[4e] Rogue Preview

[Little_Rudo]

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Sneak Attack!

by Bill Slavicsek

This month, we’re granting everyone a surprise round before the actual launch of the 4th Edition of Dungeons & Dragons. During this surprise round, a bunch of my staff is heading to the D&D Experience in Virginia to play 4E with people, show off the latest art, unveil the rest of the year’s slate of products, and provide a new look at the elements of D&D Insider. It’s an exciting time!

Not only are we in the midst of seeing finished galleys of the core books here in the office, but we’re about to enter the final stage before the launch of 4E. To me, this last sprint kicks off with D&D Experience. At the show, fans and players get to mingle with Chris Perkins, Andy Collins, Rob Heinsoo, James Wyatt, Mike Mearls, and Chris Youngs from my R&D team, as well as with The Rouse and Sarah Girard from the Brand Team, Didier Monin, and the great folks in Organized Play. It should be a wonderful event.

At the event, everyone will get to see the new game system in action. Games will be played, secrets will be revealed, and amazing D&D Insider features will take center stage. I’m sure the various tidbits that get revealed will be reported here and elsewhere as they happen, but I want to kick off the festivities with my own surprise round.

What better way to get everyone excited and talking than to show off one of the class write-ups from the new Player’s Handbook? And what class more typifies the surprise round than the rogue? What follows is the opening spread for the rogue class, as well as a few of the powers available to rogue characters.

You’re going to see something called “builds” in the information that follows. Builds present themes that you can use to guide you as you select powers and other abilities. You can follow the advice of a build, or you can ignore it. It’s not a constraint, but instead provides information to help you make informed choices as you create your character. Using a class build isn’t required; builds exist to help guide your decisions through the process of character creation and each time you level up.

If you’re going to attend D&D Experience, say hello to the gang for me. In the meantime, enjoy this surprise peek at the rogue. Hurry, though. You know how sneaky the rogue can be.
Rogue

"You look surprised to see me. If you’d been paying attention, you might still be alive."

CLASS TRAITS

Role: Striker. You dart in to attack, do massive damage, and then retreat to safety. You do best when teamed with a defender to flank enemies.
Power Source: Martial. Your talents depend on extensive training and constant practice, innate skill, and natural coordination.
Key Abilities: Dexterity, Strength, Charisma

Armor Training: Leather
Weapon Proficiencies: Dagger, hand crossbow, shuriken, sling, short sword
Bonus to Defense: +2 Reflex

Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges: 6 + Constitution modifier

Trained Skills: Stealth and Thievery plus four others. From the class skills list below, choose four more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dexterity), Athletics (Str), Bluff (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Perception (Wis), Stealth (Dexterity), Streetwise (Cha), Thievery (Dexterity)

Build Options: Brawny rogue, trickster rogue
Class Features: First Strike, Rogue Tactics, Rogue Weapon Talent, Sneak Attack

Rogues are cunning and elusive adversaries. Rogues slip into and out of shadows on a whim, pass anywhere across the field of battle without fear of reprisal, and appear suddenly only to drive home a lethal blade.

As a rogue, you might face others’ preconceptions regarding your motivations, but your nature is your own to mold. You could be an agent fresh from the deposed king’s shattered intelligence network, an accused criminal on the lam seeking to clear your name, a wiry performer whose goals transcend the theatrical stage, a kid trying to turn around your hard-luck story, or a daredevil thrill-seeker who can’t get enough of the adrenaline rush of conflict. Or perhaps you are merely in it for the gold, after all.

With a blade up your sleeve and a concealing cloak across your shoulders, you stride forth, eyes alight with anticipation. What worldly wonders and rewards are yours for the taking?

ROGUE OVERVIEW

Characteristics: Combat advantage provides the full benefit of your powers, and a combination of skills and powers helps you gain and keep that advantage over your foes. You are a master of skills, from Stealth and Thievery to Bluff and Acrobatics.

Religion: Rogues prefer deities of the night, luck, freedom, and adventure, such as Sehanine and Avandra. Evil and chaotic evil rogues often favor Lolth or Zehir.

Races: Those with a love for secrets exchanged in shadows and change for its own sake make ideal rogues, including elves, tieflings, and halflings.
Creating a Rogue

The trickster rogue and the brawny rogue are the two rogue builds, one relying on bluffs and feints, the other on brute strength. Dexterity, Charisma, and Strength are the rogue’s most important ability scores.

Brawny Rogue
You like powers that deal plenty of damage, aided by your Strength, and also stun, immobilize, knock down, or push your foes. Your attacks use Dexterity, so keep that your highest ability score. Strength should be a close second—it increases your damage directly, and it can determine other effects of your attacks. Charisma is a good third ability score, particularly if you want to dabble in powers from the other rogue build. Select the brutal scoundrel rogue tactic, and look for powers that pack a lot of damage into every punch.

Suggested Feat: Weapon Focus (Human feat: Toughness)
Suggested Skills: Athletics, Dungeoneering, Intimidate, Stealth, Streetwise, Thievery
Suggested At-Will Powers: Piercing Strike, Riposte Strike
Suggested Encounter Power: Torturous Strike
Suggested Daily Power: Easy Target

Trickster Rogue
You like powers that deceive and misdirect your foes. You dart in and out of the fray in combat, dodging your enemies’ attacks or redirecting them to other foes. Most of your attack powers rely on Dexterity, so that should be your best ability score. Charisma is important for a few attacks, for Charisma-based skills you sometimes use in place of attacks, and for other effects that depend on successful attacks, so make Charisma your second-best score. Strength is useful if you want to choose powers intended for the other rogue build. Select the artful dodger rogue tactic. Look for powers that take advantage of your high Charisma score, as well as those that add to your trickster nature.

Suggested Feat: Backstabber (Human feat: Human Perseverance)
Suggested Skills: Acrobatics, Bluff, Insight, Perception, Stealth, Thievery
Suggested At-Will Powers: Deft Strike, Sly Flourish
Suggested Encounter Power: Positioning Strike
Suggested Daily Power: Trick Strike

Rogue Class Features

All rogues share these class features.

First Strike
At the start of an encounter, you have combat advantage against any creatures that have not yet acted in that encounter.

Rogue Tactics
Rogues operate in a variety of ways. Some rogues use their natural charm and cunning trickery to deceive foes. Others rely on brute strength to overcome their enemies.

Choose one of the following options.

Artful Dodger: You gain a bonus to AC equal to your Charisma modifier against opportunity attacks.
Brutal Scoundrel: You gain a bonus to Sneak Attack damage equal to your Strength modifier.

The choice you make also provides bonuses to certain rogue powers. Individual powers detail the effects (if any) your Rogue Tactics selection has on them.

Rogue Weapon Talent
When you wield a shuriken, your weapon damage die increases by one size. When you wield a dagger, you gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls.

Sneak Attack
Once per round, when you have combat advantage against an enemy and are using a light blade, a crossbow, or a sling, your attacks against that enemy deal extra damage. As you advance in level, your extra damage increases.
Level Sneak Attack Damage
1st–10th +2d6
11th–20th +3d6
21st–30th +5d6
Rogue Powers

Your powers are daring exploits that draw on your personal cunning, agility, and expertise. Some powers reward a high Charisma and are well suited for the trickster rogue, and others reward a high Strength and appeal to the brawny rogue, but you are free to choose any power you like.
Deft Strike
Rogue Attack 1
A final lunge brings you into an advantageous position.

At-Will ✦ Martial, Weapon
Standard Action
Melee or Ranged weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding a crossbow, a light blade, or a sling.
Target: One creature
Special: You can move 2 squares before the attack.
Attack: Dexterity vs. AC

Hit: 1[W] + Dexterity modifier damage.
Increase damage to 2[W] + Dexterity modifier at 21st level.


Piercing Strike
Rogue Attack 1
A needle-sharp point slips past armor and into tender flesh.

At-Will ✦ Martial, Weapon
Standard Action
Melee weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding a light blade.
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex

Hit: 1[W] + Dexterity modifier damage.
Increase damage to 2[W] + Dexterity modifier at 21st level.


Positioning Strike
Rogue Attack 1
A false stumble and a shove place the enemy exactly where you want him.

Encounter ✦ Martial, Weapon
Standard Action
Melee weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding a light blade.
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Will

Hit: 1[W] + Dexterity modifier damage, and you slide the target 1 square.
Artful Dodger: You slide the target a number of squares equal to your Charisma modifier.


Torturous Strike
Rogue Attack 1
If you twist the blade in the wound just so, you can make your enemy howl in pain.

Encounter ✦ Martial, Weapon
Standard Action
Melee weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding a light blade.
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. AC

Hit: 2[W] + Dexterity modifier damage.
Brutal Scoundrel: You gain a bonus to the damage roll equal to your Strength modifier.


Tumble
Rogue Utility 2
You tumble out of harm’s way, dodging the opportunistic attacks of your enemies.

Encounter ✦ Martial
Move Action
Personal
Prerequisite: You must be trained in Acrobatics.

Effect: You can shift a number of squares equal to one-half your speed.


Crimson Edge
Rogue Attack 9
You deal your enemy a vicious wound that continues to bleed, and like a shark, you circle in for the kill.

Daily ✦ Martial, Weapon
Standard Action
Melee weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding a light blade.
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Fortitude

Hit: 2[W] + Dexterity modifier damage, and the target takes ongoing damage equal to 5 + your Strength modifier and grants combat advantage to you (save ends both).
Miss: Half damage, and no ongoing damage.

I didn't see a topic on this, so even though I'm more of a lurker than a poster, here it is. Enjoy!

[Kyeudo]

Very interesting. A final confirmation on a few things. Humans obviously still get a bonus feat at first level, Rogues get powers, Dexterity is their defining characteristic, etc. All in all, looks like they tapped alot of Unearthed Arcana in making 4th Ed.

I don't like how the Skills look, mostly because of the possible difficulties with multiclassing, but that may just be me.

I do like the fact that Trapfinding is apparently gone.

[AslanCross]

I noticed they no longer have Intelligence as a priority ability score.

[Admiral Squish]

I can hardly understand a word of that. Which confirms the suspicion that I'll have to re-learn EVERYTHING from the ground up.

[Artanis]

BUILD ADVICE! YES!

I think this is an amazing decision. The bane of newbies everywhere has always been not really knowing what to do with a character, often causing them to f*** it up royally, in turn screwing themselves out of having any fun just because of inexperience. Now WotC devotes a few lines to giving newbies a couple of pointers to help them avoid gimping themselves too thoroughly.

Up until now, I had mostly taken a "wait and see" approach regarding 4e, but this gives me reason to allow myself a little bit of optimism


Also, the powers look neat, and I'm interested in seeing the write-ups for other classes (namely the Wizard) to see how and if they differ in "feel".

I can hardly understand a word of that. Which confirms the suspicion that I'll have to re-learn EVERYTHING from the ground up.

Some of it was hard to understand because it referenced mechanics that we don't have access to, but plenty of it made sense to me, despite us still knowing so very little about the game.

[Sanzh]

This looks okay. Most of 4E I've seen I don't like, but this shows some promise. My only complaints are how rogues are no longer Int-focused and how few skills they seem to get.

[Little_Rudo]

This looks okay. Most of 4E I've seen I don't like, but this shows some promise. My only complaints are how rogues are no longer Int-focused and how few skills they seem to get.

To be fair, with how much skills are folded into one another, they do end up being quite capable with their six skills. It's hard to tell without having another, generally less-skilled class to compare them to.

[Reinboom]

Armor Training: Leather
Weapon Proficiencies: Dagger, hand crossbow, shuriken, sling, short sword

So, Weapon Proficiencies are no longer categorized, and Armor is changed with their categories... or is also no longer categorized.
Hm..

Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5

Woo, rolling by default is out!

Trained Skills: Stealth and Thievery plus four others. From the class skills list below, choose four more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dexterity), Athletics (Str), Bluff (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Perception (Wis), Stealth (Dexterity), Streetwise (Cha), Thievery (Dexterity)

No diplomacy.
Good.

I wonder why they wrote out "dexterity" on a few, but shortened on the others...

And I wonder what 'Insight' is...

combat advantage

I'm unsure about this. An all inclusive term of "when flanking or would be flat-footed" perhaps? And.. with other things that give you it?

[Ascension]

Two random notes/complaints/puzzlements...

By RAW you can't sneak attack with a bow anymore! Aww man, no Haley homage characters in 4th ed. without a house rule.

It mentions that evil rogues often revere Lolth... is she no longer race specific? Seems a little odd...

[Reinboom]

Two random notes/complaints/puzzlements...

By RAW you can't sneak attack with a bow anymore! Aww man, no Haley homage characters in 4th ed. without a house rule.

It mentions that evil rogues often revere Lolth... is she no longer race specific? Seems a little odd...

They mentioned they were making gods less race specific.

and "darn..." about the bow thing. I rarely see it used though.

[SurlySeraph]

Hm. I see very little to complain about. The skill system makes sense.

They seem to be making shurikens rather important, what with them being one of the rogues 5 class weapons and there being a feat devoted to shurikens and daggers. I will leave analysis of that detail to those who think DnD is turning into anime.

I don't think I like whatever's going on with the health system. Constitution apparently only gives you bonus hit points at 1st level now. But at first level, it gives you a lot of hit points. It seems like giving so many hits points at 1st level is an attempt to make sure that high-level characters can't slaughter an abitrarily large number of low-level characters any more, which I do approve of. I have mixed feelings about giving a specific number of hit points per level. On one hand, it's more fair than rolling. On the other, it seems less realistic (because there's no possible variation), less traditional, leaves less room for a DM's personal style (whether he wants players to roll, take full HP per level, take average HP, etc.). As for "Healing Surges," I want healbot clerics back. They kept things balanced.

BAB doesn't appear to exist anymore.

Sneak attack looks a lot weaker now. And you know what? If they release something like this on Wizards, and Wizards aren't proportionately nerfed, I'm going to be very, very angry.

[tyckspoon]

BUILD ADVICE! YES!

I think this is an amazing decision. The bane of newbies everywhere has always been not really knowing what to do with a character, often causing them to f*** it up royally, in turn screwing themselves out of having any fun just because of inexperience. Now WotC devotes a few lines to giving newbies a couple of pointers to help them avoid gimping themselves too thoroughly

I wouldn't be too optimistic about that just yet. There have been books where Wizards offered build advice. Which was nice, but it tended to be wrong. Like the suggestions to take Weapon Focus and Toughness- in 3.5, that's terrible advice. Hopefully they don't suck so bad this time around. Fortunately, it looks like the really important parts, which I assume are going to be the powers and talents chosen, are going to be a lot harder to screw up. It's interesting that Weapon Finesse (and Dex as the damage mod. Took long enough.) is basically automatic for Rogues; possibly this indicates the general death of a 'default' combat stat? We already saw the Paladin smite preview that indicates that Paladins will be able to strike with Charisma at least part of the time.

[Artanis]

I don't think I like whatever's going on with the health system. Constitution apparently only gives you bonus hit points at 1st level now.

Hrm...depends on how (and if, for that matter) the healing surges scale. Since the number of healing surges is dependent on CON mod, 4e could wind up with CON being just as big a factor in survivability as it was in 3e. Or not. *shrug*

Sneak attack looks a lot weaker now. And you know what? If they release something like this on Wizards, and Wizards aren't proportionately nerfed, I'm going to be very, very angry.

Yeah, I definitely want to see the equivalent Wizard stuff as well

[tyckspoon]

Hrm...depends on how (and if, for that matter) the healing surges scale. Since the number of healing surges is dependent on CON mod, 4e could wind up with CON being just as big a factor in survivability as it was in 3e. Or not. *shrug*

Hmm. I read that as a Healing Surge providing 6 + Con Mod HP back, but that would run a risk of dwindling into insignificance at higher levels. I'm guessing the goal for a Healing Surge is something like the Dragon Shaman's fast healing aura or the Touch of Healing Reserve feat currently; they can get you to about half health, but to get back to full you need the intervention of a more powerful healing ability. Or possibly in 4E, to have a Leader-class use one of his powers to let your Healing Surge be more effective.

Yeah, I definitely want to see the equivalent Wizard stuff as well

I'm not sure what the /Encounter and /Day powers will look like, but I'm almost certain the at will powers will be nearly identical to the ones we see here for the Rogue. They'll just use Int for the attack modifier and do [Focus tool] + Int damage instead of Dex.

[Rutee]

They seem to be making shurikens rather important, what with them being one of the rogues 5 class weapons and there being a feat devoted to shurikens and daggers. I will leave analysis of that detail to those who think DnD is turning into anime.

ToB made it seem pretty clear to me that the devs want to add Eastern influences, without letting them dominate. I, for one, don't see adding wuxia and the like to the mix as "Turning DnD into anime".

I'd be worried about the 'lack of powers', seemingly, but I suspect they just showed us Crimson Edge to give us an idea of a Rogue Daily power, not to show us what paths progression might take from 2 to 9. I like this though, with the Rogue striking multiple defenses!

However, the lack of innate rapier proficiency makes me a sad panda.

[TheOOB]

I see some good, some bad.

I really don't like the trained skill thing, it worked ok for Star Wars, but unless it works differentially here then in that system I will have to houserule it out. As long as you still gain new skills when multiclassing, and there is another cost efficient way to get skills, it could work. That said I don't like class skills in general, I believe every class should just get skill points per level, and anything that shouldn't be avaible to every class should be a class ability.

I also don't like how specific the weapon set is, why can my rogue use a hand crossbow but not a two-handed one, anyone can use a two-handed crossbow, and why don't they have weapons like a sap or a club, the list is needlessly specific without room for customization. I could imagine say, having a list of available weapons and choosing a number(with of course some simple weapons, dagger, crossbow, club, staff automatically avaible), but just saying a rogue can only use a couple weapons is bogus.

On the other hand, I'm liking how the abilities are looking. I'm not entirely sure exactally what they do, the notation is quite different from 3.5, but they look good. I just hope some of them end up being more fancy then just ways of doing more damage. ToB didn't just make fighter types viable, it also made them cool, which is a trait I hope they encorperate into 4.0

[Fhaolan]

I think they have rolled darts, throwing spikes, and shuriken together into one 'category' of weapon, and used the more popular Japanophile name. D&D has been moving in that direction for several editions, which I find amusing as I envisioned the 'dart' in D&D not as a bar-dart that everyone else seems to see it, but more of the size of lawn-darts. Half-sized javelins, and so on.

[tyckspoon]

On the other hand, I'm liking how the abilities are looking. I'm not entirely sure exactally what they do, the notation is quite different from 3.5, but they look good. I just hope some of them end up being more fancy then just ways of doing more damage. ToB didn't just make fighter types viable, it also made them cool, which is a trait I hope they encorperate into 4.0

I don't know how much of the versatility of all the 9 Ways they'll include in any single class, but from just the preview we already have powers that:
Let you move the enemy
Let you move yourself before/while striking
Let you maneuver better with a 'shift' move (five-foot step equivalent, I think?)
Do damage over time and give you 'combat advantage' (combo-able to other powers that require combat advantage, probably)
Combine Strength and Dex mods for damage

And that's only out of a few powers from levels 1, 2, and 9. There's at least 7 other levels worth of powers that we don't know anything about yet. It seems likely to me that few of the Rogue's powers will be *only* damage dealing, if the group here are any kind of representative sample.

[Blackadder]

As far as this goes, Crunch raises to many questions to comment directly, Fluff yes we can tear apart because the've given us the before the back and the story of some areas so we can take that apart and dissect it.

But what are shuriken? Just 3.5 shuriken? Or are darts and throwing knives in that area to? If so then could short-swords have half a dozen weapons in it's grouping? What about light/heavy crossbows?

We don't know yet crunch wise, but I can comment on one area.

It does look like the Reaper has been at the skills list.
Acrobatics (Dexterity), Athletics (Str), Bluff (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Perception (Wis), Stealth (Dexterity), Streetwise (Cha), Thievery (Dexterity)

So right now a 4.0 rogue has 10 skills

Compared to 3.5 Rogue 30 skills
The rogue’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (local) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex).


Now here's the question, are Rogue no longer skill-monkeys? Or did the skills list get a massive overhaul?

Based on what we've seen I call over-haul, Massive overhaul. And it could be a very good thing.

[Maerok]

WotC: "Hey look, it's a Rogue. He kills you quietly... Also... umm... hmm... sneaking and skills, sure why not I guess."

What to expect:
WotC: "Hey look, it's a Fighter. He kills you violently."
WotC: "Hey look, it's a spellcaster. He kills you with magic. What? Roleplaying? You can find that in the next supplement."

[Blackadder]

One quick follow-up, if Rogue's are still skill-monkey's that leaves the max possible 4.0 skils at 12-14. Meaning at the very least that of the 35 skills that 3.5 features, that every single skill got at least one merger.

Some we've seen, Bluff/Diplomacy to Persuasion. Hide/Move silently and so on. But are we going to see super Balance/Jump/Climb type physical skills or what is Wizard's aiming at with the new possibly much reduced skill set?

[Rutee]

Some we've seen, Bluff/Diplomacy to Persuasion. Hide/Move silently and so on. But are we going to see super Balance/Jump/Climb type physical skills or what is Wizard's aiming at with the new possibly much reduced skill set?

I can easily see a reduced skill set. Do you know how much glut is there, primarily to nickel and dime you out of Skill Points? DnD is literally one of two systems I know that even has Climb as its own skill at all, and the other system openly admits that it's mostly useless.

[Rachel Lorelei]

WotC: "Hey look, it's a Rogue. He kills you quietly... Also... umm... hmm... sneaking and skills, sure why not I guess."

What to expect:
WotC: "Hey look, it's a Fighter. He kills you violently."
WotC: "Hey look, it's a spellcaster. He kills you with magic. What? Roleplaying? You can find that in the next supplement."

You're right, they should've included roleplaying mechanics.

(????)


To elaborate--roleplaying your rogue isn't going to work any differently in 4E than it does in 3.5. Why would they spend preview space on rehashing that?

[tyckspoon]

are Rogue no longer skill-monkeys? Or did the skills list get a massive overhaul?[/b]

Based on what we've seen I call over-haul, Massive overhaul. And it could be a very good thing.

Definite overhaul. As you mentioned, we already know certain skills have been condensed; Hide/Move Silent are just Stealth now, Spot/Listen/Look collapse to Perception. Climb/Jump/Tumble/Balance have presumably been distributed between Athletics and Acrobatics. Open Lock/Disable Device and the pickpocketing function of Sleight of Hand are probably in Thievery. If I'm remembering some developer blog stuff correctly, Gather Information and Know (Local) are gathered under Streetwise. There are few enough skills that Rogues no longer need to get 10 or 12 skill points each level just to have a satisfactorily broad selection. Presumably other less skill-centric classes will have fewer free trained picks from an even more condensed list (they probably won't have Thievery, for one.)

[FinalJustice]

Am I the only one who misses a recovery method for all those 'per encounter/per day' stuff? Doesn't need to be as safe as ToB classes and definetely some of those will always exist, but I don't like the idea of 'per encounter' abilities with no method to recover during the encounter.

[Crow]

I was expecting something a little different when I read "Trickster Rogue". I guess I imagined a spymaster sort, rather than a...rodeo clown.

[skywalker]

I was feeling very positive about 4.0 until I read this.

Through web previews and the races & classes preview, Wizards had sweet talked me into thinking 4.0 would be more fun.

I am now back to being skeptical.

This seems very limited. I wasn't around when 3.0/3.5 came out, but I'm fearing right now that the only things I'll be capable of playing are "brawny rogue" or "trickster rogue."

It's all so much about the combat.

Evidence already that the build advice is wrong: They list STR, DEX, and CHA as key abilities, but trapfinding and disabling is apparently based on WIS? WTH?

I don't like the way HPs appear to work.

Very meh-ly pissed off. The pessimistic side of my brain feels vindicated.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

I don't think I like whatever's going on with the health system. Constitution apparently only gives you bonus hit points at 1st level now. But at first level, it gives you a lot of hit points. It seems like giving so many hits points at 1st level is an attempt to make sure that high-level characters can't slaughter an abitrarily large number of low-level characters any more, which I do approve of. I have mixed feelings about giving a specific number of hit points per level. On one hand, it's more fair than rolling. On the other, it seems less realistic (because there's no possible variation), less traditional, leaves less room for a DM's personal style (whether he wants players to roll, take full HP per level, take average HP, etc.). As for "Healing Surges," I want healbot clerics back. They kept things balanced.

The removal of HP bonus per level is, balance-wise, a good thing (if that is what they did). It makes wizards remain weak compared to fighters no matter how many bonuses they get to constitution. Also, it cuts down on total HP-no more will we have 20th level characters with 400+ HP. But healing surges are a bad thing flavor-wise.

Sneak attack looks a lot weaker now. And you know what? If they release something like this on Wizards, and Wizards aren't proportionately nerfed, I'm going to be very, very angry.

You're missing that:
a) HP has been substantially reduced-a 20th level rogue with 16 constitution would now have 123 HP instead of the equivalent of average 210 a rogue with 16 constitution, a +6 constitution item and average rolls would have in 3.5
b) The rogue does sneak attack whenever he has a combat advantage. Guess what? Half his powers give him combat advantage now.
c) Much fewer creatures will be immune to sneak attacks-if any. E.g. zombies are no longer immune to criticals and, by extension, sneak attacks.

Torturous Strike
Rogue Attack 1
If you twist the blade in the wound just so, you can make your enemy howl in pain.

Encounter, Martial, Weapon
Standard Action
Melee weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding a light blade.
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Dexterity modifier damage.
Brutal Scoundrel: You gain a bonus to the damage roll equal to your Strength modifier.

The above is a 1st level ability for rogues. Assume the rogue has combat advantage (is flanking or has gained advantage from a previous maneuer) and is wielding a rapier (1d8 light blade in 3.5). He deals (if he hits ofcourse) 2d8 (weapon 2x) +3 (dex) +3 (str) +2d6 (sneak) for an average of 22 points of damage Compare to a 3.5 fireball that deals 35 points of damage by 10th level. Remember that HP has been nearly halved.

Guess what? Relatively speaking, a 1st level 4.0 rogue power, using a nonmagical weapon, does the same damage to a single target as a 3.5 fireball cast by a 10th level caster. Ofcourse, the fireball does damage to more than one enemy. But we should take into account that the equivalent power level would be a 10th level power, not a 1st and that also the rogue should be using a +2 weapon by 10th level so increase the damage by an average of 9.

Am I the only one who misses a recovery method for all those 'per encounter/per day' stuff? Doesn't need to be as safe as ToB classes and definetely some of those will always exist, but I don't like the idea of 'per encounter' abilities with no method to recover during the encounter.

Per encounter powers are just that: you only use them ONCE per encounter. Powers usable more than once are at will. Per day powers are only usable once per day.

[RTGoodman]

Anyone have any ideas of what the [W]s mean in the power descriptions? At first it seems to me that it might me Wound points (like, the Torturous Strike power deals two points of direct Wound damage), but then I wasn't sure whether or not they've said anything about a HP/Wound/Vitality system. Anybody know anything about it?

I have to respectfully disagree with Admiral Squish - I don't think the mechanics here are complete unintelligible. The problem is just that a lot of the mechanics are just not specifically stated here (power recovery, that sort of thing); besides a few things like that, it's not really that hard for me to understand most of what they're talking about (based on what I've heard about 4E already).

Regarding concerns and comments about being limited to weapons, I think they mentioned that there are gonna be feats to sort of "mini multiclass" into other classes. I'd assume there's a "Fighter Training" feat that gives you access to some better weapons and whatnot, and having a Rogue take a feat to represent martial training in order to wield a longsword or whatever seems pretty fair to me. Multiclassing is supposed to not completely suck from what designers have said, so those kinds of problems are hopefully gone.

[tyckspoon]

Anyone have any ideas of what the [W]s mean in the power descriptions? At first it seems to me that it might me Wound points (like, the Torturous Strike power deals two points of direct Wound damage), but then I wasn't sure whether or not they've said anything about a HP/Wound/Vitality system. Anybody know anything about it?

I think it's a stand-in for [weapon damage]. Tortuous Strike does double base damage. I wanna say the Paladin smites preview article explained it?