Need help, urgent!!!

[kentma57]

I am playing a powerful (Sorrcerer 1, Wizard 4, Ultimate Magus 15) with spells through the roof (Rings of wizardry 1-4) and I have a caster battle coming up.

There are a few problems; 1 I have no 9th level spells, 2 I am undead and risk getting killed at the first thing that needs a fort. save.

-What I know, one of the two casters I will face (there are three of us and it is one-on-one combat) is a conter-speller(sorcerer) and the other is going for a batman build(I think, also he's a wizard)

-None of us have leadership(not alowed)

-all are PC's

If you don't know Ultimate Magus is a Wizard/Sorcerer Persige class, I effectivly have 16 levels of both Wizard and Sorcerer, plus I get to know extra spells. (I also have the feat that makes my spells +4 caster level)

[olelia]

What do you need help with...you forgot to mention what the problem you need fixing is.

[SoD]

You're undead? That makes you immune to anything that requires a fortitude save, from memory...

[Tempest Fennac]

Why did you decide to play as an undead? Also, is there an item hich would help protect you from Undeath to Death? That would be realy useful.

SoD: undead still need to make Fortitude saves, but they don't get any Con bonuses to it, so his Fort saves are a huge weakness (especially if someone uses Disintegrate on him).

[Dr Bwaa]

Metamagic enervation may be your best friend here. Split/Twin Enervation with a Greater Rod of Empower? Eat it, casters.

Against Batman, you don't have a prayer, because if he wins initiative (which he will) he will Timestop and then have his way with you (if he doesn't win initiative, that's what Celerity is for).

Are you allowed buffs beforehand? (not that it may matter, since if I was a counterspeller in a mage duel, I'd just Disjoin you right off the bat...)

SPELL TURNING. CAST IT.

You may also really just want Summon Swarm going on.

Also, make sure you have Imbue Familiar With Spell Ability (lets your familiar cast a few spells: completely invaluable, don't remember where it's from though)

Before you go in, you'd better have Mind Blank up, and Greater Arcane Sight (to see if THEY have mind blank/spell turning)

mmm that's all for now. The rest of the playground is better at optimizing than I am. :) good luck!


EDIT: Forgot about the undead problem

Maybe get a contingent Wall of Force (contingent on having Disintegrate cast targeting you) to eat Disintegrate, or better, cont. Dimension Door or spell turning (can you even do that? I don't remember the rules for Contingency at all)

[Gorbash]

And that feat you have (Practiced Spellcaster), only does anything if you have multiple classes with different spellcasting sources - in your case, it can either make your wizard spells at +1 CL (because your CL can't be more than your HD), or your sorcerer spells at +4 CL and you designate which when you take the feat...

[kentma57]

Ultimate Magus gives me + 15(level) to my sorcerer casting and + 12(level) to my Wizard casting. So both are ar 16.

[kentma57]

What do you need help with...you forgot to mention what the problem you need fixing is.

Right, I want to win the fight...

[Person_Man]

All Theurge PrC generally suck for exactly this reason. Having 1,000 spells per game day is pointless when you only play 1-5 combats per game day, and combat lasts 1-4 rounds.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

First off, you've got a major problem in an arcane duel. Ultimate Magus isn't a very powerful PrC for dueling, however much depth it brings to your repitoire.

Second, being Undead makes you immune to a whole slew of effects. Shall I direct you to the Undead Type in the SRD?

You have complete immunity to any Fort save effect, unless it also affects objects. That means you don't have to worry about Save or Die effects (other than Undeath to Death, which is actually a Cleric spell), however you do have to worry about Disintegrate.

The undead subtype also grants immunity to all mind-affecting effects, so don't worry about Mind Blank, you've got one built in.

You are immune to stunning, so you are free to use the Celerity line without worrying about the detremental effects. Abuse this.

Now then, as for tactics:

Against the counterspell guy: Don't affect him directly, affect him indirectly. Use Celerity to gain free actions, even during his turn, plus Quicken metamagic to get as many actions in a turn as possible. He can only counter one spell a turn, so make sure the first one you cast is something like Enervation. If it hits him, he's hurt in negative levels. If it hits you, you are healed, by virtue of being Undead. In fact, one of the big guns in a Batman's arsenal is Enervation to drop saves, which doesn't work on you. Once he's blown his Counterspell, drop the big guns on him.

Against Batman. You loose. Sorry, there's nothing you can really do to win this battle. He's got Contingency Celerity upon my being the target of an attack or negative effect, plus other ways to make sure he goes first. Then he drops down a Sudden Maximised Time Stop, and he's got 5 turns (4 if he used it with a Celerity) to royally screw you over. However, you are immune to several of his more obnoxious combos (Cloudkill, Finger of Death, Enervation actually heals you...) and your D12 hit die, by virtue of being undead, means he can't even drop four DBF's on your head, because you'll likely survive it. Just in case, make sure to have some resistance against fire.

[LoneGamer]

How are you a level 15 Ultimate Magus? It's a 10 level class. Are you epic? If so, what other classes put you at 20 HD before your 11th level of Ultimate Magus?

[Dr Bwaa]

Whoops, forgot about the undead and mind-affecting bit. Yes, you don't need mind blank.

Shneekey has some good ideas (especially Celerity abuse). And I know I've said it, and others, but just to reiterate: Enervation Enervation Enervation. If it's countered you've got more; if it's turned you're healed; if it hits he's screwed.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

Am I the only one who's going to point out that Ultimate Magus is a ten level prestige class?

And also, does anyone remember the guy asking for help making a Batman for a caster duel against a counterspell Sorcerer? Warning a Challenger is approaching?

[Dr Bwaa]

And also, does anyone remember the guy asking for help making a Batman for a caster duel against a counterspell Sorcerer? Warning a Challenger is approaching?

Good call; I bet you're right. Heh.

(also, I'm assuming they're just houserule-extending the PrC, but you guys are right, that's not really legit)

[kentma57]

Good call; I bet you're right. Heh.

(also, I'm assuming they're just houserule-extending the PrC, but you guys are right, that's not really legit)

Your right we did homebrew the PrC, and I am in the same group as that other guy, I though I would throw my chalenger in... (personaly I am betting of the counter-spell guy)

[Tokiko Mima]

I think what you need is more tricks.

1. Use a ring of spell-battle (MIC) or three to identify and redirect spells back at their casters. This can mess up even Batman casters if they aren't aware that you can do this.
2. Be aware of skill tricks made available in Complete Scoundrel. False Theurgy, Conceal Spellcasting and Swift Concentration might all be useful, depending on your plan of attack.
3. As an initial volley, a scroll or item with Disjunction would nullify all those nasty contingent effects. Resist the urge to target the mage directly though. Target nearby so you don't trigger any contingency that relies on the mage themselves being targetted. You would need a high UMD skill to pull this off, though, so you will want a Dragonblood Sorcerer Variant and/or an item of UMD skill.
4. Think of something to stop the other caster from using the Foresight > Celerity > Time Stop combo. If you can't, be sure you can pull off the same combo somehow because this is a quick 3 move checkmate otherwise. Maybe enter the battle with a sculpted Antimagic Field that centers on, but excludes you?

that's all the ideas I can think of for now. Let us know how it goes!

[kentma57]

Thanks Tokiko Mima

[kentma57]

I was thinking of a weapon of legacy...

[Irreverent Fool]

You are immune to stunning, so you are free to use the Celerity line without worrying about the detremental effects.

Immunity to stunning =/= Immunity to daze

I forgot my suggestion to the OP: Send in a spelled-up simulacrum (or 7 with some fake auras to make them seem to be mirror images. Compound this by having each simulacrum cast more mirror images) of yourself and skip town. There's a spell somewhere that will make the recipient explode in a gigantic blast of energy when destroyed, so put that on it too. Scry on the simulacrum and watch the battle unfold, learning about your opponent's tactics for use when you really face him.

Meanwhile, you cast some polymorph any object spells on your face and start a new life until you can catch this guy in his sleep.

Edit:

...with spells through the roof (Rings of wizardry 1-4)...

Wait... you have more than two rings?

[sikyon]

1 I have no 9th level spells,

Good luck.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

Also, if you can find that thread look at all the advice I gave that guy, also note that Rings of Spellbattle are your God. Not kidding, best caster duel item ever.

1)Rings of Spellbattle
2)Rod of Absorption
3)Spell Turning

Suddenly every caster duel is actually like fantasy fights in that seven spell/effects go off before anyone actually gets hit by anything.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Maybe enter the battle with a sculpted Antimagic Field that centers on, but excludes you?

AMF does not block line of effect, so excluding yourself would just make you vulnerable to attacks targeting you or your square.

[TheSteelRat]

Honestly, I'd change your class levels, or rather, how you take them with Ultimate Magus. You can still be pretty powerful with it, and get 9th level spells at 20th level. Here's a guide for that: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=727042

The basic exploit of Ultimate Magus is the Practiced Spellcaster feat and the wording of the "lowest arcane caster" that occurs 3 times in the 10 level prestige class. If you assign it to the Sorcerer, you can end up only losing 1 level of wizard's spells known over the prestige class, or 2 levels out of 20 if you continue wizard after you're done with UM. That'd give you the benefits of a class such as Archmage, or whatever other wizard prestige class you'd think of powering up with. Also, sorcerer might not be an ideal spotaneous class, and I suggest that Beguiler or another INT-based spontaneous class might be useful to maintain minimal MAD. In general, a build of Spells Known 18 Wizard / 9 Sorcerer and Spell Power 22 Wizard / 17 Sorcerer is pretty nasty.

If you're willing to go from lvl 18 Wizard spells to lvl 17 (netting you 1 + bonus 9th level spells a day), you can use the Persistent Cheese, burning through your spontaneous spell slots to empower Persistent (requires Practiced Metamagic) can be wonderful.

Also, there's a feat I believe in one of the Eberron books, that if allowed, will give you a tremendous advantage. Extra Rings. You get two extra ring slots, always active. 4 Rings, versus their 2, will allow you to have extra magical equipment specifically designed at preventing casters from getting to you, with extras. Watch out for Disjunction though.

[Tokiko Mima]

Hmm... just a thought: Could you use a ring of spellbattle to redirect Celerity and/or Time Stop onto yourself? And if so, does the caster of a spell get to make a Spellcraft check to identify their own spell so they can redirect it with another ring of spell-battle? It's spell wrestling!

Thanks Tokiko Mima

No problem!

[Telonius]

For the counterspeller ... his readied action is to cast Dispel when you cast. Instead, pick up that Quarterstaff and charge him. You might not win the fight, but the look on his face will be priceless.

[Stapler]

For the counterspeller ... his readied action is to cast Dispel when you cast. Instead, pick up that Quarterstaff and charge him. You might not win the fight, but the look on his face will be priceless.

Seems to me this would be a poor tactic when the person you are facing already has more spells than you do.

Would it be a good tactic for him to try and counter spell the other's spells, as his main strong point are he has a bunch of spells?

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

Seems to me this would be a poor tactic when the person you are facing already has more spells than you do.

Would it be a good tactic for him to try and counter spell the other's spells, as his main strong point are he has a bunch of spells?

1) He won't ready to counterspell anything, he'll use Reactive counterspell to counter once effectively gaining a free standard action in the fight. Also, counterspelling works because he'll probably have Mastery of Counterspelling, thus reflecting the spells back onto the caster.

2) If you can spring for the feats to get Elven Spell Lore/Reactive Counterspell/Arcane Mastery/Inquisition domain, Ultimate Maguses would make Great counterspellers.

I imagine something like Beguiler 2/Wizard 3/UM 10/Nightmare Spinner 1/Archmage 4

Though the Archmage feat pre-reqs plus the other is pushing it. But mastery of counterspelling, Arcane Reach, and 2 Spell Powers is nice.

Wizard 17/Beguiler 8 but with 1 extra spell of every level for Wizard and one extra spell of Beguiler levels 1-4.

CL of 26 for Wizard/18 Beguiler before items.

Use the Spell book to known spells feature on Dispel Magic. Third level slots for that, and 4th level slots for Quickens of Wizard Spells.

The thing is, with all those bonuses to CL and Dispel checks, you can actually auto succeed on dispels of up to CL 15 using just Dispel Magic. And at higher levels, like 20, you can use Greater Dispel to auto dispel up to CL 25.

Of course, you also have tons of spells and day, in addition to reflecting opponents spells at them, and you have a huge CL.

My advice: Use those extra dispels, chain them even, remove their buffs, especially freedom of movement, and dispel their rings every couple rounds. Let Evard's Black Tentacles do the rest. And that's being effective without using anything higher then 6th level spells. So use your 7th and up for buffs.

[Solo]

Make use of Ray Deflection and Spell Turning.

[TempusCCK]

There's a spell in the Spell Compendium called Ray of Anti-Magic, it's 7th level and each casting costs you 100Gp, but it's a ranged touch and if you hit them with it they function as if inside an anti-magic field for a number of rounds. I'm not sure on the exact ruling, but I'm pretty sure you can still hit them with Rays and the like while they got nothing on you. For a while anyway.

[Idea Man]

Limited Wish (since you don't have access to Wish) that all spells with "Celerity" in the title are delayed by one round if cast in your presence. Vague enough to be useful, specific enough to get the job done, and not too overpowered to be impossible for a 7th level spell (of course, that could be debated). First round of batman's super strategy is/might be in limbo.

Assuming your undead status is unusual (i.e. - batman lives), maximized symbol of weakness (triggered at the beginning of battle) and waves of exhaustion might work. You could also try using another limited wish to fix the result of a spell turning resonance to effect both casters, then throw a maximized twinned enervation. 8 levels off the top (and most of his 9th and 8th level spells) should level the playing field.

Or you could teleport 500 feet above him, quicken polymorph into a whale, fall on him (telekinesis to aim?), and demand a draw (which, against a full batman, is victory).

Against a counterspeller...um, hello? You're an ultimate magus. Who has the numerical spell advantage? Make him use those slots up, if it comes down to it. If he's not counterspelling, he casting, and you can fight him fair. Just for giggles, summon some babau. They can counterspell low level counterspells (dispel magic). Enervation can be a big help here, too.

My prolific use of limited wish, which is cheese, is proportional to the threat, which is cheese. If he agrees to play nice, do the same, but then he wouldn't be playing a batman.