Brainstorming session: fixing the arcane trickster.

[Duke Malagigi]

While looking over the arcane trickster I noticed a few problems. First, this PrC is for rouges/arcanists, right. Then why give a poor BAB and a d4 hit die? Wouldn't an average BAB and a d6 hit die make more sense? Second, why not give arcane tricksters sailient class abillities? Maybe adding their slight of hand bonus to saving throw DC's for Illusion spells once or twice per day. Perhaps even allowing arcane tricksters to store offensive spells in one of their weapons, to be discharged only on a sneak attack attempt. Third, why aren't Lawfuls allowed?

[gurvachev]

Why not create a new prestige class altogether?

Your ideas may be of an arcane trickster, but putting all those ideas on it would just create a new PrC in the process.

[Tequila Sunrise]

While looking over the arcane trickster I noticed a few problems. First, this PrC is for rouges/arcanists, right. Then why give a poor BAB and a d4 hit die? Wouldn't an average BAB and a d6 hit die make more sense? Second, why not give arcane tricksters sailient class abillities? Maybe adding their slight of hand bonus to saving throw DC's for Illusion spells once or twice per day. Perhaps even allowing arcane tricksters to store offensive spells in one of their weapons, to be discharged only on a sneak attack attempt. Third, why aren't Lawfuls allowed?

Because prestige classes are rarely well thought-out. My arcane trickster.

[Toliudar]

Why not create a new prestige class altogether?

Your ideas may be of an arcane trickster, but putting all those ideas on it would just create a new PrC in the process.

Well, yes, but we can still use the current PrC as a kind of template from which to build.

I'd say that adding 3/4 BAB progression and a capstone ability that's like the Hierophant's Reach ability, allowing all sorts of ranged-touch nastiness for the sneaky mages, would make this a much more playable class. Not that it isn't fun on it's own, but the loss of spellcasting levels in order to qualify, as always, is a hard pill to swallow.

[KoDT69]

Not that it isn't fun on it's own, but the loss of spellcasting levels in order to qualify, as always, is a hard pill to swallow.

It is debilitating at lower levels, but taking 2 levels in Rogue first helps when you have boatloads of skill points. Practiced Spellcaster helps, but still leaves the arcane caster a full spell level behind, but then again, they become more balanced that way. I have a Rogue/Sorc/Trickster in my campaign and she's not as tough as the Cleric, and never overpowers the group. The Cleric player is a total noob so it even out in the end

[Chronos]

Third, why aren't Lawfuls allowed?

I was asking myself that same question, earlier today (the first I had noticed it, even). I had a clever theoretical build all planned out, and then suddenly I notice that it doesn't work, since other aspects of the character require Lawful. All I want is a prestige class which advances sorcerer spellcasting for the first level, and gives Disable Device as a class skill. Is that too much to ask? Apparently.

[Duke Malagigi]

Okay then, I'm in the process of posting my own version of the arcane trickster in the homebrew forums. If any one has other contributions post them on either this thread or the homebrew thread.

[Prometheus]

Adding a slight of hand bonus to an Illusion spell DC would basically mean cast illusion spells that can't be disbelieved. Not only is that a large bonus, but skills scale at a different rate than saves/DCs, and therefore even substituting the DC with a skill check is quite robust. The only instance I can think of where this is done is with the Bard's Fascinate ability, which is still limiting to the bard.

My guess is that anyone who is taking this Arcane Trickster route of learning is not taking the scholarly route, and therefore is not lawful in that they reject wizardly institutions of learning.

Although I do like the idea of a sneaky lawful caster Prestige. Maybe an ability that lets them get sneak attacks when they had recently changed location with a Dimension Door or similar spell.

[Duke Malagigi]

Adding a slight of hand bonus to an Illusion spell DC would basically mean cast illusion spells that can't be disbelieved. Not only is that a large bonus, but skills scale at a different rate than saves/DCs, and therefore even substituting the DC with a skill check is quite robust. The only instance I can think of where this is done is with the Bard's Fascinate ability, which is still limiting to the bard.

How about once per day and adding a +2 bonus for every 5 ranks in slight of hand. Can only be used if the arcane trickster has one hand free.

My guess is that anyone who is taking this Arcane Trickster route of learning is not taking the scholarly route, and therefore is not lawful in that they reject wizardly institutions of learning.

In my opinion the Law/Chaos axis isn't about studiousness vs. skullduggery. It's about the group vs. the individual.