Ranger advice

[FireFox]

Hello, I decided to play a Human Ranger because I liked the... "fluff"?

Anyways, I plan on playing him TWF and wondered if there were any good prestige classes I could take (keeping in mind the "fluff"), could someone please point me towards one? From any of the official books. Thank you!

Some information:

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STR 15; DEX 17; CON 12; INT 14; WIS 16; CHA 10

I used one of his feats for proficiency in the bastard sword and might use the other for self-sufficency.

[Chronicled]

Eek. Good luck with that.

Best advice is to toss in some Tome of Battle levels, either Warblade or Swordsage. The Dervish PrC might work out too.

[FireFox]

To clarify a little more, I guess I want a melee prestige class that is nature related/themed. And easy for Rangers to get into, so the Bear Warrior and Nature's Warrior are out.

I've looked at those, but they don't exactly... feel right.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

There's not too much support in terms of PrCs for TWF. You'll probably want to switch int and con, and maybe drop dex. EWP Bastard Sword is sub-par, too, EWP rarely is good enough to justify spending a feat on. Self-sufficient falls into the same trap as all of the skill-boosting feats, namely that it becomes less useful at higher levels. I don't recommend ToB, if only because you seem new to the game and that's rather complex.
Fix:
Take a one-level dip in monk for wis-to-ac and flurry
Short sword/longsword fighting
Take the various riding combat feats and kill stuff from the back of a wolf(I highly recommend this)

Do as many of these as you want to and listen to the others who post here and you'll be fine.

[FireFox]

I have decided that I value Roleplaying more than actually living through the game and have taken that (partly) into account with my abilities: DEX and WIS get the highest because they are main to Rangers, STR comes next (really for the bastard sword though), and I put INT over Con solely because of the backstory/Roleplaying concept.

What feats would you suggest in place of them? mounted combat (from what I've seen) seems rather complex as well. And don't youlose monk specials if you are chaotic?

Would my backstory help, seeing as how I am formating my build to it?

Oh, what about King ofthe Wild?

[tyckspoon]

You don't lose the Monk abilities, just the ability take more levels in Monk. But don't take Monk anyway; it does just about nothing for you. You can't flurry with normal weapons, and being a Ranger gives you the ability to wear light armor, so wear a chain shirt. In the event that you survive long enough for your Dex + Wis to beat +8 (4 shirt, 4 Dex limit of shirt) you can get the AC ability from buying a Monk's Belt.

[Nermy]

For two-weapon fighting you could consider the Bloodclaw Master from Tome of Battle. It has a feral theme to it, so it would meet your "natural" fluff requirement while giving you some neat two-weapon fighting maneuvers to use. You'd either need a level of swordsage/warblade to get in, or you can just take the Martial Study feat a few times.

[Chronos]

A druid can be just as much of a nature-oriented warrior as a ranger is. More so, actually, once you get Wildshape. But it sounds like you want to be Chaotic Good, which isn't allowed for druids (you'd have to settle for NG or CN).

Another option, there's a variant of the ranger that gives up the Combat Style feats to instead gain fast movement like a barbarian and Wildshape like a druid. This is already a stronger choice than either of the two standard combat styles, but it also qualifies you for several prestige classes (the Nature's Warrior and Bear Warrior you mentioned, and also Master of Many Forms).

[Frosty]

You want a class compatible with a nature setting? I don't have a prestige class for you, but please multiclass into Scout for anywhere from 3 to 5 levels and take Swift Hunter. This will give you actual damage (and even more skill points) along with trapfinding.

[FireFox]

I specifically prefer Rangers to Druids like I prefer Paladins to LG Clerics. So anything Druid related is out. Is King of the Wild a good choice for a prestige class?

[Chronicled]

There's also the Wildrunner from Races of the Wild, which is a decent enough PrC if you want a continuation of the Ranger.

The problem is, TWF as a Ranger is asking to suck. Especially with a bastard sword (weapon damage is unimportant after a few levels).

[FireFox]

You want a class compatible with a nature setting? I don't have a prestige class for you, but please multiclass into Scout for anywhere from 3 to 5 levels and take Swift Hunter. This will give you actual damage (and even more skill points) along with trapfinding.

What book is scout in? And this actually sounds good, because our party has no rogue...

and to ^: My party has a bow-armed cleric and a sorceror so melee damage and fighting are actually good. I don't know much about DnD, so how is TWF bad? I am not playing to be a "powerful" character. I am playing to have fun. If I wanted to be the best, I'd have picked another class. So what are some fun PrCs to play that are compatible with my build?

[Chronicled]

What book is scout in? And this actually sounds good, because our party has no rogue...

Complete Adventurer. Here's a link to a thread about the Swift Hunter.

And for good measure, here's one for the Scout, and one for the Ranger.

[Skjaldbakka]

My favorite ranger to play is to take the two weapon fighting style, and then take archery feats, and quickdraw. I then go the bane route. A quiver with 10 each of 5 different banes is 8K, and then a bane on each shortsword. Not uber, but having either bane or favored enemy against whatever you fight is fun.

[FireFox]

Oh, I like Scout, seems great... The swift hunter seems, okay to me.

that "bane route" also appeals to me...

[Yvian]

O.K. Ranger is long on fluff [good] and short on optimization [bad]. Such is life. I am not going to dissuade you. The campaign that I run puts a emphasize on fluff.

TWF is sub-par. Are you a front line fighter? I hope not. There are a few things that can spice up TWF. Levels of rouge help to get the sneak attack. Scout can also work. I would choose Thug because that keeps my base attack high. Maybe dip into levels of barbarian. This works better at lower levels than higher levels.

Chronos is on the right track by suggesting that you dump TWF completely for something else.

Something that is fluffy and maybe sub optional would be to pick up some luck feats and/or skill tricks from Complete Scoundrel. It sounds like you are going to have a lot of skill points to play around with. Not exactly nature in fluff, but then again, not exactly anti-nature also.

[FireFox]

Chronos is on the right track by suggesting that you dump TWF completely for something else.

Myfirst level will be in Ranger, why not the second level? I like the class. At second level Rangers either get TWF or the archery stuff. My party does not need two ranged attackers whenwe only have an NPC Fighter the DM provided doing the tanking and melee-ing. As a supporting combatent, I think a TWF Ranger is good. Why am I wrong?

[Yvian]

I don't know much about DnD, so how is TWF bad? I am not playing to be a "powerful" character. I am playing to have fun.

Good for you for wanting to role play and have fun. Too often D&D is not.

Which takes us to why TWF is sub par and why meta gaming is fun. For characters that have a high base attack bonus, a great feat is Power Attack. If you are going to hit every time, you might as well shave a few plus off of your attack roll and add them to your damage roll. With THF, your power attack is doubled. With TWF, you get the bonus damage with your primary hand and not your off hand, but you get the penalties with both hands. So, when you do the math TWF gets you more attacks but THF gets you more damage. Hence TWF is sub par. Plus you need more magic - 2 good weapons instead of one.

Edit: Um, I am not suggesting you dump being a ranger. I see the attraction of playing a "nature " character. I had great fun with a halfing druid whose animal companion was a ridding dog. Lots of fun. But I am currently playing a game with a 12 ranger TWF and a barbarian 2/cleric 10 with a great axe. The cleric routinely does more damage than the ranger.

Which takes us back to Chronos. The variant ranger - where you lose TWF and other goodies for Wild Shape and Fast movement can be great fun.

Or, to put it another way, why do you like TWF? The idea of springing into battle and rolling lots of dice? Then TWf is the way to go. If you idea is to jump into battle and do lots of damage, alas the D20 system is stack against you. It can be done but it is hard.

[FireFox]

At last, I finally know why people dislike TWF so much! Another thing: my group is all new, but one has a brother who played. I don't want their first expierience of DnD to be of someone overshadowing them up the whazoo. So this is good information tokeep in mind when I play to win though, so thanks!

[Chronos]

I don't know much about DnD, so how is TWF bad?

The basic problem is that a single two-handed weapon does approximately twice as much damage as two one-handed weapons. But you don't get twice as many attacks with two weapons as you do with a two-handed weapon. To even get close, you have to take several feats (or get them as a bonus from ranger, but it's still a lost opportunity to get something else instead), and even then, you've got at least a -2 penalty to hit (more, if your weapons aren't light). If your weapons are light, meanwhile, they don't benefit from Power Attack, which is the single most important thing for increasing melee damage. Further, you can only benefit from TWF at all if you can make a full attack, which means that if the enemy starts off more than five feet away from you, you lose a big chunk of your damage.

If you're going to go for a ranger combat style, archery is much better. The damage is low (D&D doesn't support archery very well, in general), but at least you don't need to take any penalties to use it, and you still get to make full attacks when your enemy isn't right next to you. If you go the Scout route, make sure to take Greater Manyshot, which will allow you to make multiple attacks as a standard action (and thus, can be used in the same round as a move action, to get Skirmish damage).

[Chronicled]

Using Power Attack and a two-handed weapon is hardly overshadowing.

Playing a druid, no matter what, is overshadowing. Seriously, you don't even have to try, and you end up doing more than anyone else. Even if you don't take the "required" druid feat (Natural Spell).

If it's the fluff you're after, a barbarian can use the ranger fluff without difficulty--lightly armored defender of the wild, at home with nature? Sounds like a barbarian to me!

[MeklorIlavator]

Myfirst level will be in Ranger, why not the second level? I like the class. At second level Rangers either get TWF or the archery stuff. My party does not need two ranged attackers whenwe only have an NPC Fighter the DM provided doing the tanking and melee-ing. As a supporting combatent, I think a TWF Ranger is good. Why am I wrong?

Because the main way to do damage in melee is to use Two handed fighting+Power Attack, but TWF automatically stops one from doing that. Its weak amount of damage plus its lower chance of hitting means that its usually only really viable when used with a way to get large amounts of reliable extra damage, such as sneak attack(rogue), skirmish(scout), insightful strike(swashbuckler), etc. Unfortunately, the bonus from Favored enemy is usually not reliable enough for this.

[FireFox]

Well, then the two ranger combat styles are uselss to me, right? What should I do?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

1: Not useless. You can (much to the shock of some of the posters here) play an unoptimal character and still enjoy it. I recommend everyone do it at least once.

2: Re-fluff another class(barbarian, rogue, or fighter), play a scout, or play a variant ranger. All 3 of these are viable options and I can recommend any of them as good.

[Chronicled]

There is an alternative ranger fighting style that gets Power Attack and the like. I'll dig it up for you.

[Zincorium]

Well, then the two ranger combat styles are uselss to me, right? What should I do?

Two handed weapon and TWF. Yes, I know what you're thinking, "but Zincy, you can't do that!". Okay, you probably weren't using that exact phrase.

Anyway, the key here is to take one of the very large, sharp martial weapons you have proficiency with, and either put some spikes on your leather (kinky!) and use them as your off hand weapon, or take improved unarmed strike and kick people while you're swinging your greatsword/stabbing with your ranseur, depending on whether you want damage dice or reach.

The armor spikes thing is explicitly allowed by the FAQ last I checked, download a copy and show it to your DM. The unarmed strikes thing is kind of shaky, and might only be acceptable if you're a monk.

Remember that you can get masterwork and magical armor spikes, and that it's actually fairly rare for someone to insist you hand over your armor when disarming you.

[MeklorIlavator]

Well, then the two ranger combat styles are uselss to me, right? What should I do?

I'd play a barbarian, but with the fluff of a ranger. I believe that there is even a feat on the wizards website that gives one an animal companion as a cohort. Pick up a great ax/greatsword(or a bastard sword two handed so its only a martial weapon), and go to town.

Edit: Of course, playing an unoptimal character is always a possibility. Heck, one of my more enjoyable characters was a halfling warlock whose only invocation(at this point) let him use animal empath as a druid. Plus, I've played twf rangers, and while they don't do to much(depends on the game), if your mainly roleplaying, then just have fun.

[FireFox]

I know, I can probably have fun with my Ranger that way too.

Where can I find a Ranger varient? Actually, my DM might let me homebrew up something...

Thanks everyone for helping me!

Edit: triple-ninja'ed?!? I don't like the idea of barbarians doing their damage through rage...

[Sstoopidtallkid]

The online SRD.
That content was originally published in Unearthed Arcana.

[Chronicled]

If you look on CrystalKeep.com, in their D20 section is a .pdf called "Base Classes." It lists all the variants of the base classes that have been printed. At the end of the Ranger section is a list of the alternative fighting styles, one of which includes Power Attack and other helpful combat feats.

Here's the feat that gives any character an animal companion. Perfect for a barbarian with ranger fluff.