Problem Players

[Da King]

DM(me): Hello everyone, meet Dwight T. Barnes.
Dwight T. Barnes: The beatings will continue until morale improves!
DM: Dwight T. Barnes is a Level 3 batman wizard.
Dwight T. Barnes: I have to kill Beggars! I'm chaotic and I have to balance out my good deeds!
DM: And as you can see, Dwight T. Barnes is not a very well behaved player.
Dwight T. Barnes: Hey cleric of pelor, want to help me murder innocent commoners?
Cleric: (who refuses to role-play): Oh boy, this will be just like playing Oblivion!
Samurai: My glowing will destroy undead! I dual wield bastard swords!
Paladin: *currently asleep at table *
DM: *resisting urge to bring down the smiting rocks of DM's wrath*

This is my group, and DMing has been tiresome. I have had to constantly deal with player foolishness. First off, Dwight T. Barnes. (A cookie to anyone who can find where that name came from) Dwight T. Barnes is played by my best friend and the DM of the last campaign I played in. I don't know why he has chosen to play a chaotic stupid character (revenge for playing a druid in his campaign who tried to build a nuke, probably) but he is annoying me a lot.
He constantly questions the way I'm running the game,

Dwight T. Barnes: What you can't do that! (in response to asking him what he thinks of changing a bag of devouring (note: this is out of game, between sessions) to an NPC under my control)
DM: Yes I can, I'm the DM and I can change what I need to according to to rule 0
Dwight T. Barnes: But its rule 0! therefore it has no value!

And insists that because he is "chaotic" he can do whatever he wants. For example, he fed an innocent beggar (he did pay him about 2gp first) poisoned meat(without telling it it was poisoned, beggar fails sense motive check) just to see what the poison would do. Usually he's a good friend and doesn't do crap like this, but he's basically making me irritated for five hours straight every time we get together for D&D.

Next, we have the Samurai. He plays a Samurai for some reason, and only really cares about how much damage he can do in a round. He also has some wierd feat that makes him glow and do constant damage to undead/evil outsiders. Both the class and this feat are from books I don't own and that he has not lent to me yet. Then, all of a sudden he says out of game that he doesn't want to play a samurai anymore, because it won't let him get into some wierd prestige class. (dread commando, I think) "No, I want to play a fighter, and I will dual wield bastard swords!" he says. I don't know why he does stuff like this, and I'd like him to try something else(he ALWAYS plays fighter-types who dual wield, to the point of obsession almost)

On to the cleric. He knows the rules well, but this is his first time playing D&D and he should role-play his character more (If you are reading this Mr. Cleric, that means stop helping batman kill beggars, you're a cleric of PELOR)

Finally the Paladin. She is ultra-new to the game, doesn't know the rules all that well yet, but that's okay. Unfortunately, the player of the samurai convinced her to reverse her intelligence (10) and her wisdom (15) so she could get some obscure code/sign-language from another book I don't own. Hooray, a Paladin who can't cast spells and she doesn't even know how bad this is. "well you can just by stat increasing items to fix that" says the samurai when I point this out. Problem is, magic items are supposed to make you better, not make up for gaping holes in your character build.

So, what do you think? How I should I deal with my players?

[Saph]

I find in these situations that it helps to take a step back and consider exactly why you're DMing the game. Are you having fun the way the campaign's going now? If not, why not?

If you're enjoying the campaign even though the players are insane and don't listen to you, then there isn't really a problem. If you aren't, then you've got three choices:

1. Give up and let someone else DM.
2. Get the players to play in a way such that everyone, including you, has fun. This usually requires administering at least a minimal smackdown. Personally, I have zero tolerance for players who try and argue with my rulings in mid-game. If they think I've made a mistake, they're to bring it up with me, politely, after the session. If they keep arguing, I boot them. This may seem harsh, but usually improves the game in the long run.
3. Forget about the story and start doing whatever the hell you want. Sometimes it just isn't worth trying to play kindergarten teacher. Some players are permanently stuck on Chaotic Stupid, and neither you, I, nor anyone else can do a thing about it. If you have a group where the majority are this way, it's usually not worth the effort to try and change them. So just do whatever you find amusing. (You don't have to kill all the PCs in ridiculous and over-the-top ways, such as by having them discover Cthullu hiding in their toilet, but it's recommended.) Oddly, you'll often find that the players will enjoy this more than you trying to guide them through an epic quest.

- Saph

[sonofzeal]

- Mr Drill Instructor DTB is your biggest problem, and needs to be smacked down pronto. He's a DM, he knows how this works, and it sounds like he's deliberately causing trouble for you. Talk to him out of game, tell him his behavior is unacceptable, and if it continues then he's out of the campaign while you're DMing. You have that right.

- Samurai man is also a problem. I categorically refuse to allow players to use options unless I've had time to read through it in full. If he won't lend you the book, tell him to choose something else. As to obsessively dual-wielding, well that's more his own problem. Dual-wielding bastard swords is a horrible option, and I'd double-check his sheet and make sure he's taking the appropriate penalties; I have a feeling he doesn't really know how TWF works.

- Cleric. Simple. Pelor sends him a message in a dream, threatening to disown him if he keeps it up. Deny him spells for a day to scare him straight, and if he doesn't get his act together, deny them permanently until he Atones. Pelor doesn't have to take that sort of bull**** from him.

- Paladin. Again, don't allow options unless you either have the book, or they lend it to you. Beyond that, let her play her character the way she wants, but don't let other players push her around. A high-cha, low-wis Paladin is perfectly playable, and there's nothing "wrong" with using a Periapt of Wisdom to gain access to the spells, or even bypassing them entirely, if it fits her character concept. Do make sure it fits her character concept though.


Overall, it sounds like your group has serious RP issues. Give them a questionnaire to help them, which asks questions like "what does your character like/dislike?" "How do they feel about their family?" Things like that, to help them begin to see their characters as actual people and not as That Guy With The Two Huge Swords Who Hits People Hard.

[LoneGamer]

The city watch finds out about the rash of beggar killings, and have found leads, witnesses, and evidence pointing to Batman.

[Shishnarfne]

The city watch finds out about the rash of beggar killings, and have found leads, witnesses, and evidence pointing to Batman.

Speak with Dead

Commune

A few simple divination spells can track down most killers... Know them, and use them to track down disruptive characters.

Also, I'd suggest that you take time to talk to your newer players and explain why you give the advice that you give. Such as advising that Wis is almost always more important for a Paladin than Int.

Double-check with your would-be powergamer (he thinks he's doing it, but really isn't) and problem child to make sure that they not only understand the rules as written, but the rules as you intend to apply them, the difference and the importance.

Politely ask your former DM why he chooses to act in a way that he wouldn't want players in his game to act. If he gives an unsatisfactory reason, or if he insists that he wants players who act that way, having his character get in the crossfire of a high-level magical duel between chaotic wizards might explain that his sort of chaotic behavior really can't be allowed unchecked...

Remember, it's your table, your setting, but you have to get them to buy into it enough to make it worthwhile for everyone.

[Sucrose]

I categorically refuse to allow players to use options unless I've had time to read through it in full.

This, this, a thousand times this. Allowing people to use options that you don't know about is an invitation to rules abuse. You're the DM; you have the right to disallow things that you aren't familiar with.

(Now, if you have the time, you should be willing to look at the stuff that your players want to use, and possibly let them have it, but limited time is understandable, and you certainly don't need to let them use things unless you know how they will affect game balance.)

I agree that deliberate problem-causing should be smacked down, in-game or out-of-game, whichever works. Granted, it sounds as though you did the same kind of stuff in his game, but two wrongs don't make a right, and all that he's doing is derailing your game.

The samurai's player is an incompetent optimizer, and possibly a munchkin. I don't know why I'm mentioning this, as it sounds as though those aren't even the major problem, which is his inability to roleplay his character as anything more complex than a Cuisinart. If that really bothers you, then you should probably ask him to describe, without any game mechanical terms, what he wants his character to be like; history, personality, fighting style, everything. Take notes, and, as he just might not have thought that much about it, ask that he try to play his character in a consistent manner, which fits the profile that he wants.

The paladin and the cleric don't sound like they're really problems at all, just that they're victims/abetters of the other two's hare-brained schemes. Same treatment for the cleric as the samurai, and don't let the samurai influence either of their builds. They're newbies; they'll screw enough up without his help.

I think that you ought to start a new game, and inform them that every last part of each of their builds has to be something that you find acceptable. Let them make their characters in down time, and review each of them, printing off a copy for yourself so that you can be sure that they are all adding everything properly, and so you can more easily guage what an appropriate challenge would be.

[F.L.]

Well, a trip to the local paper shredder (a dungeon designed to eat them) is always an option, especially because they don't have a rogue, batman wizard be damned. (This is the chaotic evil option for you, obviously). Hmm, spread some rumors about the "Horrible Tomb of Kurtulmak" or something... Or Tucker's tomb of Horrors...

But the problem isn't that the characters are out of control, it's that the players are. So, you have to do your level best to manipulate them instead. If you kill their characters, they'll just think up more annoying ones, usually. So, let's examine the people:

The paladin: Inexperienced, and likely to quit if the gaming remains stupid, I imagine. Really, the 10 wis isn't too important, what's important is that she figures out that roleplaying is the name of the game, keeps up any good habits, and doesn't pick up bad ones. For the character, a wis bonus item would take care of most of the sting of the 10 dex, but I bet the cleric would steal that item first. Maybe give out 2 of them? But you have to deal with the others before you can help her.

The cleric and samurai seem a bit like munchkins or power gamers, but thankfully they don't seem too skilled at it. To wean them from this habit, you have to do a few things. One, make sure not to kill them if at all possible. That just gives them the chance to try a new build, and cuts their emotional investment in their own characters. Two, try to get them to invest themselves more in their own characters, in as indirect a manner as you can devise. If possible, try to get them to write a backstory for their characters, or trick them into it. Try to stress that a backstory is a free opportunity for them to come up with as much liquid awesome to inject into their characters as they can imagine. Though it's a bit tough to give a level 3 character a backstory that makes them some kind of big **** hero.

Also, for the three characters listed above, try to invent some quests that connect to their past (such as there is) as much as possible. If they see that their actions have an effect on the world, they're less liable to try antisocial things (usually). Once they've started identifying with their own characters, you can practically sit back and relax, most of your DM work is done.

Be sure to remind the cleric about who Pelor is, but don't punish him yet for ignorance.

Also, for the samurai, an upgrade to a fighter is probably a good idea anyway, just make sure he keeps the same feat tree he had already, and downplay this alteration if possible. The PrC is less of an issue (most groups don't get that high level). But you don't want the group to think you'll just fold on any issue, make sure to argue with the Samurai, and examine that PrC if you can to watch for surprises. Make sure the Samurai *thinks* he had to wheedle like a *** to get the fighter, and be sure to seem annoyed about it.

As for "Dwight", that's a tough nut to crack. Maybe talking to him would resolve your problem, but it could also tip your hand too early. Have some cops, who are under the employ of a country (well known for having a kickbutt wizard in said country) investigate some commoner murders, if applicable. Let him make some saves for scrying once in a while, make him a bit paranoid. Send some zealous clerics or paladins against him, accusing him of being on the edge of evil. If the paladin or cleric try to help, their powers don't plain work during the combat. Try to impress upon "Dwight" that chaotic neutral is usually more uncaring rather than bipolar. Also, try to tell him that very little evil is made up for by a ton of good. If the cops get "Dwight", make the penalty for the murder a quest for atonement, or a fine, not the death penalty or something. Don't let him get you down, remember, your 5 hours is a chance to (virtually) hunt the most dangerous game... man. And if he doesn't take the hint, well, there's no spell that protects you from any number of things...

[BRC]

I'm going to reccomend Knockout gas, followed by intense Brainwashing treatments.

Dwight sounds like he's just being a jerk. I say send some powerful bounty hunters after him, considering the crime sheet he has doubtless built up so far.

The Cleric sounds like he needs a good smacking with the divine stick.
Step One: Out of the game, explain to him what being a cleric of pelor is all about.
If this dosn't work
Step 2: in-game he has a dream where a solar (or somthing) appears to him and warns him to get back in line.
If this dosn't work either
Step 3: Pelor pulls the power plug, no more divine magic for mister cleric until he repents.


The Samurai, there's nothing wrong with liking a character type, so you can't really punish him for it. However, if you really must, two words: Rust Monster
Also, Demand he show you all the feats and stuff that he has. All of it, For all you know he could be making stuff up.

The Paladin: Take her aside, tell her more about being a paladin, then give her a chance to re-work her character so she can cast spells (Remember, stats are abstract IC, so you don't need to justify this in-game.)


In short, Dwight and Samurai are walking all over you while Cleric and Pally wallow in ignorance.

[F.L.]

Speak with Dead

Commune

A few simple divination spells can track down most killers... Know them, and use them to track down disruptive characters.

Also, I'd suggest that you take time to talk to your newer players and explain why you give the advice that you give. Such as advising that Wis is almost always more important for a Paladin than Int.

Double-check with your would-be powergamer (he thinks he's doing it, but really isn't) and problem child to make sure that they not only understand the rules as written, but the rules as you intend to apply them, the difference and the importance.

Politely ask your former DM why he chooses to act in a way that he wouldn't want players in his game to act. If he gives an unsatisfactory reason, or if he insists that he wants players who act that way, having his character get in the crossfire of a high-level magical duel between chaotic wizards might explain that his sort of chaotic behavior really can't be allowed unchecked...

Remember, it's your table, your setting, but you have to get them to buy into it enough to make it worthwhile for everyone.

Blast, ninja'd. And as for the chaotic wizards idea, you could try the same with Slaads or such. An idea I'd had recently, was to have the players encounter a group of slaads about to complete a ritual to finish up an epic spell. Said spell would conjure up 2,473,119,318,004,552 watermelons and a deck chair in a square tower 1200x1200 watermelons wide at the base, which would immediately collapse and kill everyone in a many miles wide radius in the resulting concussive wave of watermelons. The slaads defending the ritual would engage in... unorthodox attacks. Walking up to the players, and licking them in the nose. Throwing clods of dirt at them. Wielding assorted sailing implements like wheels, anchors, rope. Deliberately provoking every attack of opportunity players have. Make sure to have enough slaad to succeed at the ritual, and when the TPK has been pulled off, politely inquire if the player will continue being CN, as you'll have proved that you can do CN better.

[snoopy13a]

I'm going to reccomend Knockout gas, followed by intense Brainwashing treatments.

Dwight sounds like he's just being a jerk. I say send some powerful bounty hunters after him, considering the crime sheet he has doubtless built up so far.

Yeah, logically any sort of government is going to chase after murderers. Use overwhelming force and have his character either killed in battle or captured and executed. Then he can re-roll a new character. If his new character is another murderer then rinse and repeat.

[Da King]

@Saph: I went through a lot of work to start DMing, so 2 and 3 are best here. I'd enjoy DMing, if it wasn't for Dwight and Samurai.

@sonofzeal: smacking of Dwight is coming very close. XP penalties should shut him up very quickly. Samurai is using a custom character sheet, and looking at it, I realized he has no idea how TWF works, and barely understands basic rules.
The thing about the paladin is that Samurai convinced her to swap int and wisdom for one reason, which was to get ONE more language. You can simply spend two skill points to do that, but he somehow thought losing the ability to cast spells was worth it. In short, the low wis has nothing to do with role-playing (she isn't very used to role-playing yet) its just to get one more language.

@LoneGamer: he's already annoyed the city guards, so this will likely happen.

@Sucrose:What's a munchkin? this has bothered me for a while. I see the term used and I don't know what it means.

@F.L: the cleric Is definitely not a power gamer. He's completly new, and doesn't know enough to do so. Did you mean Dwight, by any chance?
I love the slaad idea though, very tempted to try it...

@Bloddyredcommie: *ding* one rust monster, coming up. I can't believe I didn't think of that.

[F.L.]

@F.L: the cleric Is definitely not a power gamer. He's completly new, and doesn't know enough to do so. Did you mean Dwight, by any chance?
I love the slaad idea though, very tempted to try it...

Time to inundate you with more text.

I falsely assumed that, as a gamer (you reference TES:IV Oblivion) the cleric was less into getting into a character than into stats. He's not a power gamer (as I've had that pointed out to me recently... ) but may be headed for munchkinville if you don't head him off. As you described both the Samurai and the Cleric as less interested in their character's role, I grouped them both together.

The definition of a munchkin is very complicated. At its worst, a munchkin is a player who is uninterested in the game, but very interested in killing things, dominance, and +53 modifiers. But only if said modifier is in a skill related to killing things. Munchkins seek to take all control of the game from the DM by using a combination of rules, direct cheating, and psychological manipulation.

As for the slaad idea, use it if you like, go nuts. In fact, going nuts is required to use it.

[Behold_the_Void]

The Cleric and Paladin especially may still be salvageable. I heartily advise against doing something to screw them over.

Looking over the Samurai's stuff and correcting his gross misinterpretation of the rules is a good place to start. Law enforcement officials should take care of the lawbreakers, but honestly, I think this may work a bit better.

Start over.

Get a general overview of your world reasonably fleshed out. Make sure it comes with a major city you can start in and base out of for at least the first few levels, as well as some kind of geopolitical situation that they can draw background hooks from.

Give a copy of this to each of your players, along with allowed sources (my general practice with this is a bit odd since I constantly make minor shifts and adjustments to rules and pick and choose what I allow and don't allow). Something good to do here is say "other material available on request, show me what you want to use beforehand and I'll tell you if you may or may not. This is a big rule for me, I'm all for people using options I don't have access to but feel I have the right to deny them. Should someone do this, I usually take a look at the rule or ability and have them make a pitch as to why they want it, this can also help develop characters.

Also on this document include any major houserules you're making.

Bring all the players together and sit them down and have them build their characters together, while discussing it with each other. This is a great way to build a good, possibly functional party. Encourage discussion of backgrounds, alignment, the possibilities of the characters having known each other beforehand or not, common ground, etc. This encourages them to build a character, not a stat block. It has the added benefit of allowing you to look over each and every build to ensure that there's no foul play.

Also, I know many disagree with this but I honestly suggest starting them at level 1. Fragility aside, it's a great way to slowly break new players into the game by introducing them to their abilities in a piecemeal fashion.

[Titanium Dragon]

Here are my recommendations:

1) The cleric and the paladin just seem like they need a little guidance; they don't sound like problem players at all, they just don't seem to "get it". I'd try to be helpful rather than stern with them.
As for the Pelor issue, ask the cleric player how he sees his cleric. Does he see him as exemplifying certain traits? He doesn't HAVE to be a cleric of Pelor, after all; if he DOES want to be that way, that's cool, but if he has different ideas about the personality of his character, maybe you could ask him if he'd be interested in changing deities?
With the paladin, as someone else said, if she wants to rework her character let her, otherwise let her be and don't worry about it too much. I'd be more concerned with encouraging roleplay than anything else.

2) Don't try to force the samurai player to do something else. Samurai is a horrible class, and frankly, I don't think its a big deal if he switches to fighter, don't really worry about it. If he likes dual wielding, that's -fine- - just make sure he and you know the rules for it.
As for changing classes, tell him that as a rule you don't allow stuff you haven't had the opportunity to read, and you probably don't have a problem with it but need to see it to try and incorporate it and such and make sure it IS appropriate to the campaign.

3) The wizard sounds like the biggest problem here. Talk to him and ask him how he'd like this kind of behavior in HIS campaigns. It sounds like you were a bit disruptive as well, so try to make your peace with him if he really was angry over what you did with your last campaign. Try to settle things OOC, and if the character does something stupid IC, feel free to kill him off - but NOT as punishment to the player. If he dies IC, it should be for IC reasons, not due to OOC conflict.

Make it clear that you feel his behavior is ruining the campaign, and tell him why, and tell him that something needs to change - either you aren't going to be able to keep running the campaign or he needs to leave or change his behavior.

But don't try to railroad the characters; let them play the characters they want to play, rather than the characters YOU want them to play. If someone is being Chaotic Stupid and disrupting the game, feel free to kill them off, but don't do it as OOC punishment - it should be IC, and generally going around killing random people will get you attention.

[Da King]

@ F.L: Yeah, I'm worried he will become a powergamer, he never roleplays and reads my D&D books every night(he's my younger brother). I think he is going through everything, looking for what is most broken. He has a "shopping list" containing all the magic items and equipment he plans to buy, and I personally believe he has his entire character planned out from levels 1-20. Being Clericzilla is probably why he chose this class, but but luckily he doesn't know enough to implement it yet. I think he and batman are going to be very dangerous at higher levels. Thank you very much for the munchkin definition, it matches what I have heard so far.

[Draz74]

3. Forget about the story and start doing whatever the hell you want. Sometimes it just isn't worth trying to play kindergarten teacher. Some players are permanently stuck on Chaotic Stupid, and neither you, I, nor anyone else can do a thing about it. If you have a group where the majority are this way, it's usually not worth the effort to try and change them. So just do whatever you find amusing. (You don't have to kill all the PCs in ridiculous and over-the-top ways, such as by having them discover Cthullu hiding in their toilet, but it's recommended.) Oddly, you'll often find that the players will enjoy this more than you trying to guide them through an epic quest.

I know it might be kind of a let-down when you are trying to work hard on a real, epic high fantasy story, but frankly this is the best advice you've gotten. It sounds like Batman's player might calm down after a couple adventures in this style as "revenge" on you. And when you play this kind of campaign, balance issues just aren't an issue.

Oh, and FYI, you can read about the Samurai's weird feats here and here.

[Da King]

Oh, and FYI, you can read about the Samurai's weird feats here and here.

Thanks! Apparently I was either lied to or the Samurai needs to learn to read because he said that it does d6 damage and also affects evil outsiders.
Looking at the player's stats, I think every single one of them cheated on their rolls. Here are their stats, and the point buy cost to have those stats.
The stats are in the order of STR,DEX,CON,INT,WIS,CHA.
Samurai: 18,13,16,13,12,17 = 53 point buy
Dwight T. Barnes: 10,14,16,18,16,13 = 49 point buy
Cleric: 16,12,16,10,17,16 = 49 point buy
Paladin: 18,10,14,15,11,17 = 48 point buy (huh, so 11 wis, not 10, same bonus though...)

Normal point buy is 25 points, please note that every character has an 18.

[Ascension]

My goodness... When I read the part about the samurai being an anti-undead nightlight I thought he was just making stuff up. It actually exists! That's an awfully high CHA requirement for a melee type, though.

[Solo]

The solution to all your problems is outlined here

Build the most powerful sorcerer imaginable and proceed to off the offending party members.

Said sorcerer is hunting begger killers.

I will give you a build. Just tell me what level the rest of the party is, and I'll churn out an equal level sorcerer that will probably be able to solve your problems.

[Artanis]

Thanks! Apparently I was either lied to or the Samurai needs to learn to read because he said that it does d6 damage and also affects evil outsiders.
Looking at the player's stats, I think every single one of them cheated on their rolls. Here are their stats, and the point buy cost to have those stats.
The stats are in the order of STR,DEX,CON,INT,WIS,CHA.
Samurai: 18,13,16,13,12,17 = 53 point buy
Dwight T. Barnes: 10,14,16,18,16,13 = 49 point buy
Cleric: 16,12,16,10,17,16 = 49 point buy
Paladin: 18,10,14,15,11,17 = 48 point buy (huh, so 11 wis, not 10, same bonus though...)

Normal point buy is 25 points, please note that every character has an 18.

Wait wait wait...you let them roll stats out of your sight?

Isn't that like, the first thing they teach DMs NOT to do?

[dman11235]

Also keep in mind that they are exalted feats. And as such require the rest of the BoED to work properly (heavy RP requirements). I know that by now the samurai has lost those feats. And the whole slaying hobos would have lost any Pelor cleric's power by now, and any exalted character their exalted status.

Bottom line: only allow content you can see, and only allow content you are comfortable allowing. Also, your players are being quite jerkish at the moment, particularly the batman and samurai. I know someone like batman (I swear he is just like that), and he is quite annoying at this sort of thing. You also need to tell him that chaos/=randomly killing people. Randomly killing people is C/E at best, and C/Vile at worst (BoVD, counterpart to BoED, but 3.0. I use a 5 tiered alignment system: vile<evil<N<good<exalted). Chaotic is also not doing whatever you want. Well, it is, but it's still bound by your other alignment. CoP is acting N/E, and as such would lose Pelor's blessing. Samurai isn't an alignment due to lack of a character. There is only stats. Same with paladin. You should work with CoP and paladin the most, they seem the sanest, though the least experienced. The other two need a talking to.

[Nohwl]

maybe they have a different system of rolling up characters than you do? i know one dm who told me to reroll anything under 10 when building my character.

[Raum]

Don't quit just for this...if you enjoy the game and enjoy GMing keep playing. Just decide up front to let Dwight (and others) dig their own hole...as deep as they want. But remember, it is a hole and he's digging from the inside...have a helpful guard or three fill it in on top of him.

And insists that because he is "chaotic" he can do whatever he wants. For example, he fed an innocent beggar (he did pay him about 2gp first) poisoned meat(without telling it it was poisoned, beggar fails sense motive check) just to see what the poison would do.

Assuming there weren't any witnesses, the city guard has a dead body to investigate. Most likely an obviously poisoned dead body. There are probably lots of clues for them to follow up on, but a local temple to the god of Justice may get involved also...Speak with Dead can be such a useful spell.

Next, we have the Samurai. He plays a Samurai for some reason, and only really cares about how much damage he can do in a round. He also has some wierd feat that makes him glow and do constant damage to undead/evil outsiders. Both the class and this feat are from books I don't own and that he has not lent to me yet. Then, all of a sudden he says out of game that he doesn't want to play a samurai anymore, because it won't let him get into some wierd prestige class. (dread commando, I think) "No, I want to play a fighter, and I will dual wield bastard swords!" he says. I don't know why he does stuff like this, and I'd like him to try something else(he ALWAYS plays fighter-types who dual wield, to the point of obsession almost)

On to the cleric. He knows the rules well, but this is his first time playing D&D and he should role-play his character more (If you are reading this Mr. Cleric, that means stop helping batman kill beggars, you're a cleric of PELOR)

Why is Pelor granting spells to an unrepentant evildoer? Note, I'm not saying to change his alignment. I'm saying take away one of his highest level spells until he atones. Take away a second for the next evil action or inaction. If he gets down to no spells he probably should change his alignment.

As for the samurai, why does he want to change characters? Is he bored? Is he not having fun with the current character? If it's the latter I'd let him change...we play to have fun after all. If the former it's time to challenge him...set up something to play to his strengths and get him involved in the character.

Finally the Paladin. She is ultra-new to the game, doesn't know the rules all that well yet, but that's okay. Unfortunately, the player of the samurai convinced her to reverse her intelligence (10) and her wisdom (15) so she could get some obscure code/sign-language from another book I don't own. Hooray, a Paladin who can't cast spells and she doesn't even know how bad this is. "well you can just by stat increasing items to fix that" says the samurai when I point this out. Problem is, magic items are supposed to make you better, not make up for gaping holes in your character build.

Another piece of advice, know what powers / abilities your players have.

[Behold_the_Void]

Really advising the reset at this point. Another good thing about cooperative character building is stats are all rolled right in front of you.

[quiet1mi]

1 word that usually sets any party straight....
Inevitables
yes those insane things from the plane of law if Batman wants to kill people and break the law he will have to suffer the consequences, if that is too much send higher level bounty hunters after him... i like the idea of denying the cleric spells until he behaves or atonement... normally this is very heavy handed but if there is an omelet of Rp that needs to be made you gotta crack players.

as for the paliden and the fighter/samurai twf person i recomend just making sure they are fallowing the rules and don't let them use things that you don't know, don't have or don't have access to... a player tried this on me so in return i decided to do the same and i counted it as breaking rule0 and siced an Inevitable on him and it told him that he was breaking the law of the cosmos and most atone by the magics of transmutation (make a new character from things you have) or die!

as long as you kindly explain to the person that palidens recieve spells but only if they have a certain wisdom... and they just want to play a paliden with little wisdom and high int that is fine... look at miko she was a low wisdom paliden and she still managed to beat on the baddies

[Woot Spitum]

Your players sound as if they want to play a medieval fantasy version of grand theft auto. Maybe you should discuss starting a chaotic evil style campaign, just to get this out of your players systems. Or, if you want keep your current campaign, get your players out of the cities and into the dungeons. A simple way to do this would to have the party arrested for (ironically enough) a crime they didn't commit, and have them banished to either an unexplored continent or even another plane of existence. Let them struggle with an inhospitable environment and lack of magic item shops for awhile before giving them a chance to redeem themselves. As for dealing with chaotic players, put traps on everything. It really cuts down on the randomness.

[GammaPaladin]

@ F.L: Yeah, I'm worried he will become a powergamer, he never roleplays and reads my D&D books every night(he's my younger brother). I think he is going through everything, looking for what is most broken. He has a "shopping list" containing all the magic items and equipment he plans to buy, and I personally believe he has his entire character planned out from levels 1-20. Being Clericzilla is probably why he chose this class, but but luckily he doesn't know enough to implement it yet. I think he and batman are going to be very dangerous at higher levels. Thank you very much for the munchkin definition, it matches what I have heard so far.

I'm suddenly curious how old your players are, because this could explain much.

[Randel]

If putting the police and inevitables against Dwight doesn't seem to work... introduce a powerful lich who is disguised as an old man... maybe a little mundane makeup and he just looks like he's a starving hobo. If Chaotic stupid wants to beat up elderly folks then he can try his hand at one who is an immortal evil mastermind. If he gets on the Liches bad side, then his new enemy can start directing the authorities against him while framing him for his own crimes.

[Kioran]

Blast, ninja'd. And as for the chaotic wizards idea, you could try the same with Slaads or such. An idea I'd had recently, was to have the players encounter a group of slaads about to complete a ritual to finish up an epic spell. Said spell would conjure up 2,473,119,318,004,552 watermelons and a deck chair in a square tower 1200x1200 watermelons wide at the base, which would immediately collapse and kill everyone in a many miles wide radius in the resulting concussive wave of watermelons. The slaads defending the ritual would engage in... unorthodox attacks. Walking up to the players, and licking them in the nose. Throwing clods of dirt at them. Wielding assorted sailing implements like wheels, anchors, rope. Deliberately provoking every attack of opportunity players have. Make sure to have enough slaad to succeed at the ritual, and when the TPK has been pulled off, politely inquire if the player will continue being CN, as you'll have proved that you can do CN better.

Awesome. Plain awesome. The best way to TPK a bunch of chaotic stupid players..........

[Tsotha-lanti]

Dwight T. Barnes: What you can't do that! (in response to asking him what he thinks of changing a bag of devouring (note: this is out of game, between sessions) to an NPC under my control)
DM: Yes I can, I'm the DM and I can change what I need to according to to rule 0
Dwight T. Barnes: But its rule 0! therefore it has no value!

I don't actually understand what's going on here, so I can't comment...

And insists that because he is "chaotic" he can do whatever he wants. For example, he fed an innocent beggar (he did pay him about 2gp first) poisoned meat(without telling it it was poisoned, beggar fails sense motive check) just to see what the poison would do. Usually he's a good friend and doesn't do crap like this, but he's basically making me irritated for five hours straight every time we get together for D&D.

So he's Chaotic Evil - a villain, not a hero. It's too late to disallow this, so adjust accordingly, and remember that most game worlds should have in-built systems that punish those who don't obey the rules. (It's called "society"; sometimes it's called "religion", but you tend to get to pick yours to suit your particular philosophy in most fantasy worlds.)

That said, you also need to talk to him, like an adult. (Although I have no clue if any of you are, in fact, adults. Your players don't sound very mature, at least.)

He also has some wierd feat that makes him glow and do constant damage to undead/evil outsiders. Both the class and this feat are from books I don't own and that he has not lent to me yet.

Why are you allowing anyone to use material you don't have access to? That's just asking for trouble. All sourcebooks aside the core books should obviously be subject to DM review and explicit approval. (Heck, you're even expected to exercise explicit disapproval over core stuff when you feel like it's necessary.)

On to the cleric. He knows the rules well, but this is his first time playing D&D and he should role-play his character more (If you are reading this Mr. Cleric, that means stop helping batman kill beggars, you're a cleric of PELOR)

Okay, I don't want to insult you, but you really seem to have no clue how to DM. This cleric should have lost all of his powers already; he's obviously Evil, and absolutely breaking Pelor's dogma. It's just that easy to reign in clerics. Their gods take a real, active interest in the world, and will punish wrongdoers. (Heck, Pelor might also punish the first guy, since these two are in cahoots.)

So, what do you think? How I should I deal with my players?

You should talk to them like you're all mature people who are trying to play a game together in order to have fun. If some of them are unable to work with that, you should kick them the **** out and start over with the ones who are willing to play nice with other children. You'll enjoy the game a lot more.

Don't start trying to punish them in-game - talk to them, explain the problem, kick out the ones that insist on making trouble and messing with everyone's game, and then start consistently enforcing versimilitude and the rules when you do play.

Oh, and FYI, you can read about the Samurai's weird feats here and here.

Excellent news, Da King - the Samurai has already lost those feats by associating with the evil Wizard and fallen evil Cleric of Pelor. Exalted feats require you to maintain Exalted status (which requires a campaign built to accommodate Exalted characters; never allow Exalted stuff in a non-Exalted game, basically).