Simple question, not -quite- RAW.

[Magnor Criol]

At least I don't think it is. But I've overlooked things before (read: most of the time...)

In the campaign I'm currently playing, the DM does the style of XP and levelup that doesn't really involve XP - that is, at the beginning of each session, he typically says whether we leveled up from the last session, and we go through the process then if necessary. But he doesn't give XP after every encounter, etc.

How are things like magic item creation, which costs XP, handled in this case? We don't really have an XP amount, so we can't subtract a given amount of XP from our total each time we create a magic item. Technically, you could say we have XP right at what's necessary for our last level, which means if I read RAW right that in a way, we couldn't ever create magic items - we're right at the verge so anything we do that costs XP will bump us down a level, something that's not allowed.

I'm sure there's an explanation for this, and it may be as simple as "just be reasonable with your item creation and don't worry about the XP costs," but I'd like to know for personal reference.

Er, one last side note that could be pertinent - the DM is a new one; he's gamed once or twice before, but he's never DMed before, and it's been a little while since he gamed last.

[Proven_Paradox]

There is no RAW way to handle this, really--by the RAW you're getting XP after each encounter. By changing this, you're already working outside the RAW. Just ask your DM and go with what he says.

I play a lot of games like this. In my current in person game, the DM lets me scribe scrolls for no XP cost as long as I don't scribe some absurd amount. Just gotta go with what he says.

[Person_Man]

I actually handle XP in a similar fashion, and I've been gaming since 1st ed. Having tried pretty much every method and variant method of every rpg game out there, I find that the best method for my groups is to just announce when players have gained enough experience to progress another level. Everything else just leads to another level of accounting. (Similarly, I never made my PCs track spell components without a gp cost unless they want to do it.)

99% of the time, its not an issue. If the PC has a burning desire to use item creation feats and spells with an XP cost, that's fine. From that point on, they are one level lower then everyone else in the group, but may judiciously do things that call for an XP cost. If its a one-time only thing ("I don't want to cast Wish every month, just once.") then I generally make them trade extra gp for it. How much depends on how powerful they are compared to the rest of the group.

[BRC]

My DM handles XP in the same way. Well actually he dosn't, he handles XP on an achievement basis instead of a combat basis and none of us bother to keep track of our XP. He does however.

[Magnor Criol]

Sweet. This seems to be a consensus towards exactly as I was imagining it - don't spam item creation stuff, and it's not a big deal, we'll just assume you're not at the limit.

(Wish and similar XP-requiring spells aren't an issue for us yet; we're about 14 levels away from those suckers.)

I rather expect, from knowing my DM, that this is how he'll handle it. I was just seeking feedback from people who'd been in this situation before, since I know a good number of DMs handle XP this way. Thanks, y'all.

[valadil]

I don't give out XP. I've run three D&D games and so far it's never been an issue. I don't know why, but in my games crafting just isn't that popular.

If it came up I'd improvise something. I'd probably let them craft as many consumables as they had time for and I'd strictly limit the time. Wondrous or magic arms and armor would be more like one item crafted per level or 5% of the XP they would have at this level can go to crafting.

[Rad]

I had a somewhat convoluted system that keeps track of players' deaths and XP costing abilities (distasteful design, but it's there). I'll post it later if you like.

[Skjaldbakka]

I've played item crafters many times, and I have generally not had enough money to put much of a dent in my XP from magic item creation. In a game I'm in right now, my sorceror makes the party's magic items, and is one session behind. So he levels one session after everyone else, which strikes me as a reasonable way to do that if you are using ad-hoc leveling instead of XP.

[Telonius]

I would think that you would substitute additional gp (on top of the list price) for XP in that situation. Most conversions I've heard of charge somewhere between 5 to 10 gp per XP it would have cost.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

5 gp per XP is the RAW conversion rate. Whenever a calculation is done between the 2, that's what WotC uses. So we can be sure 5gp isn't the right amount.

[Tack122]

With how the experience system works, I believe that you should be able to keep up in level with your peers even if you use all of your gold for crafting. The point at which you level is slightly changed though, so for example character one levels after the first fight of the session, while character two might level after the second or third fight.

[Dubie]

I always hated the spend XP for X ability idea...Maybe its just my way of thinking. To me, XP represents your characters over-all experience. How can doing something take away from your overall experience level? Just my take on it. So, instead of XP, I charge extra gold....

[Severus]

My group handles XP similarly, and I intend to discuss using GP or just "reasonable" as a starting point with the GM when I get to the level it matters.

I think being permanently 1 level behind would seriously suck. To make that worthwhile, you'd have to make a lot of stuff, so you could really load up on items. (given that item creation feats are caster limited, and a loss of a caster level is a lot.)

[Skjaldbakka]

Not 1 level behind, one session behind. The party levels up session 3, the crafter levels up session 4. Unless you level every session, you aren't far behind. Also, this is the trend for the game I am in in which I play an item crafter. We keep track of XP, and the above is the result. So, if you don't want to keep track of XP, just set the item crafter one session behind in level.

[Prometheus]

Here's a method that is a little convoluted, but makes the XP cost exactly proportional to RAW.
1)Whenever you have an XP cost there is a percent chance that you will lose a level (or not gain next level, whichever is easier)
2)This chance is the "XP cost" divided "XP between this level and the other one"
3)If you don't lose a level, refer to step 1 next time there is an XP cost
4)If you do lose a level keep track of the number that you rolled for the chance to lose a level - eventually the denominator ("XP between this level and the other one") will be large enough to give you back your level.
5)If you had lost a level due to XP cost, than you cannot lose another until either your XP costs exceed the denominator ("XP between this level and the other one") or you regain your level as in step 4.

Alternatively, your DM could require you do mini-quests that are apart from the rest of the party, or an additional constraint in the game, in order to earn XP that can be spent on magic item creation

[Riffington]

I lean strongly towards the "don't make him lose levels, just don't abuse it" if you aren't playing with experience points.

If you need to define "within reason", then just give him some crafting xp. Say, every 100-200 gp that the party gets (or 10*level^1.5 every time he gains a level, or whatever), the appropriate characters get a "crafting xp" they can use to make items.

[Suzuro]

I'd have to agree to the 'within reason' idea. If they start to craft ludicrous amounts or something, the DM could just have them give up something, or warn them about it.





-Suzuro

[Skjaldbakka]

I would like to reiterate: It is difficult to spend enough XP crafting magic items to feel it. If the crafter guy is spending a signifificant chunk of xp on magic item crafting, it means that the PCs have a really high amount of gold. If the PCs have a lot of gold, then the consequences of the crafter's spending lots of XP on crafting things is minimal, because the party is already very wealthy at that point.