlet, Prince of Denmark?

True Neutral, clearly.

"Oh I should avenge my father, but perhaps I shouldn't, I should kill my uncle, but I can't, I might-or-might-not have a thing for my mother"

Prevaricating twerp.

[Starbuck_II]

True Neutral, clearly.

"Oh I should avenge my father, but perhaps I shouldn't, I should kill my uncle, but I can't, I might-or-might-not have a thing for my mother"

Prevaricating twerp.

I agree, Hamlet fits TN.
How about:
Prince Humperdink in Princess Bride.

[Sucrose]

I agree, Hamlet fits TN.
How about:
Prince Humperdink in Princess Bride.

LE to the tee. He's highly organized, makes somewhat elaborate plans to attack Gildur, and tries to get his fiancee and Wesley killed to further said plans. He also tries to marry Buttercup against her will, and yet demands that some semblance of proper ceremony be performed.

[Lighturtle]

What about Kirby? He eats pretty much anything in his path and doesn't follow any rule whatsoever?

Yet he works for the greater good.