Books allowed?

[lumberofdabeast]

This is a topic mainly for the DMs out there. What books do you allow in your games? What books don't you allow, and why? For the sake of discussion, I'll start things off. I allow the following in my games:

Core 3
Unearthed Arcana
Expanded Psionics Handbook
Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords
Book of Exalted Deeds (DM only)
Book of Vile Darkness (DM only)

First off, I'm disputing adding the Spell Compendium and the Magic Item Compendium to that list. Second off, I'm considering making the BoED and BoVD player-usable, too. Thoughts? Own lists? Fan service?

[Starsinger]

First off, I'm disputing adding the Spell Compendium and the Magic Item Compendium to that list. Second off, I'm considering making the BoED and BoVD player-usable, too. Thoughts? Own lists? Fan service?

I allow all 7 completes, as well as the ones on your list... Well with the exception of Book of Ed and Book of VD as I think they're both stupid, stupid books. I also am partial to the Races of books, as well as Arcana Unearthed, very good book that.

[The Extinguisher]

If you can find it, you can use it.

At least, thats the precedent so far.

[ColdBrew]

All WotC published books. Setting specific flavor will be changed to match the campaign, but crunch can be taken from pretty much anywhere. All subject to my approval, of course, but I don't deny very much.

[Telonius]

Anything in any book, internet forum, or homebrew; all subject to DM approval. If I think it's unbalancing/gamebreaking/distracting/stupid, no. (Note that I disallow some things in core for this reason). If I think it fits the character concept, generally yes.

[SilverClawShift]

My DM is more than willing to permit just about any material we want to play with, but that's largely because he knows we're all playing as a collective and none of us are trying to do anything ridiculous.

That said, we get the most use out of Heroes of Horror, Tome of Magic, and the Book of Vile Darkness. We usually leaf through the Complete series for feats or prestige classes though.

Our DM himself is an unpredictable madman of a creative genius, and throws material/monsters at us from anywhere and everywhere. It helps that he's got a borderline photographic memory.

[Kurald Galain]

I'd allow any WOTC book the players come up with, reserving the right to ban a handful of specific things that are known to be cheesy, and anything related to psionics, as that simply doesn't exist in my world.

However, surprisingly, I also ban the monstrous manual. Why is that? First, by not using monsters from that book myself, I avoid the "encyclopedia player" problem, who will cite a monster's stats at sight, from memory. Second, it makes summons and in particular polymorph considerably less cheesy.

[Lucyfur]

I allow all 7 completes, as well as the ones on your list... Well with the exception of Book of Ed and Book of VD as I think they're both stupid, stupid books. I also am partial to the Races of books, as well as Arcana Unearthed, very good book that.

quoted for truth

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

However, surprisingly, I also ban the monstrous manual. Why is that? First, by not using monsters from that book myself, I avoid the "encyclopedia player" problem, who will cite a monster's stats at sight, from memory. Second, it makes summons and in particular polymorph considerably less cheesy.

Um? How exactly does that work? So I guess Druids can't Wildshape or have companions. Um. And then what? Summon Monster Spells don't actually summon anything?

You don't make them less cheesy, you just made them cease to exist.

[Kurald Galain]

So I guess Druids can't Wildshape or have companions.

You guess wrong.

Um. And then what? Summon Monster Spells don't actually summon anything?

You guess wrong again.


It means players don't get to cherrypick from thousands of monsters. It doesn't mean they get nothing.

[Zincorium]

Um? How exactly does that work? So I guess Druids can't Wildshape or have companions. Um. And then what? Summon Monster Spells don't actually summon anything?

You don't make them less cheesy, you just made them cease to exist.

Er, the monstrous manual is NOT the only source of monsters. It's just the one that everybody and their dog knows by heart.

All setting books, the monster manual 2-5, and many miscellaneous books all contain official monsters, and there is a host of cool critters in the homebrew section of this forum.

Composing an alternate list of wildshapes, summons, and animal companions isn't too hard.

[ColdBrew]

It means players don't get to cherrypick from thousands of monsters. It doesn't mean they get nothing.

Then what do they pick from? The few monsters published in other sources? Your list of homebrew creatures? Random roll on a table?

All setting books, the monster manual 2-5, and many miscellaneous books all contain official monsters, and there is a host of cool critters in the homebrew section of this forum.

I don't see the point of banning the first MM and leaving the others. It hardly makes a dent in players' ability to "cherrypick" their forms and summons.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Anything you have you can use, but if it's game-breaking I cancel it and have you retrain. Although I ban the BoEF(to protect my sanity) and one player can't use the BoVD because it gives him ideas.

[SamTheCleric]

PHB 1 and 2
DMG 1 and 2
All Completes
All Races
Fiend Folio
Book of Exhalted Deeds
Book of Vile Darkness
Spell Compendium
Magic Item Compendium
Fiendish Codex 1 and 2
Lords of Madness
Libris Mortus
Tome of Battle

...

It may seem like a lot... but mostly the players stick to the Completes, Races and PHB1/2 (though any non core prestige class has to be approved before a level is taken, to make sure you qualify for it outside of the standard prereqs)... it's the DM that pulls out very rare tactics from books we don't own that suprise the begeebus out of us... and we love it.

[Tsotha-lanti]

I allow all books (and own like 90% of WotC's D&D books), but every single feat, spell, prestige class, or the like that comes from outside the PHB has to be specifically allowed by me. I generally only disallow things that don't work in the campaign context, or that are absolutely freaking cheesy (no shivering touch).

As a DM, I use all the books I have when I craft monsters, NPCs, dungeons, challenges, and any thing else - in order to keep the players on their toes and guessing about what they're facing. (They know the MM monsters by heart at this point, and can usually tell what's about to attack them ahead of time. "There's rubble on the floor..." "Get ready, it's a bulette!" "... you *****.")

[WhiteHarness]

PHB 1 & 2
DMG 1 & 2
Races of Stone
Monster Manual 1
Unearthed Arcana

Using anything else makes the game too confusing and introduces elements I find laughably stupid. And I would never, ever, ever, use, or let my players use any of the ridiculously vicious crap in the Book of Vile Darkness. Just bringing it to our weekly game would be possible grounds for expulsion from the group.

[FlyMolo]

If you can find it, you can use it.

At least, thats the precedent so far.

This works for me too. So far I had one problem player who really felt the need to powergame, but he had such personality conflicts with the rest of the group that I had to kill him off and he left. Normally, I wouldn't do that, but 3-4 players threatened to leave if he didn't. One actually did, but then returned.

That was scary.

[ZekeArgo]

Just bringing it to our weekly game would be possible grounds for expulsion from the group.

Wow, great way to squash someones creativity just because he'd want to use a sourcebook he purchased.

[Tsotha-lanti]

And I would never, ever, ever, use, or let my players use any of the ridiculously vicious crap in the Book of Vile Darkness. Just bringing it to our weekly game would be possible grounds for expulsion from the group.

So what's the matter with you people, then?

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

You guess wrong.


You guess wrong again.


It means players don't get to cherrypick from thousands of monsters. It doesn't mean they get nothing.

Way to be as vague as possible in an incredibly annoying way?

If you don't allow anything in the MM then the very short list of possible companions becomes 0, the Summon Monster spells summon only monsters in the MM. Therefore, neither of those things exist. Wildshape is still open to about 400 billion options, so is polymorph, but I assumed you would do something about that since you didn't want them "cherry picking"

I can understand not clarifying the specifics in your original post, but in your reply would it actually be that much harder to say:

"I make my own custom Summon Monster lists." Instead of just saying "WRONG! They can Summon Monsters even though the list of Summonable Monsters is entirely contained inside of a book I don't allow!"

[Tsotha-lanti]

Way to be as vague as possible in an incredibly annoying way?

If you don't allow anything in the MM then the very short list of possible companions becomes 0, the Summon Monster spells summon only monsters in the MM. Therefore, neither of those things exist. Wildshape is still open to about 400 billion options, so is polymorph, but I assumed you would do something about that since you didn't want them "cherry picking"

Plenty of books add things to the summon lists and the animal companion list, and it seems quite reasonable to assume that a DM banning the MM would go so far as to construct alternative lists?

[Blanks]

Tricky...

We mostly use only PHB 1, but if you find something (or just homebrew it) cool that fits your character concept we try it out. Everything, including PHB is "By DM permission".

Normally I allow with the caveat that if it turns out to be broken we do a realityshift (remove it and gain something else)

[Telonius]

Oh yes, the MM for summoning... in order to summon a monster, the character has to either have encountered it within the game, or succeed on an appropriate knoweldge check to summon it. DC = 10 + monster's HD + [(Monster Manual number - 1)*5]. The DC on a 5-HD aberration From MM3 would be 25 in Dungeoneering.

A summoner can have a creature described to them by another character, but such a summoning has a 15% chance of mishap (86-95, summon a similar but weaker creature; 96-100 spell fizzles).

[Kyeudo]

I allow nearly anything I own, since I can figure out how to take down anything my players can throw together with enough time. That means I allow:

Spoiler

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Player's Handbook
Player's Handbook 2
Dungeon Master's Guide
Dungeon Master's Guide 2
Monster Manuel
Monster Manuel 4
Expanded Psionics Handbook
Magic of Incarnum
Tome of Magic
Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords
Complete Warrior
Complete Divine
Complete Arcane
Complete Adventurer
Complete Psionic
Complete Mage
Complete Champion
Complete Scoundrel
Races of the Wild
Races of Stone
Races of Destiny
Races of the Dragon
Races of Eberron
Eberron Campaign Setting
Dragonmarked
Sharn, City of Towers
Secrets of Xen'drik
Secrets of Sarlona
Magic of Eberron
Faiths of Eberron
Five Nations
Explorer's Handbook
Player's Guide to Eberron
Sandstorm
Frostburn
Stormwrack
Dungeonscape
Libris Mortis
Lords of Madness
Draconomicon
Heroes of Battle

The only books that I own where I have to consider material on a case by case basis is the Forgotton Realms Campaign Setting, Unearthed Arcana, and Savage Species, mostly due to campaign flavor reasons. Shadow Weave users just don't fit in very well in Eberron.

[sonofzeal]

"Anything I've read, or that I can read before play starts. Case-by-case exceptions/nerfs for things that are excessively powerful."

I encourage the Complete series (except for Complete Champion, which is mostly either broken or just plain poorly written), Tome of Battle (but only if the party lvl 8+; otherwise it's far too good), Psionics, Binding, etc. I tend away from Incarnum just because, in my opinion, it's overly complicated and not all that useful if you're doing it right but potentially ridiculous if you're doing it wrong.

I'm also a CO Board member, so any builds I've seen there that come up in my game are likely to get the axe.

Otherwise... yeah, anything goes as long as they can get me the book.

[brian c]

I allow pretty much everything; never played with Incarnum or Tome of Magic stuff, and I dont know the rules so I'd be hesitant but I have enough familiarity with psionics to allow it. Otherwise, I allow players to use whatever they like, but I guard against broken combos and broken classes. I wouldn't allow Planar Sheperd or anything needlessly complicated, nothing setting-specific unless we're playing in that setting. I had a guy ask to use an ammunition enhancement from Dragon magazine once and I allowed it, but only because it was probably worse than just getting a +1 (and I told him that).

edit: also, I love ToB but I can't allow ToB and regular melee characters in the same game. Unless everyone wants to be a martial adept, then no one can be.

[Titanium Dragon]

Right now I'm running a campaign which allows any non-campaign specific WotC book (though many races are banned from play); if I run another this edition, it will have the same rules, but I'll have banned 12 classes as well as many races (the races mostly because they don't fit, though).

[valadil]

One of my groups plays Core + PHB2 + Complete + Races. The other likes to play just Core, but those of us who have played more have convinced them to let us try other things too. In both groups anything is subject to DM approval.

I'd like to see a game where players are allowed to pick from a selection of splat books. Like, you could get a complete based on your class or role and a races book based on your race. My core group mostly objects to extra books because some players don't want to read dozens of books to keep up with those of us who already know those books (although those players are more than happy to ebay rare out of print gurps expansions for their own use). I think this would solve that problem. It gives one or two extra supplemental books and stops at that. It also helps with instances of feats and abilities interacting weirdly because nobody in the dev team compared the two books they're in.

[Kurald Galain]

Way to be as vague as possible in an incredibly annoying way?

Congratulations, you just made my ignore list.

A summoner can have a creature described to them by another character, but such a summoning has a 15% chance of mishap (86-95, summon a similar but weaker creature; 96-100 spell fizzles).

Oh, nice! Can I steal that rule?

My core group mostly objects to extra books because some players don't want to read dozens of books to keep up with those of us who already know those books

Yeah, I can see that. I'm afraid that (at least imho) most D&D books aren't really worth the money, for the amount of use you'll actually draw from them (with a few notable exceptions like the TOB).

[Yahzi]

I'm starting up a campaign. Core 3 books, ver 3.0 only. Plus 2 classes I homebrewed. And about 100 pages of house rules and setting.

Really, I kind of object to the fact that I have any D&D books in my D&D game.