Irrelevant

[Mr. Friendly]

Edit: This thread was a bad idea.

[Azerian Kelimon]

This is an epic Win Thread.

[Kizara]

This thread is about all of the things you have learned about D&D, past, present and future. Specifically, things you have learned since the announcement of 4th Edition.

For example, I have learned:

Gnomes are the most popular race in the whole world. Everyone (except my group apparently) plays whole parties of gnomes, in every adventure. Sure, in ~20 years of D&D I have seen exactly 5 gnome characters ever played in a group I have played in or DMed.... but apparently it must just be me!

Any change to any rule of D&D killing a sacred cow and fundamentally ruins the game, for everyone.

In 4th Edition, your character is required to make Chuck Norris jokes and 5p3@k 133t.

4th Edition is designed solely for 12 year olds who play WoW.

3rd Edition was designed solely for 12 years olds who watched anime.

2nd Edition was designed solely for those young whipper-snappers and their new fangled computing boxes.

1st Edition was designed solely for people who were too stupid to play Chainmail.

Tom Smykowsky should make a jump to conclusions mat for new editions of D&D.

Isn't this sort of trolling, as you are essentially directly mocking the opinions and thoughts expressed in the "Dislike 4e thread" and being pretty snide about it?

That being said, you got a small smile from me. :)

[Mr. Friendly]

Isn't this sort of trolling, as you are essentially directly mocking the opinions and thoughts expressed in the "Dislike 4e thread" and being pretty snide about it?

That being said, you got a small smile from me. :)

I didn't make it with the intent of trolling - I made it for fun. Obviously anyone can feel free to post their own absurd observations, such as:

4th Edition will make the whole universe perfect and will make kittens and puppies stay cute forever, will heal the sick and create peace on Earth.

4th Edition will be replaced in 6th months by 4.5 with 5th Edition coming out 2 years later.

[Baron Corm]

This is an epic Win Thread.

Ironic?

Isn't this sort of trolling, as you are essentially directly mocking the opinions and thoughts expressed in the "Dislike 4e thread" and being pretty snide about it?

Someone who trolls doesn't want you to know he's trolling. Azerian might have been trolling (trying to get us to bash him, see, for making the equivalent of a Chuck Norris joke). Just being mean is called "flaming" and I'm pretty sure this was just a good-natured joke. The More You Know *star*

[Xefas]

Before 4th edition was announced, the only times I saw the word "balance" used within the context of D&D were in instances of seeking mechanical balance, complaining about a lack of mechanical balance, or questions about the various degrees of mechanical balance within a certain class/feat/race/etc.

Only after 4th edition was announced did I begin seeing the occasional "Balance is for suckers, and if Wizards really wanted to make a good edition, they'd throw balance out the window and have everyone a hodgepodge of nonsensical numbers and statistics." The only two reasons I saw written for this was "If the game is balanced, you can't roleplay in it." and "If the game is balanced, then D&D has become World of Warcraft".

Such an opinion has been in the vast majority (so far as I have seen), but I just thought I'd make the observation.

[KIDS]

Mr. Friendly, you score an epic win yet again. Soon the Internet shall be yours....

Let's examine one argument... that about gnomes, specifically.
...in my 4 years of gaming, I saw this number of gnomes. Gnomes... hm... let me check... 13 out of 278, or 4,68%. Out of those 13, 2 were mine and after some time I found I didn't really like both, as they were hard to get out of their stereotype and others' assumptions.

For illustration, the races characters structure of a board I play mostly on:



Your idea is quite correct, they have benn and are incredibly rare.
If someone is interested in Class and Alignment distributions, feel free to ask.

[PnP Fan]

I've learned that the apocalypse did not happen when OWoD ended, but instead will occur this summer with 4.0.

I've also learned that people who normally spend money monthly to buy supplements, even lousy 3rd party supplements (not that all 3rd party product sucks, but some of it does), will use the publication of a 4th ed as an excuse to stop buying new material.

I've also learned that my friends, many of whom don't buy the books on a regular basis to start with, will control the buying habits of those of us who do spend money regularly on the hobby by making statements like, "I don't want to spend the money to switch to 4th ed." when they didn't really spend the money to switch to 3rd or 3.5th ed.

I've also learned that folks would generally rather spend their money on other things that seem to be an improvement on the d20 system (True 20 for example) than on something that is openly claiming not only to be an improvement on the d20 system, but also making changes to the system enough to be a somewhat different game, rather than a rehash of the system.

I've learned that the worst tactician I've ever played with (a good friend, but definitely a terrible tactician) is a proponent of the SAGA system, and I'm not sure how to feel about 4th ed.

Finally, I've learned, as an adult*, no one cares about the rules changes, it's all about "silver and gold" poured into the game.

*see my sig for thoughts about D&D as a "serious hobby".

[Illiterate Scribe]

Ironic?

Not at all. Epic win guy is a sign that the thread is (believe it or not) epic; that's why he's got a badass V for Vendetta mask.

[Scintillatus]

I think it should be mandatory to read this.

I was generally indifferent beforehand, and now I'm enthusiastic. Sure, I have to wait for the Bard - and if I want to make a Gnome that's another book - but it seems like most of the complaints you can dream up are "I want more!".

Also, Elminster isn't dying? Cry. I hope he's tortured forever or turned into a powerless comedy sideshow, then.

[Morty]

Let me add few things:
- Every single design decision made by WoTC while making 3ed sucks and it's Wizards' holy duty to turn it on its head.
- Everyone plays their D&D sessions like a cliched fantasy book, and if they don't, they should.
- Something players won't encounter on daily basis shouldn't exist.
- Great Wheel is so complicated it makes my head hurts, even though I didn't know about it.
- Demon and dragon wannabies are super cool as player races.
- Races having attribute penalties means penalizing players and is Not Cool.
- If you like some aspect of previous editions and you want it to stay, you're defending sacred cows.
I'd throw something pro-4ed, but Mr. Friendly covered it.

[its_all_ogre]

that i am and have always have been playing dnd wrong.

(actually thats most threads on this board, but hey )

[SamTheCleric]

I learned that anything entering 4th edition requires the world to end.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

4th Edition will be replaced in 6th months by 4.5 with 5th Edition coming out 2 years later.

I thought the list was supposed to be ironic.

[Rutee]

...I haven't learned anything. Exalted players screamed about 2e, when 2e was mostly a mechanical update, rather then enormous changes to the way things worked; They said it was a ripoff. Dungeons and Dragons makes vast changes, and they scream about sacred cow killing (There is no Sacred Cow Level).

Sucks to have an established name, maybe?

[NEO|Phyte]

(There is no Sacred Cow Level).

<_<

>_>

Yes there is, you just need to stuff the Leg of Vecna into a bag of holding (type IV) along with a spellbook that has the Plane Shift spell in it. Of course, it doesn't work unless you've beaten the game at least once.

[Indon]

Gnomes are the most popular race in the whole world. Everyone (except my group apparently) plays whole parties of gnomes, in every adventure. Sure, in ~20 years of D&D I have seen exactly 5 gnome characters ever played in a group I have played in or DMed.... but apparently it must just be me!

Actually, the rarity of gnomes is a form of awesomeness-rationing. If everyone played gnomes all the time the flavor would run thin. We play gnomes, as a result, only when the flux capacitation matrix can constrain the degree of coolness of gnomes, referred to as the "gnomefficient".

In 4th Edition, your character is required to make Chuck Norris jokes and 5p3@k 133t.

That's not all; didn't you hear? Crossroads is the town that's going to come packaged with the first PHB. Since Wizards doesn't want to produce extraneous parts of the product, you'll have to log on to the online service to get the full effect of Crossroads, and will be unable to use it in the paper and pencil version of the game.

3rd Edition was designed solely for 12 years olds who watched anime.

My God, that's why I upgraded! I guess I should've taken a hint on how easy it was to houserule Namekians and power blasts into the game vs. 2'nd edition. (Edit: Example, what AD&D save do you use for the Kamehameha?)


But on a more serious note, let's look at a couple of the general philosophies that Wizards seems to be using to design this game:

-Classes should be balanced, and Wizards is willing to discard as much game complexity as is necessary to accomplish that goal.

-Player options from 3'rd edition that they feel were underutilized will receive less attention in the future, and they'll change the flavor to match.

-They want to keep an influx of new player options to keep players interested, and presumably see what they should keep or discard in the future.

-They want to focus more on narrative over simulation in terms of environment, by simplifying the cosmology and removing areas too alien for average PC's to adventure.

-Powerful mechanics should be DM-controlled MacGuffins, except for when Wizards decides to get rid of them instead.

-Poor and uninteresting systems should be scrapped, except for traps which Wizards decided to make interesting instead.

-Player fatality should be significantly lowered.

I think that sums up a good chunk of what seems to be the reasoning, so far, behind the changes to the game.

[Dan_Hemmens]

-Player fatality should be significantly lowered.

I hear that's their new slogan:

D&D 4th Edition: Now Significantly Less Likely to Kill You.

(sorry, bad "player fatailty" joke)

[Prophaniti]

Everything M0rt said. Also, apperently everything I liked in 3.5 is a sacred cow... and here I thought they were just rules and background that I happen to think doesn't need changed. Shows what I know about my own opinions.

[Indon]

I hear that's their new slogan:

D&D 4th Edition: Now Significantly Less Likely to Kill You.

(sorry, bad "player fatailty" joke)

Don't you joke about that sort of thing. Player death is a very real thing in D&D!

[Ozymandias]

"No, not Black Leaf! No, no! I'm going to die!"

Classic.

If you die in the game, you die for real!

[Ganurath]

Don't you joke about that sort of thing. Player death is a very real thing in D&D!

And here I though 4e left a bad taste in my mouth.

[Indon]

I particularly liked, "I declare her dead."

The implication that you're never allowed to make new characters (even at level 1) is funny, too, because I distinctly remember some pretty amusing AD&D campaigns with different player levels as a result of deaths and rerolls.

[SamTheCleric]

No fair, how come Debbie gets to learn the real spells and I've been at this for years!

*sob*

[Mr. Friendly]

Ah Jack Chick, classic - good times.

If you want a hilarious parody of the Chick tracts.. there is this: http://www.rubbersuitstudios.com/ptcct.htm *Warning: Contains profanity and hilarity*

[Yakk]

-Player fatality should be significantly lowered.

ITYM temporary player "death" should be significantly lowered. They are trying to eliminate the "someone killed the King/Prince/Lover. Damnit, that's 1/3 of an encounter's worth of treasure to fix."

[Rutee]

That's not all; didn't you hear? Crossroads is the town that's going to come packaged with the first PHB. Since Wizards doesn't want to produce extraneous parts of the product, you'll have to log on to the online service to get the full effect of Crossroads, and will be unable to use it in the paper and pencil version of the game.

*Unleashes bullet hell on you*

There are some things you just don't joke about. DnD is srs bsns.

[Indon]

Oh, and another bit of Wizard's intent that what they've released of 4'th edition seems to be implying:

-Player choices should not lead to characters having significant weaknesses.

[Armoury99]

Don't you joke about that sort of thing. Player death is a very real thing in D&D!

Hey, I was Blackleaf and don't panic, my fellow 'players' just had me Raised. No biggie - although I did mope around until I got that level back.

Things I've learned:

- Not to worry, because People this dumb still won't be able to understand 4th edition grappling rules, so their lives are safe.

- There's no need to wait for a finished product, a miniscule section of the rules is enough to formulate your opinion.

- Talking down to your existing customer base is apparently the way to attract new customers?

- Real men use THACO!

- 4th edition probably won't be too bad, just different.

- We should fanatically stick to the background material of earlier editions, despite the fact that (being compiled in pieces over 20 years...) it often didn't make sense.

- Being like WoW is a bad thing, despite it being the world's most popular CRPG (probably) and without any particular reasons why

- Tieflings will talk like a reject from a bad Dracula movie. Male tieflings will look like demonic monsters, but despite having exactly the same features, Female tieflings will be 'hot'

- People who supposedly share the same hobby as me are prepared to spend fifteen pages of thread on the WoTC site discussing whether or not female dragonborn should have breasts.... when since the answer is clearly "yes, and they should be barely constrained by skimpy chainmail."

- The WoTC marketing is completely crap.

- Whoever designed this 3e thing was apparently crap too, because everything is better in 4th edition!

- Yes it is about the money.

[Rutee]

- The WoTC marketing is completely crap.

Hey wait, I did learn something. The thought never even occurred to me, what with DnD being the biggest RPG with the biggest publisher.