The mage shirt?

[Bandededed]

So I just have a quick question, which may or may not be stupid.

By table 7-33 in the DMG, an AC increasing item with a bonus of +4 would cost 16000 GP (bonus squared (4) x 1000 GP)

However, if you instead created a wondrous magic item - say, a shirt - that used the spell effect of mage armor continuously, it could only cost 6000 GP.... (spell level (1) x Caster level (min 3) x 2000 GP)

Am I at all right here? Or am I off in a completely wrong direction?

[kamikasei]

The pricing rules are guidelines. The guidelines for spell-effect items are especially imprecise, because spells vary tremendously in the power of their effect. In this case, you should look at the actual effect of the item, see that its effect is one with its own entry on the table, and price accordingly, because clearly the effect is more valuable than the spell level would suggest.

Compare to bracers of armor which have a very similar effect and are priced according to their bonus.

In general, custom magic items have to be approved by the DM with a careful eye towards their balance, and almost anyone will err on the side of overpricing an item rather than allowing a brokenly powerful one into the game too cheaply.

[sonofzeal]

Spells that provide a numerical bonus never work like that. Pricing rules by bonuses takes precedence. That's why you can't make the infamous "Gauntlets of True Strike".

[AmberVael]

You're right in your calculations, but I draw your attention to one line on top of the table you used:

Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values

Furthermore:

Not all items adhere to these formulas directly. The reasons for this are several. First and foremost, these few formulas aren’t enough to truly gauge the exact differences between items. The price of a magic item may be modified based on its actual worth. The formulas only provide a starting point.

[bugsysservant]

Um, those tables are known for being abusable. For instance, you can make gloves of true strike for about 2000, or 1200 gp if you reduce correctly, IIRC. These would provide +20 to attack, and negate concealment. Seriously, those tables aren't RAW, or even close. They're just guidelines in case a DM wants a magic item that doesn't exist yet

[UglyPanda]

While agree with the above posters, I want to point some stuff out.

+1 Mithral Twilight Chain Shirt. It costs 5100 gp and gives a +5 bonus to AC. It has no armor check penalty or arcane spell failure chance.
Greater mage armor from the Spell Compendium is a 3rd level spell. It gives you +6 for the same duration as the original.
Level 1 pearls of power only cost 1000 gp each. By the time you can afford that custom item, you can keep your mage armor spell running the entire day using these, and for a lower price.

[AmberVael]

While agree with the above posters, I want to point some stuff out.

+1 Mithral Twilight Chain Shirt. It costs 5100 gp and gives a +5 bonus to AC. It has no armor check penalty or arcane spell failure chance.
Greater mage armor from the Spell Compendium is a 3rd level spell. It gives you +6 for the same duration as the original.
Level 1 pearls of power only cost 1000 gp each. By the time you can afford that custom item, you can keep your mage armor spell running the entire day using these, and for a lower price.

Shhhhh. Those are secrets!
But yeah, Mithril Twilight Chainshirt ftw. >>

[Bandededed]

Um, those tables are known for being abusable. For instance, you can make gloves of true strike for about 2000, or 1200 gp if you reduce correctly, IIRC. These would provide +20 to attack, and negate concealment. Seriously, those tables aren't RAW, or even close. They're just guidelines in case a DM wants a magic item that doesn't exist yet

That's true, but since True Strike lasts for less than a round, I'd actually say that you'd be unable to make it a permanent effect in any case.

Then again, you could let them waste the time making it and then have the effect only work once, since it discharges on the "next single attack"

I also think that bracers of armor are somewhat silly, but that's just me.

Edit: Even though True Strike is a first level spell, no caster can obtain craft wondrous item without being caster level 3, so again, they would cost at least 6000 GP.

[Roderick_BR]

Something interesting. The SRD uses the lantern of revealing as an example of magic item. But if you do the math, it should cost twice what is in the magic itens list in the DMG. As it was said, they are guidelines.

[Bandededed]

Something interesting. The SRD uses the lantern of revealing as an example of magic item. But if you do the math, it should cost twice what is in the magic itens list in the DMG. As it was said, they are guidelines.

Um, no it shouldn't. Spell level (3) x Caster level (5) x 2,000 GP
15 x 2,000
30,000

I'm not sure where you got 60,000 from. It should be noted that this cost is the lowest possible caster level for the item, but other than that...

Unless it's made by a 10th level cleric.

[Roderick_BR]

Um, no it shouldn't. Spell level (3) x Caster level (5) x 2,000 GP
15 x 2,000
30,000

I'm not sure where you got 60,000 from. It should be noted that this cost is the lowest possible caster level for the item, but other than that...

Unless it's made by a 10th level cleric.

Sorry, should have get into details.
Spell level 3 x caster level 2 x default 2,000 = 30,000
Then it says that a spell duration of 1 minutes/level should be multiplied by 2.

That part is not really clear. There's not a "default" duration to make the cost don't be multiplied or divided by anything. That's what I meant that was weird.
And if the spell lasts rounds/level, the cost is multiplied by 4.

So, said shirt would be spell 1 x caster level 1 x base 2,000 = 2,000, then multiplied by 4, for a total of 8,000.

Btw, nowhere it says that your caster level MUST be minimum 3. You can use the minimum caster level for the spell used, even if you are an higher level caster.

[The Glyphstone]

That's true, but since True Strike lasts for less than a round, I'd actually say that you'd be unable to make it a permanent effect in any case.

Then again, you could let them waste the time making it and then have the effect only work once, since it discharges on the "next single attack"

I also think that bracers of armor are somewhat silly, but that's just me.

Edit: Even though True Strike is a first level spell, no caster can obtain craft wondrous item without being caster level 3, so again, they would cost at least 6000 GP.

I think the preferred loophole for that is not making it permanent, but making it Use-Activated, with the activation trigger being something like "when attacking", it automatically casts True Strike.

[LibraryOgre]

Sorry, should have get into details.
Spell level 3 x caster level 2 x default 2,000 = 30,000
Then it says that a spell duration of 1 minutes/level should be multiplied by 2.

However, for a spell level 3, your caster level must be at least 5.

[Raolin_Fenix]

Shirt of mage armor: +4 AC, 6,000 GP.

Regular Chain Shirt: +4 AC, 100 GP.

Chain Shirt +4: +8 AC, 16,100 GP.

Remember, actual armor has its own bonus before any enhancement bonuses. The huge cost of enhancement bonuses comes because those bonuses stack on top of what's already there -- and will *not* stack with your mage armor shirt. So yes, in my opinion, you could get a shirt of mage armor for 6000 gp, and it would provide you with a constant +4 armor bonus to AC. Or, for 6100 GP, you could get a twilight mithral chain shirt +1, and get +5 AC and all the same benefits at virtually the same price.

[PollyOliver]

While agree with the above posters, I want to point some stuff out.

+1 Mithral Twilight Chain Shirt. It costs 5100 gp and gives a +5 bonus to AC. It has no armor check penalty or arcane spell failure chance.

You can actually get a mithral chain shirt with no spell failure chance for cheaper than that, though. A githcraft thistledown padded +1 mithral chain shirt costs less than 2500 gp, if I recall correctly, and has the benefit of being nonmagical. That's if your DM allows it though, I guess.

But anyway, I agree that the SRD prices for spell-effect items are just guidelines to help DMs with pricing, not the be-all and end-all of item prices.

[Bandededed]

Then it says that a spell duration of 1 minutes/level should be multiplied by 2.

You are correct, I did forget to check the duration costs.

So, said shirt would be spell 1 x caster level 1 x base 2,000 = 2,000, then multiplied by 4, for a total of 8,000.

This time, however, you've missed something. Mage Armor isn't measured in rounds per level, it's measured in hours per level.

That part is not really clear. There's not a "default" duration to make the cost don't be multiplied or divided by anything. That's what I meant that was weird.

I've always assumed, since it was not listed, that from greater than 10 minutes per level to less than 24 hours per level was the base.

Btw, nowhere it says that your caster level MUST be minimum 3. You can use the minimum caster level for the spell used, even if you are an higher level caster.

Again, you are correct. I've never really been a buff on the item creation spells. This makes the cost of my "mage armor shirt" 2000 GP. (1 x 1 x 2000). Thank you for this.

@ The_Glyphstone: Thank you. I have never actually heard of gloves of True Strike before.

@ Mark Hall: His number was simply off. He put 2 instead of 5. (note that his math is still correct after the number change: 2x5x2000 = 30,000.

[Xyk]

If I were the DM I'd make it a simple t-shirt +4. t-shirt price, plus 4. making it 16000. That seems fair to me.

[Fiery Diamond]

In general, custom magic items have to be approved by the DM with a careful eye towards their balance, and almost anyone will err on the side of overpricing an item rather than allowing a brokenly powerful one into the game too cheaply.

Bolding mine. Maybe what you said in bold is true. However, I tend to run low-mid level campaigns in the first place (I started my players at level 3 and now they just turned level 7, we'll probably go much higher, but we'll deal with that when we get there.) If you go WBL at lower levels, your characters are completely gimped. Therefore, I go WBL, but I would be a DM deviating from what I bolded in the statement. I evaluate what I think should be ok, then allow it, regardless of what the books say. (personally, I think that in this case I would go with the expensive way, but I'm saying in general).

-Fiery Diamond

[SadisticFishing]

Um, those tables are known for being abusable. For instance, you can make gloves of true strike for about 2000, or 1200 gp if you reduce correctly, IIRC. These would provide +20 to attack, and negate concealment. Seriously, those tables aren't RAW, or even close. They're just guidelines in case a DM wants a magic item that doesn't exist yet

Actually, that doesn't work. Technically, you'd have +20 on your first attack roll after putting them on, but that's it! Read True Strike. Common misconception. Grumble grumble.

You're right about the Mage Armor, except you can't upgrade that to +8, so it becomes a dead item after level... 15ish. Not bad at all, but not that crazy.